The Restaurant business

[Guest cowboy20th]

wjh, I see what you are saying, and I agree we need to keep unbridled capitalist in their place. But the issue we are discussing is not about that, it is just about a restaurant owners choice and right to have that choice to make a decision about what is best for their business and customers safety. I respect your opinion, and would be right beside you if the issue was about the state saying it was mandatory for restaurants to allow carry. Yet the law that was passed gives the owners the right to choose, and I believe we are all happy with this law.

I ENCOURAGE you not to spend your dollars at a restaurant that is posted if you feel that strongly about the issue, and tell your friends too. It is important in this country for you to follow your beliefs and to not compromise your values, I just didn't want to see any sitins or other nonviolent protest starting to take place. Not that you would start those, but you never know who you run into on these internet things.

I believe are numbers are in the right places, such as the legislator. As far as a public display of numbers, I don't believe that would be effective in most areas since we seem to be few and far between in this state.

You can only get a government bailout if you run your business on socialist values or gave/giving money to King Obama's campaign.

The restaurant business is hard enough, and many of these owners are not really very educated in firearms. The best way to change a mind in this instance is to engage in intelligent polite discussion. Maybe even try to take a restaurant owner to the range one day, a good day at the range is enough to change the mind of most.

[wjh2657]

My reply wasn't to the restaurant issue but to the power of boycott. It's an important tool in keeping capitalism reigned in and viable. As far as restaurants go, I usally put my gun in the trunk GunSafe for the rest of the night if the wife suddenly decides to eat at Chilis or another nice restaurant/bar. I do that because I like to have a beer with my food too. You can't drink and carry! Momma also knows the deal is that she drives home (she is a tee-totaler.) as i stated i don't normally boycott anybody. If I don't like their business philosophy, I just avoid them, but I do mention this to friends occasionally. I have boycotted stores that I believe have unfair business practices in the past and probably will again.

Sometimes a business can confuse you as to how you are to regard them. I love Walmart's prices and brand names carried for ammunition and sporting goods. However, I strongly dislike many of their employee practices, particularly as it pertains to benefit packages. (I still shop there!)

[jaysouth]

If a place is posted, whether properly or not, I know the owners feelings about weapons and self defense and I will not spend a cent with that business.--MP

Please go back and read the initial opening post. You seem to have missed something.

I would hate to think that you are that callous or indifferent to the "rights" of the owner of an establishment that has to please everyone. One way to attempt this balance is to post a noncompliant sign to make the handwringers feel warm and fuzzy.

Please do not appeal to facts or logic in this subject, neither apply to the thinking processes of anti gunners or hysterial media idiots.

Please remember that your ability to carry a firearm is not a right, it is a priviledige granted by the TN legislature. The more you scare the sheeple and soccermoms, the more likely your "right" will be rescinded.

[GLOCKMEISTER]

If ANY restaurant post ANY sign showing their attempt to restrict our rights... I will not frequent that business and would suggest to everyone I know not to either. IMHO its like posting a sign saying no bibles allowed... don't speak your opinion... and a sign saying your subject to search and we can take your shiet anytime we want if you come into our business.

WHATS THE DIFFERENCE?

Its their right to post... its my right to protect my family and friends and chose not to go there.

[jaysouth]

If ANY restaurant post ANY sign showing their attempt to restrict our rights... I will not frequent that business and would suggest to everyone I know not to either. IMHO its like posting a sign saying no bibles allowed... don't speak your opinion... and a sign saying your subject to search and we can take your shiet anytime we want if you come into our business.

WHATS THE DIFFERENCE?

Its their right to post... its my right to protect my family and friends and chose not to go there.

You contradict yourself:

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/294428-post7.html

Why is it OK for a theater but not a restaurant?

[Wingshooter]

Posted places loose my business because I am usually carrying... period.

I can't tell you the last time I went to the Bradley Square mall here in Cleveland, K-Mart, Sears, etc. because the whole stupid parking lot is posted. I used to spent thousands of dollars a year at these places before I got my HCP. Now I just go elsewhere.

It's the same with a restaurant for me. If they post, I won't darken their door. There are plenty of other good eats in town that will accept my $$$ without restricting my ability to defend my family.

[Guest Risky Ruger]

Posted places loose my business because I am usually carrying... period.

I can't tell you the last time I went to the Bradley Square mall here in Cleveland, K-Mart, Sears, etc. because the whole stupid parking lot is posted. I used to spent thousands of dollars a year at these places before I got my HCP. Now I just go elsewhere.

It's the same with a restaurant for me. If they post, I won't darken their door. There are plenty of other good eats in town that will accept my $$$ without restricting my ability to defend my family.

AMEN!!

[GLOCKMEISTER]

You contradict yourself:

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/294428-post7.html

Why is it OK for a theater but not a restaurant?

nope, you didnt understand what I meant by SHHHHUSH..... it meant dont tell them so they can change their sign.

Btw, I do refuse to buisness with EVERYONE that post a sign. Thus the reason my wife never gets anything from Jared... she doesnt like it but she understands. I will however go to a sears/jcp's enterance to bypass the mall signs.... but that doesnt count because the merchants I shop with in there arent posting their leased propertys.

[Guest HexHead]

Heres a letter I wrote Randy at the sunset grill...

Randy,

I just wanted to drop you a line and tell you I have been a loyal customer for years. While I don't frequent your establishment weekly me and my friends do get down there when we can. Your position to exclude legal carry of firearms by law abiding citizens will cause me to never frequent your establishment again. I dont understand your position becasue permit holders cant drink and carry their firearms. If your position were valid, then you wouldnt serve anyone that drove a motor vehicle to your buisness. 37 states allow this type of carry and there have been no problems so far. You can easily use Georgia and Kentucky as examples. Right now I'd rather drive to either of them or your competition rather then give up a right allowed by God, our Constitution and our State Legislature.

Thanks You

Phillip Arrington

Be sure to post his response. LOLOLOL

[Guest HexHead]

do all of you really eat out so much as this thing is a big deal anyway?

I am guessing my wife and I go to a restaurant and "eat out" maybe twice a year.

I am doubting anyone gives a crap if I spend money with them or not.

yeah, several times a week generally.

[Guest HexHead]

Doubly confused now.

You're right, Michie's doesn't show the stature this way at all. No mention there of size of notice, and in this version, there's no mention of the "substantially similar".

I also can't find any other inroad into the TCA except for Michie's.

I had seen this above quoted somewhere previously, but assumed that was a new entry into the statutes mandated by one of the ones adopted this session.

How do we know what's the real verbiage?

- OS

I would use the AG opinion as a guide.

[Guest HexHead]

Boycotting an injustice is one thing, boycotting a business because you don't like their opinions totally another. If a group of businesses are trying to bully the market to their favor then yes, the market needs to be controlled. But this issue is not about controlling the market, they are not bullying the price of their food, they are simply trying to decide the best thing for their restaurant. Which we may or may not agree with. Just like if we like or don't like their food, you just don't go there. You don't start a grassroots movement to take down the evil establishment that puts butter on their green beans, you just don't eat their green beans, because the next guy might like those.

Just like the gun laws, the owner of that establishment knows their clientel more than anyone else, and has probably been talking to them over the past month to decide what to do about the gun issue. Maybe their clientel is really anti/pro gun and the owner will do what they wish to still attract those guest. this decision isn't personal for them, it is business. They will only post if their clientel is typically antigun and has expressed concerns about the issue. Besides that, we are not a majority in this state, and for us to sponsor a sit in or something of the like would probably be pretty weak anyway.

Cowboy, I just can't agree with you. The current political climate in this country and having read the insane ramblings of left wing liberal loons in the paper for months over this issue has caused me to draw a line in the sand. You're either with us or against us, and if your against us, screw you. (I'm not addressing this to you personally, just speaking in generalities.) If a business posts, especially to please their LWLL customers, I hope they go out of business as a result of listening to those idiots. Respecting my RIGHTS shouldn't be a matter of choice.

[Guest HexHead]

I would hate to think that you are that callous or indifferent to the "rights" of the owner of an establishment that has to please everyone. One way to attempt this balance is to post a noncompliant sign to make the handwringers feel warm and fuzzy.

Please do not appeal to facts or logic in this subject, neither apply to the thinking processes of anti gunners or hysterial media idiots.

Please remember that your ability to carry a firearm is not a right, it is a priviledige granted by the TN legislature. The more you scare the sheeple and soccermoms, the more likely your "right" will be rescinded.

If I thought for a moment that they were calculating enough to do that, I might change my stance. But a non-compliant sign is generally posted out of ignorance and still shows the owner's feelings and intent.

[Guest papa_t]

Cowboy, I just can't agree with you. The current political climate in this country and having read the insane ramblings of left wing liberal loons in the paper for months over this issue has caused me to draw a line in the sand. You're either with us or against us, and if your against us, screw you. (I'm not addressing this to you personally, just speaking in generalities.) If a business posts, especially to please their LWLL customers, I hope they go out of business as a result of listening to those idiots. Respecting my RIGHTS shouldn't be a matter of choice.

Well said HexHead!!!

[Guest jth_3s]

What happens if you are caught carrying in a properly posted place such as a resturant? It says it is a criminal offense punishable by a fine of up to $500 dollars but could you go to jail or would they just ask you to leave most of the time?

[GLOCKMEISTER]

What sign... I didnt see no stinking sign....

Honestly this is the reason you CC. If you make a mistake the world doesnt know it.

[Guest HexHead]

What happens if you are caught carrying in a properly posted place such as a resturant? It says it is a criminal offense punishable by a fine of up to $500 dollars but could you go to jail or would they just ask you to leave most of the time?

Well, that's better than the current sign that says Class A misdemeanor, 11 months, 29 days in jail and a $2500 fine.

It is what it is and what the sign says. My guess, is they'd just discretely ask you to leave so not to cause a scene. If they were militant about the issue, and call the cops, then the penalty will be what the sign says it is.

Now, if you're drinking, it's a whole 'nother thang.

[Guest cowboy20th]

HexHead, I can respect your opinion in the matter, because it is true that the current political climate is not favorable to us gun owners. I still stand behind my opinion on the issue though as well.

I can agree we need to do more in the public view in order to be recognized and heard without the use of reporters or elected or appointed representatives. We have a bad public image in general due to public ignorance, not our behavior in public. They think we are gun toting rambo wannabes and see no need to carry in this day and time, we see it complete oppossite.

I simply think loud protest would just draw the wrong attention to our group. Sure there is a place for it, but it has not come to that yet, I know some will disagree with that. To me we should work on programs to get people involved, do charity work and volunteer together in our areas, and invite the media to cover it. Maybe have gun safety saturdays in public areas with high foot traffic, push for universities to offer history classes studying weapons and firearms and the REAL role they played in shaping our history.

To me, measures such as these would greatly improve ourselves publicly and personally. I would be happy to feed the homeless or help some disabled children, take a batered woman out to the range one day. We should organize and put our best foot forward, not get loud and obnoxious.

[wjh2657]

"To me, measures such as these would greatly improve ourselves publicly and personally. I would be happy to feed the homeless or help some disabled children, take a batered woman out to the range one day."

Cowboy20th:

The people you just mentioned are "sub Human trash and parasites" to the people you are arguing with. You are proving their personal argument. These are the people that the "Liberals" cater to. If you haven't already noticed, all the heat in these forums is not related to the RTKBA but to a political party affiliation. They lost the election and they are using the 2d A as their personal sounding board as to why they should still be in power. The argument is party to party and not to the issue. Notice the use of the term "liberals" instead of "anti-gun people"

I am not a Liberal. I am a Libertarian and I am after all of the Anti-gun politicians and groups (Republican, Democrat, and whatever.) And yes there are some strong Republican anti-gun reps, they are just very subtle about it. In the South many of our strongest advocates (pro-gun) are Democrats! If we want to keep our guns we need to vote for the individuals, regardless of party affiliations, who have set the record of supporting us. If we tie ourselves to just one party, we are just as liable to lose our guns to one as the other. The current administration does bear close scrutiny in this issue but we need to keep an eye on some of the so-called friendly Conservatives too.

Let's keep our eye on the fact that it is a Constitutional issue not a Party issue.

[Guest slothful1]

The people you just mentioned are "sub Human trash and parasites" to the people you are arguing with.

I would like to see you back up that assertion with evidence.

[Guest cowboy20th]

wjh,

Maybe you should clarify for us your first paragraph before we go into discussion about it. Its late and I am tired, buy my best understanding was that disabled children, battered women, and homeless people are "subhuman trash" I know that isn't what it really meant so I would like a little clarification so i don't misunderstand.

We are doing quite well electing officials willing to vote in favor of pro gun legislation here in Tennessee, nationally not so much but hey its a start. I believe our recent legislation proves our support. I was looking into going a step farther with this though, making it easier for politicians to take our side publicly and not getting slammed for it. By showing the public our best side, maybe we can gain ground in the public support area. politicians are the only known species of humans to imitate chameleons, they can blend into any group as long as it gets them reelected and provides security.

[wjh2657]

I would like to see you back up that assertion with evidence.

Don't have to, the far right posters have done it for me. Read previous posts by the "Liberal Bashers". You can't rail against "Communist" social programs day after day and then act offended when your hand is called.

BTW you answered in the political defensive mode, not the RKBA mode. Point made.

My major political concern is for individual rights and then economic survival of small businesses and small communities. That makes me a moderate not a liberal. Neither party represents the moderates concerns.

My point wasn't to get into an argument but to shut this thread down and get back to the major issue of this forum and that is 2d Amendment rights for all good citizens, regardless of which party is in power.

[Guest benchpresspower]

[Smith]

"To me, measures such as these would greatly improve ourselves publicly and personally. I would be happy to feed the homeless or help some disabled children, take a batered woman out to the range one day."

Cowboy20th:

The people you just mentioned are "sub Human trash and parasites" to the people you are arguing with. You are proving their personal argument. These are the people that the "Liberals" cater to. If you haven't already noticed, all the heat in these forums is not related to the RTKBA but to a political party affiliation. They lost the election and they are using the 2d A as their personal sounding board as to why they should still be in power. The argument is party to party and not to the issue. Notice the use of the term "liberals" instead of "anti-gun people"

I am not a Liberal. I am a Libertarian and I am after all of the Anti-gun politicians and groups (Republican, Democrat, and whatever.) And yes there are some strong Republican anti-gun reps, they are just very subtle about it. In the South many of our strongest advocates (pro-gun) are Democrats! If we want to keep our guns we need to vote for the individuals, regardless of party affiliations, who have set the record of supporting us. If we tie ourselves to just one party, we are just as liable to lose our guns to one as the other. The current administration does bear close scrutiny in this issue but we need to keep an eye on some of the so-called friendly Conservatives too.

Let's keep our eye on the fact that it is a Constitutional issue not a Party issue.

Uh..... liberal is not a party but an ideology. It transcends parties as does the dissatisfaction most here have with said parties.

[dralarms]

Posted places loose my business because I am usually carrying... period.

I can't tell you the last time I went to the Bradley Square mall here in Cleveland, K-Mart, Sears, etc. because the whole stupid parking lot is posted. I used to spent thousands of dollars a year at these places before I got my HCP. Now I just go elsewhere.

It's the same with a restaurant for me. If they post, I won't darken their door. There are plenty of other good eats in town that will accept my $$$ without restricting my ability to defend my family.

What's funny about this is I was in BSM every weekend, carrying, went one weekend and my wife pointed out the sign at the entrance, had to go back ou tjust to read the sign, checked all main entrances to the lot and they were all posted. I left, sent a letter to the owners of the mall, nothing happened. And yes I'm like you, I used to spend a bunch there.