Carry in WMA's bill HB 0961

[Fallguy]

I think they are just lost as what to do and what the law means to be honest.

I'm glad someone posted in here again though, I was exchanging e-mails with someone from the TWRA that was in contact with their law department. She told me to wait a couple of weeks (been time if not past) and contact her again...so I will do that shortly.

[Wingshooter]

I think they are just lost as what to do and what the law means to be honest.

I'm glad someone posted in here again though, I was exchanging e-mails with someone from the TWRA that was in contact with their law department. She told me to wait a couple of weeks (been time if not past) and contact her again...so I will do that shortly.

I think you are right. He was stumbling around with his explanation as to why I couldn't exercise my HCP in the WMA. I think he was even confusing the Parks law with the WMA law because he mentioned Knox Co. voting to opt out (or not). I almost couldn't even have an intelligent conversation with him about it because he knew so little about it... only that they would take my gun and give me a ticket.

Please let us know if you get any info from your contact.

[GKar]

Ask him to check with his supervisory LEO, and with their legal staff in Nashville. I was told that office had provided clear direction...of course, that assumes there were folks willing to listen on the receiving end. I did notice that the relevant portions of their website have not been updated, while other items on those same pages are current within a couple of days.

[JayC]

I hate to say this, but you probably should call the state headquarters for the TWRA and file a formal complaint that the officer is violating current state law by prohibiting you from carrying in the WMA. This will result in the problem getting cleared up in short order (30-60 days).

I've also spoken with the TWRA here in Nashville they indicated a letter had been sent out to all TWRA offices stating that HCP was now legal, my guess this guy hasn't read all of his email

Hasn't the TWRA had enough time to learn about the WMA/HCP law? I got pretty much this same response from a TWRA guy today about the North Cumberland WMA / Royal Blue:

I don't know how the deer hunting is there, but I was planning to go scout the area soon. He said that if I was caught with a handgun (HCP or not) while riding on the ATV trails, that I might get my weapon confiscated and ticketed although it would be legal for me to be there in the WMA.

He said the reason it is not allowed is that they prohibit firearms except during the hunting season (and then only what is legal for the game). He also said that it is such a new law that they have not made any decisions on what to do :screwy:. He also informed me that "nobody had any use for a handgun there".

The way I understand it, the law is in effect. Can they just choose to ignore its existence forever because it is a "new law"?

Has anyone received any different information about this WMA? It's 146,000 acres, and I would like to be able to carry more than a slingshot during the off season.

Edited August 12, 2009 by JayC

[Fallguy]

Good deal.

That is who I've been e-mailing is supposed to be in contact with (legal office). So hopefully she can confirm this soon.

What would be nice is a copy of the letter, when I hear back from her I may see about getting a copy.

[Wingshooter]

That's good news! I need to start printing the verbage of some of the newer laws to keep with me. It might help a great deal if I encounter this type of officer deep within a WMA while carrying.

I might contact Nashville about the officer's comments. Nothing really "happened" other than a conversation, so I would just be interested in making sure everyone is properly educated on the law.

I have heard (or read somewhere on this board) that an officer could issue a "special order" or something to that effect to restrict firearms. Hopefully that's not true, but my concern was that he might be talking about something like that in the works for this WMA...

Edited August 12, 2009 by Batman

[JayC]

A formal complain will result in the officer in question getting properly educated in the new laws and prevent him from mis-communicating official policy in the future, it's the right way to go, we're more than 60 days since that law went into effect, he should be in the loop by now.

As for the special order stuff, that is for National Forrest Service controlled locations, not state WMAs (although there are at least 2 WMAs which happen to be on Forrest Service land). So if it's state owned land, then they don't have the ability to issue special orders you're talking about.

That's good news! I need to start printing the verbage of some of the newer laws to keep with me. It might help a great deal if I encounter this type of officer deep within a WMA while carrying.

I might contact Nashville about the officer's comments. Nothing really "happened" other than a conversation, so I would just be interested in making sure everyone is properly educated on the law.

I have heard (or read somewhere on this board) that an officer could issue a "special order" or something to that effect to restrict firearms. Hopefully that's not true, but my concern was that he might be talking about something like that in the works for this WMA...

[Fallguy]

I have heard (or read somewhere on this board) that an officer could issue a "special order" or something to that effect to restrict firearms. Hopefully that's not true, but my concern was that he might be talking about something like that in the works for this WMA...

As for the special order stuff, that is for National Forrest Service controlled locations, not state WMAs (although there are at least 2 WMAs which happen to be on Forrest Service land). So if it's state owned land, then they don't have the ability to issue special orders you're talking about.

That is correct, special orders are on the Federal Level

[Wingshooter]

Good deal on the special order stuff - that clears that up for me!

After re-reading the verbage of the bill (law), I think the last sentence in the amendment is what has caused uncertainty among some of the TWRA folks. Some of those opposed argue that wildlife laws/rules say you can only have the appropriate firearm when the season is open. For my own clarification, does that last sentence just mean that you have to be legally able to be on the WMA in the first place (appropriate license, during open hours, etc)?

Bill Summary

Under present law, it is unlawful for any person to possess a firearm, bow and arrow, shotgun or rifle while in any refuge, public hunting area, or wildlife management area frequented or inhabited by big game, except during specified or lawful open hunting seasons on these areas. This bill authorizes a person with a Tennessee handgun carry permit to possess a handgun the entire year while on any refuge, public hunting area, wildlife management area, or, to the extent permitted by federal law, national forest land maintained by the state or national park.

ON JUNE 17, 2009, THE HOUSE ADOPTED AMENDMENT #1 AND PASSED HOUSE BILL 961, AS AMENDED.

AMENDMENT #1 specifies that a person with a handgun permit may not possess a handgun in the portion of any refuge, public hunting area or wildlife management area that is within the boundaries of a state park or natural area unless otherwise authorized under present law. This amendment also specifies that a person may not access any area unless the person is in full compliance with all wildlife laws and rules.

Sorry if I'm beating a dead horse - this info might be contained somewhere within the last 20 pages. I'm just trying to make sure I know all the details.

Edited August 12, 2009 by Batman

[Fallguy]

Good deal on the special order stuff - that clears that up for me!

After re-reading the verbage of the bill (law), I think the last sentence in the amendment is what has caused uncertainty among some of the TWRA folks. Some of those opposed argue that wildlife laws/rules say you can only have the appropriate firearm when the season is open. For my own clarification, does that last sentence just mean that you have to be legally able to be on the WMA in the first place (appropriate license, during open hours, etc)?

That is the way all of us take it anyway.

I think they just wanted to clarify, that because you have a HCP doesn't mean you have free reign to access the WMA. But that as long as you can otherwise legally be there (wildlife rules/regulations) then you can carry your handgun if you have a HCP. I mean the law goes on to say you can't use the handgun to hunt unless you lawfully could under the wildlife laws.

I could be wrong, but I think some of the delay maybe from the TWRA in general not liking the law and trying to find some sort of "loophole" out of it. But maybe they finally decided there wasn't one.

[Wingshooter]

Thanks!

The law reads clearer than the bill. I'm going to print it and keep a copy in my hunting pack. http://state.tn.us/sos/acts/106/pub/pc0606.pdf

[Fallguy]

Here is the e-mail I just got back from the person I've been talking with

Steve,

I just talked with our assistant director Ron Fox. He told me that some of the applications are still not very clear and that our Executive Director Ed Carter will talk about this with our board of commissioners at the August 21 meeting. A definite decision will be made and info given to the public after the August meeting.

Brenda Williams

TWRA

So not so sure it has all been resolved after all....

[JayC]

Here is the e-mail I just got back from the person I've been talking with

So not so sure it has all been resolved after all....

I'd email them back and see when and where this meeting will be, might not be a bad idea for some 2nd amendment supports to show up and attend (keep in mind under the TN Sunshine law this has to be an open meeting that they allow to public to attend).

[Wingshooter]

I wonder what kind of "decisions" they can make. You would think that the legislature and governor made the decision for them.

Interesting...

[Fallguy]

I'd email them back and see when and where this meeting will be, might not be a bad idea for some 2nd amendment supports to show up and attend (keep in mind under the TN Sunshine law this has to be an open meeting that they allow to public to attend).

It is on their website.

Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency - Upcoming Events

August 20-21, 2009

(Thursday & Friday)

Paris Landing State Park Inn

400 Lodge Road

Buchanon, TN 38222

1-800-250-8614, 731-641-4465

[Guest kkennedy1]

I think these officers and personel are well aware of the new law, they are just trying for any loophole to opt out. I have called twra on a regular basis and have got so many differnt answers. I spoke with Natt Johnson from "director" at the law enforcement office, his response was yes the laws says you can carry but you have to abbide by wildlife laws,he said this in a way that seemed to legally say you could but you would be in violation. Stooksberry at Royal Blue was very rude and said no and went on to say he had spent 20 years fixing the area and that he was not going to let the law makers destroy it. I'm to the point that the mixed answers don't matter any more. I have started carrying handgun, so be it if they ticket me. I will go to court if ticketed. I think the new law that has passed is great. I think I would ask for a jury trial therefore it seems to me that the wording in the bill would stand up with a jury. I would really hate for it to go that fare but I'm ready. I guess if our lawmakers can put the effort to pass this law, i will put it to test. Enough rambling, KK

Here is a few emails I sent out(There Resposes)

1) To TWRA Assistant Director Nat Johnson

I'm sorry for the confusion, but I have just been informed that all questions regarding CCP on WMA House Bill 0961 be referred to TWRA Assistant Director Nat Johnson. By copy of this e-mail I am forwarding yours on to Mr. Johnson for a response. If you would like to call his office directly, the number is 615-781-6556.

2) State Rep Mike Bell

K,

TWRA has told me this will not be an issue. They will comply with the new law, HB961. Give them a couple of weeks to get the information out to their field officers.

Mike

Edited August 12, 2009 by kkennedy1
correction

[victorcharlie]

Call the local DA's office, he's the one that's going to prosecute, not the TWRA.

[Fallguy]

Call the local DA's office, he's the one that's going to prosecute, not the TWRA.

True, but advoding a ticket/arrest by a TWRA officer in the first place is not a bad idea either.

[victorcharlie]

You are correct sir, my point is to tell the TWRA officer which DA you spoke with and the fact that the DA stated it was legal and would not be prosecuted.

IMO we have way to many liberals running the National Park service, Forestry Department, and TWRA.

Next thing you know there going to tell us animals have rights, or something ridiculous like that.

[Fallguy]

Got ya...and if you can get such a statement from the DA I agree that would be good.

Hopefully something will be coming down on a state level soon though.

PETA = People Eat The Animials....

[OngoingFreedom]

Got ya...and if you can get such a statement from the DA I agree that would be good.

Hopefully something will be coming down on a state level soon though.

PETA = People Eat The Animials....

I prefer "People Eating Tasty Animals" myself

[Worriedman]

What is the term of appointees to the TWRA Commission? Will there be an opportunity for a change in makeup of the commission with the ascension of a new Governor?

[Fallguy]

Below is the e-mail I just got from the TWRA

TWRA PUBLIC STATEMENT RELATED TO HANDGUN CARRY PERMITS

Recent legislative changes provide that individuals who possess a carry permit may possess their handgun while on TWRA wildlife management areas, public hunting areas or refuges open to hunter access. The handgun may not be used for taking game unless specifically permitted by TWRA regulation. This change will now allow those with carry permits to possess their handgun at times when previously it would not have been permissible such as during archery hunting. TWRA will apply this same interpretation to those possessing carry permits while hunting on private lands.

Ed Carter, Executive Director

Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency

PO Box 40747

Nashville, Tn 37204

Phone: 615-781-6552

Fax: 615-781-6551

I replied (just to clarify)

So just to clarify, as long as I am not bow hunting and can otherwise legally be in the WMA I can carry my handgun as long as I have permit, even if I'm not hunting period.

[Punisher84]

Below is the e-mail I just got from the TWRA

I replied (just to clarify)

From what I get you can carry it if you were bow hunting you just can't shoot the deer with it. He was saying it would have been PREVIOUSLY illegal.

[Fallguy]

From what I get you can carry it if you were bow hunting you just can't shoot the deer with it. He was saying it would have been PREVIOUSLY illegal.

Hmmmm...you may be right. I swear when I first looked at it I thought he had said "will not allow" instead of "will now allow"

The reason I thought that is, the bill that would have allowed you to be armed while bow hunting, did not pass. But perhaps they decided it wasn't necessary with the passage of this bill.

Just sent this...

Oops...disregard the part about bow hunting in my previous e-mail. I misread the statement.

However I did think it was still illegal to have any firearm while bow hunting, even with the passage of HB0961.

But my main question was/is about just being on a WMA (legally) period and not necessarily while hunting.

Thanks