Nashville Metro Council trying to keep HCP holders out of Restaurants

[ngoeser59]

I just sent this email to every single Nashville Metro Councilmember out there. I hope you will all do the same. I have provided their contact info at the bottom of this thread.

Dear Council Member (Member Name)

My name is Nikki Goeser. My husband “Ben†was murdered right in front of me on April 2, 2009 at Jonny’s Sports Bar on Nolensville Road here in the Nashville area. I am a gun permit holder here in the State of Tennessee. I had my training, permit course, intermediate course, I had been in a shooting competition where I came in 3rd place out of about 18 people. I have since gotten my advanced certification. Because of Tennessee State Law right now, I had to leave my loaded gun out in my car the night my husband was gunned down. I understand you are all looking to keep guns out of establishments that serve alcohol. I hope you will listen to my story and reconsider your position on all of this. First, I have to be very careful what I say about the case as the man that did this deserves a fair trial. My husband can never breathe again, can never hold me again, can never hug his children or hold his grandchildren again but the man that did this gets a fair trial. He will get a fair trial. I can tell you that the man that did this to us was stalking me. That part is already out there and the police actually told the media so I can say that. I want you for one moment to think if this happened to you or someone you love. I can tell you that bad guys do not care about Laws. Every restaurant in Tennessee can put up a “No Guns Allowed†sign but you what? It will stop nothing horrible from happening. If anything, it will be a welcome invitation for people with evil intentions to come in and murder innocent people because they know there will be nobody there that can defend themselves from a gun. Bad guys will always get guns. By forcing good law abiding citizens who have been properly trained and have a right to carry permit from having that weapon on them when they sit down to eat a meal with their family…..you are creating a situation where innocent, good people are “helpless†and at the mercy of people with horrible intentions. That mad gunman could come in and kill 25 of the 50 people in that restaurant. However, if there is a good citizen in there that is properly permitted, that 25 person head count could be minimized to 0, 1, 2 maybe 3 people. The law abiding good citizen could save countless lives. I encourage you to research online the Luby’s Cafeteria Massacre (Suzanna Hupp). Please look it up under a search engine. You will learn much from this woman’s story. I have spoken with Suzanna and she was instrumental in getting gun laws changed in her state of Texas. In Texas you can now carry in establishments that serve alcohol and she says it works. There are no incidences where a permit holder has ever done anything horrible or acted irresponsibly. Permit holders will follow the law, they will not drink while carrying. It’s the bad guys you need to fear, not the good guys. When seconds count, the police are minutes away. The police got to Jonny’s Sports Bar just in enough time to find my husband’s dead body and me beside him in shock with Ben’s blood on my clothes and hands from holding him. This is reality. This happens and I am trying so hard to make people realize that this world we live in now is not some candy coated wonderland. There are evil people out there that wish to ruin it for the rest of us. I pray that nothing happens to you or your loved ones like what happened to mine. Some people will only wake up once it does. I hope you listen to what I have to say and learn from my nightmare that I am forced to deal with everyday. Please listen to me I beg you. I have attached some very important links below and I hope you will all watch every one of them. Please reconsider what you are doing. Please.

http://www.fox17.com/newsroom/top_stories/wztv_vid_5883.shtml

http://www.wkrn.com/Global/story.asp?s=10483921

http://www.wkrn.com/Global/story.asp?s=10478508

www.nranews.com

click on program archives

click on June 4th

click on Nikki Goeser

http://www.newschannel5.com/Global/story.asp?s=10478764

http://www.wsmv.com/politics/19657399/detail.html

http://wapp.capitol.tn.gov/apps/videowrapper/default.aspx?CommID=63

go to archived videos

Senate Session-38th Legislative Day June 4,

Click video

Sincerely,

Nikki Goeser

Go here to see the entire Council Roster http://www.nashville.gov/mc/council/council_roster.htm

Go here to see the pictures of the council members http://www.nashville.gov/council/council_roster.htm

Go here to see a map of the districts and verify who your council person is http://www.nashville.gov/council/districts/coun_districts.html

Go here to email the entire council or just the ones you want to contact http://www.nashville.gov/council/feedback.aspx

Information on the FORMER Metro Councilman who is pushing this to the Council; Adam Dread, Esq. Durham & Dread, PLC 1709 19th Avenue South Nashville , Tennessee 37212 (615) 252-9937 (phone) (615) 277-2277 (fax) adam@durhamanddread.comwww.durhamanddread.com

BELOW IS THE WORDING OF THE PROPOSED ORDANCE THAT WILL BE UP FOR 1ST READIN ON JUNE 9TH, 2009.

An ordinance amending Chapter 7.80 of the Metropolitan Code to prohibit firearms in any establishment with an on-premises beer permit.

WHEREAS,the Tennessee General Assembly recently overrode Governor Phil Bredesen's veto of House Bill 962 in order to allow persons with a handgun permit to bring firearms upon the premises of restaurants that sell alcoholic beverages; and

WHEREAS, Tennessee Code Annotated 57-5-106 provides that cities and class B counties, which includes the Metropolitan Government, have the authority to impose additional restrictions on the sale of beer "as will promote public health, morals and safety", and

WHEREAS, the Metropolitan Council deems it to be necessary to prohibit persons from carrying firearms upon premises where beer is sold in order to protect health, safety and welfare.

NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT ENACTED BY THE COUNCIL OF THE METROPOLITAN GOVERNMENT OF NASHVILLE AND DAVIDSON COUNTY:

Section 1. That Section 7.08.130 of the Metropolitan Code is hereby amended by adding the following provisions as subsection D.:

"D. To bring to cause, or allow to be brought a firearm onto the premises of any establishment with a retailer's "on-sale" permit. This prohibition shall not apply to on-duty law enforcement officers."

Section 2. That this Ordinance shall take effect from and after its passage, the welfare of The Metropolitan Government of Nashville and Davidson County requiring it.

Introduced by:

Charlie Tygard

Megan Barry

Carter Todd

Eric Cole

[Mike.357]

I think we would all be very curious as to what response if any you receive out of the elitist politicians.

[ngoeser59]

I just got this response.....

Ms Goeser:

Thanks for your note. It remains very unclear what authority Metro Council has on this issue. The lawyers are studying it and I will see what they say.

I am terribly sorry for your loss.

Regards,

Emily

Evans, Emily (Council Member)" <Emily.Evans@nashville.gov

[Guest Doc44]

I just got this response.....

Ms Goeser:

Thanks for your note. It remains very unclear what authority Metro Council has on this issue. The lawyers are studying it and I will see what they say.

I am terribly sorry for your loss.

Regards,

Emily

Evans, Emily (Council Member)" <Emily.Evans@nashville.gov

Sure Ms Council Member Emily is going to wait to see what the lawyers say... so are all the other council people. BUT what is her feelings and position on the issue and how would she vote.... or is she going to wait to see how the lawyers tell her what her opinion is and how to vote.

Seems like many of these council people need to buy a pool table.

Doc44

Edited June 7, 2009 by Doc44

[ngoeser59]

I asked Emily how she will vote and if she is waiting on the lawyers to tell her how to vote....here is her reply.

Ms Goeser:

I support responsible gun ownership. I don't know how I will vote as

1. I have not read the bill.

2. There is some discussion among lawyers that Mr. Tygard's bill may violate state law.

Lawyers don't tell me how to vote but they do tell me if a bill violates state and federal law. I consider their advice to be one of several factors when deciding how to vote.

Hope that clears things up.

Emily

[Guest SUNTZU]

So basically I won't vote for this bill unless its legal, however, I would never vote against it. Its politicians and their statements like this that burn me up. "I support responsible gun ownership" is the same as some closet racist telling me "I have friends who are black." Responsible gun ownership, I'll be setting the responsible rules, as well as the ownership. "THROW THE BUMS OUT!"

[Guest HexHead]

What's so difficult about "assuming it's legal, what's your feeling about the proposed ordinance?" "Do you think it's necessary or even a good idea?"

I hate politicians that won't take a stand on anything.

[ngoeser59]

So I just got this from one of the councilmen that is actually trying to push this through to not allow hcp holders to carry into restaurants that serve alcohol. This is all the man could say to me. Nice huh.

Thanks for telling me your story

Charlie Tygard

[Mike.357]

Every single one of them will vote to inhibit the rights of citizens. Makes no matter what rights we are talking about.

These damn people want to keep the power and to hell with right and wrong.

FWIW that woman is a spineless snake.

[ngoeser59]

Here is another reply I got from a council member.

I am very sorry for the loss of your husband. I agree with you on this matter.

Resectfully,

Eric Crafton

[Garufa]

I would ask Ms. Emily if she has consulted her constituency, you know the people who elected her, what their feelings are. Love to see a politician's response that that question.

[timcalhoun]

I was told that back when the HCP law first past that a bunch of counties tried to pass their own regulations to not recognize the state issued HCPs. Shortly after, the state passed a law that says all state firearm laws supersede county law making those county laws useless pieces of paper. So, if that is the case this again will be much to do about nothing. This is a firearm law not a beer law.

[Guest justme]

State lawmaker fires back in gun law dispute - WKRN, Nashville, Tennessee News, Weather, and Sports |

NASHVILLE, Tenn. - The sponsor of a controversial bill allowing guns where alcohol is served says Metro government won't trump the measure with a bill of its own. The controversy comes after several Metro Council members filed legislation Friday that would prohibit firearms in places that serve beer.

Since most places that serve beer, serve harder alcohol and wine, the Metro bill would effectively supersede the recently passed state law allowing handguns in restaurants and bars, if the patron has a handgun permit and is not drinking. Senator Doug Jackson said the proposed Metro law is illegal. "When it comes to firearms, ammunition, and components of firearms, the state has specifically reserved that right to the state of Tennessee, not to local government," said the Dickson democrat, who spearheaded a legislative override of Governor Phil Bredesen's veto of the gun bill.

Jackson has requested an opinion on the issue from the state attorney general's office and expects a legislative effort to close any loophole, "if there is any loophole," he said Friday. "We are exploring whether Metro even has jurisdiction now," said Councilman Charlie Tygard, one of several who filed the Metro bill. They want to see if local beer boards can ban guns where suds are served, but he said, "Is my family, my grandkids safer or more unsafe, in an establishment if patrons are carrying concealed weapons?"

The state law allowing permit holders to carry their guns into places that serve alcohol goes into effect on July 14. Tygard said a potential council vote would not happen until at least late July.

[Guest NotDylan]

Need a quick clarification on something. I hear the media say it allows HCP holders to carry in bars yet I've heard that this is not the case. What is the restriction, a place that has an age requirement to get in to?

[ngoeser59]

CHECK THIS OUT......THIS COUNCIL MEMBER ROCKS! I have met him 2 or 3 times and he supports us. Here is his reply to me.

Hello Nikki,

Thanks for sending this. I hope your efforts will be rewarded. I find the actions being taken by my colleagues shameful. I have received to date five (5) emails asking that I support this end-run around the new law. I have pasted the basic message i have responded with for your review. I had a friend at church suggest that I support this effort by the council. When I informed him of the facts regarding the proposed bill with the council and those of the bill passed by the state, he agreed that I should not support the council bill.

On another note, having discussed what to were with some friends. Business casual was what was suggested. A cocktail dress may be too formal.

I have set aside two tickets for you and will have them at the event, though I plan to make it to the meeting on June 11 at APPS.

Keep up the fight,

Duane

Dear ???,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Your fear should not be placed in those that have been trained, vetted, registered and fingerprinted by officials in order to gain a concealed carry permit, but in those that currently do and will continue to violate the law by carrying an often unregistered and illegally obtained weapon. If the criminal is the only one with a weapon, they are much happier, and neither you nor any other law abiding citizen has increased safety.

I must respectfully disagree with your thought that this is NOT a second amendment issue. I've included the text of the amendment as ratified by the states for review. "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." "Bear arms" as stated on Miriam-Webster.com is simply "to carry or possess arms." This proposal you've asked me to support would infringe on those rights.

I would further suggest for your consideration, the premise that any government which can ignore and circumvent one amendment and therefore your rights, might just as easily do so with any other.

I think that Thomas Jefferson may have understood the issue we face and the intent within the second amendment when he stated, "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."

Kind regards,

Duane Dominy

District 28 Councilman

[Guest crotalus01]

I wish we had someone like that on the Memphis city counsil. THERE is a counsilman who understands what the 2A is really about.

[Guest SUNTZU]

The only thing I see wrong is that we don't register firearms in the state of TN, or did I miss some new legislation?

[Guest ScottD]

They want to see if local beer boards can ban guns where suds are served, but he said, "Is my family, my grandkids safer or more unsafe, in an establishment if patrons are carrying concealed weapons?"

So this guy takes his family and grand kids into bars? Quality individual.

[GLOCKMEISTER]

in fairness Charlie doesnt have a clue.... he might wind up being on our side of this in the end, so be nice and everone needs to share our opinion with him.

[Guest justme]

Need a quick clarification on something. I hear the media say it allows HCP holders to carry in bars yet I've heard that this is not the case. What is the restriction, a place that has an age requirement to get in to?

Guns in "bars" has always been against the law--actually and under this bill that will not change. Firearms will ONLY be allowed into restaurants that serve alcohol for onsite consumption...

they keep calling it a "guns in bars bill" in order to scare the people into thinking there will be drunken shootouts in every bar in Knoxville, Nashville or Jellico...it is all about scare tactics...keep the people afraid and you can keep them nice and compliant...and that is the object after all.

[Guest sstouder]

well i researched it on this thread http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/tennessee-politics-legislation/20611-hb0962-restaurant-carry-36.html and at the bottom of the page its stated that bars dont legally have a definition so technically its still legal to carry into a bar as the bill doesnt have the age restriction in it....IMO, i could be wrong

edit: though in the bill it says this:1]such

place being provided with adequate and sanitary kitchen and dining room

equipment. . . and [2]and the serving of such meals shall be the

principal business conducted

so that would obviously rule out bars. nevermind

Edited June 8, 2009 by sstouder

[JayC]

This has been covered a number of times, there are NO bars licensed to serve liquor in the state of TN. Virtually all the places you're thinking are bars have restaurant liquor licenses, and as long as they're open 5 days a week (and serve some type of food) they are covered under HB0962 as currently written.

The curfew and "age restricted venue" requirements were lifted in the TN Senate.

So, technically TN doesn't have "bars" to carry a firearm into (at least not that serve liquor)... If they have a valid TN restaurant liquor license and are open 5 days a week or more, you may carry in them feeling safe the state has already verified they meet all the requirements under HB0962 starting on July 14th.

well i researched it on this thread http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/tennessee-politics-legislation/20611-hb0962-restaurant-carry-36.html and at the bottom of the page its stated that bars dont legally have a definition so technically its still legal to carry into a bar as the bill doesnt have the age restriction in it....IMO, i could be wrong

edit: though in the bill it says this:1]such

place being provided with adequate and sanitary kitchen and dining room

equipment. . . and [2]and the serving of such meals shall be the

principal business conducted

so that would obviously rule out bars. nevermind

[Guest sstouder]

good point...kinda irrelevant to me anyway cause a bar is a bar and i go to one to drink not eat their crappy fried chicken legs that they have to serve or whatever. so i wouldnt be carrying anyway.

[ngoeser59]

Here is another reply I got......

Ms. Goeser

I am sorry for your loss. I agree with your second amendment stance. I am a right to carry permit holder as well. I will do everything I can to insure our rights.

Thank you,

Karen Bennett

Council District 8

[ngoeser59]

Another response

Nikki, I am aware of your loss. I agree with you.

Michael Craddock

Councilmember District 4

michael.craddock@nashville.gov