I Need some tips

[dariks]

A few facts first:

1) I'm left handed and right eye dominant.

2) I mainly shoot in the isosceles/modern isosceles stance

3) My experience level with handguns is probably only high beginner or low moderate.

4) S&W M&P9

I have 2 problems:

1) My shots are consistently low and to the right of where I think I'm aiming.

2) I can't keep the gun from bobbing around a little while aiming. The longer I shoot the more pronounced this becomes.

Can anyone give me any pointers as to what I'm doing wrong?

[Guest Len]

Assuming you are sighted in correctly and assuming you shoot lefty:

1) Sounds like a trigger slap or jerking the trigger. Or you could be anticipating the shot and tightening your fingers. Both of these movements will send shots low/right. I've never shot the M&P 9, so I have no idea how trigger feel is compared to others, so I can't give more info there.

2) There will always be some movement -muscle tension and tremor never allow a 100% steady aim. This will increase with fatigue as well. Correct breathing is the key to minimizing this. Breathing should be slow and steady. When bringing the pistol on target, take a breath and hold it. Shoot. Don't wait too long, otherwise oxygen deprivation sets in and will increase the shaking. If you do wait to long, let go of the breath and re-set.

Hope this helps.

A few facts first:

1) I'm left handed and right eye dominant.

2) I mainly shoot in the isosceles/modern isosceles stance

3) My experience level with handguns is probably only high beginner or low moderate.

4) S&W M&P9

I have 2 problems:

1) My shots are consistently low and to the right of where I think I'm aiming.

2) I can't keep the gun from bobbing around a little while aiming. The longer I shoot the more pronounced this becomes.

Can anyone give me any pointers as to what I'm doing wrong?

[Guest Boomhower]

The bobbing thing is natural. Everyone does it, and of course the longer you shoot, the more tired you become so your hands are going to wear out. Just concentrate on the front sight in reference to the target, and not the movements of the gun itself. That will break your concentration and you won't be able to hit your target. And take a break every so often to let your hands rest.

I'll let someone else take the rest.

[Rightwinger]

This should be easily fixed because you said you "consistently" shoot low and right. Re train your aquisition point to go high and left and your done. If you have eye dominance issues you need to re train to shoot both eyes open as well. There are lots of ways shown in combat videos but I just shot till I was getting good groups then opened both eyes, saw what the pistol looked like in the correct aimed position and then went from there. The only problem after that is if you change pistols. Thats the condensed version. Practice practice practice.

[dunndw]

Straighten out your right elbow, and quit "pushing" your head into the sight picture..squishing up your neck. Thats exactly the same problem I was fighting during class. The elbow thing is HARD to do, I'm used to shooting a modified weaver stance...and dropping everything low right. When I FORCE myself to shoot modified isosceles (feet shoulder width apart, left foot slightly back, both arms straight) I shoot much better; it's just hard to re train.

[dariks]

Thanks for the advice guys!

I'll have to remember and print this off before I go to the range next time.

[Guest Phantom6]

You are gettin' some good info here, dariks. Along the lines of what Len was talking about regarding trigger pull and grip issues, go to the Fun Stuff page on the Makarov.com site. Scroll down a bit and you will find an Analysis Target for Southpaws. It's in .PDF format and easy to download. The target is sectioned into zones to analyze typical shooting grip and trigger squeeze issues. Of course, if you're grouping well otherwise, it could be that your sights are off a tad.

[dariks]

You are gettin' some good info here, dariks. Along the lines of what Len was talking about regarding trigger pull and grip issues, go to the Fun Stuff page on the Makarov.com site. Scroll down a bit and you will find an Analysis Target for Southpaws. It's in .PDF format and easy to download. The target is sectioned into zones to analyze typical shooting grip and trigger squeeze issues. Of course, if you're grouping well otherwise, it could be that your sights are off a tad.

According to the analysis target I am doing mainly D (Squeezing whole hand with trigger) with a little F (Jerking) as well. If that's accurate I never would have guessed that I was squeezing my whole hand. I know I also will occasionally anticipate the recoil which puts my shots in the I group, so that seems fairly accurate.

Interesting info!

Thanks

[DaveTN]

If you aim at the exact same point all the time what do your groups look like? Is the M&P the first handgun you have shot that has three dot sights?

[Mike.357]

as per advice I received if shaking sets in pull back to low-ready between shots.

This really works.

[dariks]

At 25ft my groups are around 6"-9". The M&P is the first semi-auto that I have owned. I also have a Llama .357, but I don't shoot it much.

[Urse]

I can not overexaggerate how much better you will get by dryfiring. Make sure the gun is unloaded, aim at a backstop you would not mind destroying and dryfire ...dryfire....dryfire. When I first get a new handgun I dryfire to the point I can balance an empty cartridge case on the front sight while pulling the trigger with out dropping the case. Then I dry fire somemore. There is no cheaper way to practice grip, sight picture and trigger squeeze. DryFire!

[molonlabetn]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

+1 to dry-firing. If controlling the trigger-pull is the issue (which it seems to be), the above advice will make a difference.

And, I'd like to add, that getting/renting a .22lr pistol will help you concentrate on your trigger-pull/sight-alignment without developing a flinch.

[Guest Phantom6]

I agree with Urse and molonlabetn. The benefits of dry practice can not be over emphasized. Below is a two page handout that I give to all of my students regarding this invaluable practice technique. Hope it helps you as much as it has helped others.

Dry Practice is a training technique— using an unloaded weapon— that gives you three, very important results:

1. Repetitive Dry Practice engrains the proper gross neuromuscular pathways so you become smoother and faster in your gun handling skills such as Presentation from the Holster, Malfunction Clearances, Reloading etc.
   
2. Repetitive Dry Practice engrains the proper neuromuscular pathways needed for Sight Alignment, Sight Picture, and Trigger Control.
   
3. Repetitive Dry Practice replaces the natural reflex to anticipate muzzle blast and recoil when the weapon fires, with a perfect surprise trigger break, thus preventing Pre-ignition Push, Heeling, Trigger Mash or Slap, Flinch, etc. and helps you develop the consistency and precision of a well oiled, shooting machine!

In other words, every time you engage a target and press the trigger with a live round in the chamber, there is a big bang and a push. Reflexively you will naturally begin to anticipate and prepare yourself for the bang and push, creating numerous bad habits that affect your marksmanship. The more you shoot (as in hundreds of rounds in a single day), the more you ingrain these Bad Habits and the longer it takes to remove them.

Perfect and repeated Dry Practice makes for perfectly executed fundamentals;

· Perfect position,

· Perfect Grip,

· Perfect Sight Alignment/ Sight Picture

· Perfect Breath Control

· Perfect Trigger Squeeze

· Perfect Follow Through

—and that creates the ability to deliver a live shot with the speed and precision you only see in action adventure movies—but with you it will be real!

You see, shooting does not make you better. Dry Practice Makes You Better and shooting simply validates the proper Dry Practice you have done.

I know it sounds too good to be true! A training drill that dramatically improves your skills; that you can practice in your garage; that requires no ammunition; and is free of charge for the rest of your life? Can’t be true! Of course it’s true and the best shooters in the world will tell you so.

Warning: Only perfect dry practice makes perfect. You can practice crap for 20 years and all you will ever become is a Crap Master! You need to know the proper training techniques in order to dry practice perfectly.

Here is a Dry Practice Checklist for you. For safety's sake, follow it to the letter every time you dry practice.

Dry Practice Checklist

• Goal. Set a realistic dry practice goal before you begin. A long practice session is not necessarily better because quality and not quantity is the key here.

• Mindset. Get into the proper mindset for training. Concentrate on your dry practice. Turn off the TV or the stereo and pay attention to what it is you are trying to accomplish.

• Control. Establish control of your dry practice environment so as to eliminate any distractions. If you are not expecting anyone to come over then don’t answer the door. If you are not expecting a phone call then don’t answer the phone. Let it go to voice mail or let the answering machine field it for you.

• Unload the firearm and yourself. There should be no live ammunition in the same room with you. Unload the firearm, remove extra magazines or spare ammunition and place it all in a secure location in ANOTHER ROOM.

• Chamber check your firearm. Do this both visually and with your finger to verify that it is unloaded and say out loud “ The firearm is unloaded and I am ready for dry practiceâ€.

• Target. Select an appropriate sized target and if at all possible, place it on a surface capable of stopping a bullet.

• Redundant chamber check. Chamber check your firearm again and begin your dry practice session concentrating on the fundamentals of what you are doing.

• Don’t over extend. Terminate the dry practice session before you get fatigued. Wearing yourself out will not benefit you at all. It will only make you sloppy.

• Target removal. Remove your dry practice target immediately upon finishing up your dry practice session.

• Announcement. Say aloud “Dry Practice is overâ€.Once you say this the firearm can never be picked up for dry practice without starting at the top of this list and going through the process again.

• Re-holster/ re-box your firearm. Carry your firearm into the next room where you have stored your ammunition and return your firearm to its normal state of readiness. If you use this firearm for self defense it should be loaded, safety on and returned to its usual location such as a holster, fanny pack, briefcase, nightstand or where ever.

Austin’s Tennessee Firearms School-

http://firearmsclasses.com