Carry in WMA's bill HB 0961

[Wingshooter]

If you have WMA Permit to hunt with, then you are to follow all WMA rules for each WMA that you enter, and support them. There are different rules that apply to different WMA's. Do not think you can over ride the WMA's rules, because as a person who has a permit to carry a handgun is subjected to these rule's as well as the people who are just hunting. Even if the laws change, up in Nashville concerning your places to carry, you are still bound by the TWRA rules. NO exceptions.

I never did understand why I would want to carry a handgun while I was hunting with a rifle or a shotgun.

I love to hunt. I hunt WMAs often - mostly with a bow. However, I can't wait until I can carry my handgun legally on a WMA during the off season while scouting. I don't know if I will carry a handgun if I ever hunt a WMA with a shotgun/rifle, but it sure is nice to have the option. Sometimes I hunt with a handgun anyway...

I am extremely happy about this bill. I just hope we can get the one rolling that allows an HCP holder to carry while bowhunting (I forget the bill #), but that's the subject of another thread.

[Guest Patty]

It is currently not allowed in TWRA rules to have a handgun will hunting with a bow, if it is bow season only, that might not change.

[JayC]

It is currently not allowed in TWRA rules to have a handgun will hunting with a bow, if it is bow season only, that might not change.

It appears if hb0961 were to become law it would allow the carry of a handgun while bow hunting, just not using the handgun to take game.

Notwithstanding subsection (a), a person with a handgun carry permit pursuant to § 39-17-1351 may possess a handgun the entire year while on the premises of any refuge, public hunting area, wildlife management area or, to the extent permitted by federal law, national forest land maintained by the state. Nothing in this subsection (d) shall authorize a person to use any handgun to hunt unless such person is in full compliance with all wildlife laws, rules and regulations.

You'll note it says: a person with a handgun carry permit pursuant to § 39-17-1351 may possess a handgun the entire year

It doesn't say anything about except during bow season, or only if you're not hunting with another device, it says you may possess a handgun the entire year...

While there is language barring a person from using any handgun to hunt... That means to use in the taking of game, it does not bar possess while hunting with another device designed for taking game.

The TWRA does have a lot of power to prohibit a lot of stuff, but none of those regulations may violate state law. The TWRA will need to change their hunting guide to note the changes later this year or next year.

Now the guy above who wanted to hunt deer with his handgun while carrying a .22 for small game hunting, that may violate TWRA regulations after this bill becomes law, there maybe a regulation against carrying a rimfire rifle while taking large game such as a deer. But carrying a centerfire handgun for protection while hunting small game will be legal when this bill becomes law.

[Fallguy]

Actually when/if HB0961 becomes law, it will still be illegal to be in possesion of a firearm while bow hunting or even have someone with you that is armed.

It may or not be a TWRA regulation, but it is the law as well.

70-4-123 Hunting with bow and arrow while in possession of firearms or accompanied by a person in possession of firearms — Penalty.

(a) It is unlawful for any person hunting big game with a bow and arrow to be in possession of any firearms or be accompanied in hunting by any person possessing firearms during the archery-only deer season.

( A person who violates the provisions of this section commits a Class C misdemeanor.

There was a bill to change this HB0770/SB0842 but it never seemed to get started.

However I do agree the TWRA can not make any regulation that goes against state law.

[victorcharlie]

Nope, you have to follow all rules. There is not any Trump cards in the deck of rules that you agreed to when you committed to follow any and all legal postings and written rules. And hunting seasons are almost year round in most WMA's if you like hunting. Thats what them WMA's are for.

Hunting season year round in most WMA's? Are you serious? WMA's fall under there own set of rules, and most WMA's are seldom open to hunting big game, which under current rules is the only time one can possess center fire rifles or handguns. Most of the year, WMA's are closed to hunting. Those are the kings animals ya know? In the case of E. Tn, it locks up a lot of public land. I can't wait for this to become law.

[Guest Patty]

Yes I do hunt almost year around on WMA's. And its not Big Game either.

[Guest redbarron06]

Actually when/if HB0961 becomes law, it will still be illegal to be in possesion of a firearm while bow hunting or even have someone with you that is armed.

It may or not be a TWRA regulation, but it is the law as well.

There was a bill to change this HB0770/SB0842 but it never seemed to get started.

However I do agree the TWRA can not make any regulation that goes against state law.

I think this will be a similure trump to the loaded long gun. when on a WMA you can still not have a loaded magazine in a vehicle. We need to get some bills pushed to ammend this.

So right not "no carry while bow hunting and no loaded mags in car/truck on a WMA. Maybe we can get both changed in one bill.

[Wingshooter]

Actually when/if HB0961 becomes law, it will still be illegal to be in possesion of a firearm while bow hunting or even have someone with you that is armed.

It may or not be a TWRA regulation, but it is the law as well.

There was a bill to change this HB0770/SB0842 but it never seemed to get started.

However I do agree the TWRA can not make any regulation that goes against state law.

That's the bill I was thinking of (HB0770/SB0842). I emailed the sponsor a month or two ago, and his office responded that it would probably be put off until next year. It sure would be nice to be able to carry a defensive handgun while bow hunting. Didn't mean to detour the thread to another bill...

Back on topic: The WMA bill is a big win for us!

Edited June 20, 2009 by Batman

[K191145]

What set of rules am I agreeing to by just going to a WMA?

I don't hunt (don't have a problem with it though) I'm not going to a WMA to hunt.

Maybe there is another reason I am at the WMA.

I believe this bill when/if it becomes law will allow me to be armed if I am simply just visiting a WMA.

About 20 minutes from where I'm at, Cheatham Co. WMA has a range on it's property open to the public as long as you purchase a range permit at a couple of nearby stores. Right now I have to stop before entering the WMA and unload and store my carry handgun untill I get to the range. It's a pretty popular range sometimes.

[JayC]

I think this will be a similure trump to the loaded long gun. when on a WMA you can still not have a loaded magazine in a vehicle. We need to get some bills pushed to ammend this.

So right not "no carry while bow hunting and no loaded mags in car/truck on a WMA. Maybe we can get both changed in one bill.

Can you point to the law where we're prohibited from carrying loaded long guns in our vehicles on WMA land? I understand there is a law prohibiting possession in the field, but I haven't seen one about possession in a vehicle. Please provide a cite...

[victorcharlie]

Yes I do hunt almost year around on WMA's. And its not Big Game either.

Exactly, that would exclude center fire rilfles or handguns in amost all cases except during a specific season that allows it. I'm also having a bit of a problem with the possession law in regard to HB0961. From the current twra webpage: Firearms Use, possession or transportation of firearms, bows and arrows or other arms and ammunition is expressly prohibited except when authorized. Firearms loaded with ammunition in either the chamber or magazine may not be transported in vehicles. This from the WMA web page: Firearms: Use, possession or transportation of firearms, bows and arrows or other arms and ammunition is expressly prohibited except when authorized. Firearms loaded with ammunition in either the chamber or magazine may not be transported in vehicles, see page 13. Individuals authorized to carry handguns (those with handgun permits) may not carry their sidearms within wildlife management areas except on authorized hunts and then only during specified hunting hours.

Edited June 20, 2009 by victorcharlie

[Guest Patty]

Ok, what is your reason for the problem. When properly posted or now that you have read the rules, and know that you are required to obey them, you can be arrested for this if you are caught breaking this rule, which really is a law, as the TWRA Officers are a branch of the Tennessee State Goverment. It is very tricky to get around this, there are sometimes you might be allowed to carry.

This is what is going to be said, and will happened. Hunters who choose to hunt illegal will now use this to poach, and so in order to prevent this from starting, they are not going to allow anybody to carry. Its just a matter of correct posting for those who have not bought and signed a TWRA hunting license. I don't like it either, but I do choose to follow the rules.

[Fallguy]

Exactly, that would exclude center fire rilfles or handguns in amost all cases except during a specific season that allows it. I'm also having a bit of a problem with the possession law in regard to HB0961. From the current twra webpage: Firearms Use, possession or transportation of firearms, bows and arrows or other arms and ammunition is expressly prohibited except when authorized. Firearms loaded with ammunition in either the chamber or magazine may not be transported in vehicles. This from the WMA web page: Firearms: Use, possession or transportation of firearms, bows and arrows or other arms and ammunition is expressly prohibited except when authorized. Firearms loaded with ammunition in either the chamber or magazine may not be transported in vehicles, see page 13. Individuals authorized to carry handguns (those with handgun permits) may not carry their sidearms within wildlife management areas except on authorized hunts and then only during specified hunting hours.

I believe that is the current law, right?

HB0961 will change some of that I think.

The bill says you can not use the handgun to hunt unless you can do so within in wildlife laws, rules and regulations.

However I'm not hunting at the WMA...I'm just there so I don't see how any "rules of the hunt" would apply only the laws of the state.

If this becomes law the TWRA can not violate the law...as has been said they are part of the government. Some of their rules and regulations will have to change.

[JayC]

Ok, what is your reason for the problem. When properly posted or now that you have read the rules, and know that you are required to obey them, you can be arrested for this if you are caught breaking this rule, which really is a law, as the TWRA Officers are a branch of the Tennessee State Goverment. It is very tricky to get around this, there are sometimes you might be allowed to carry.

This is what is going to be said, and will happened. Hunters who choose to hunt illegal will now use this to poach, and so in order to prevent this from starting, they are not going to allow anybody to carry. Its just a matter of correct posting for those who have not bought and signed a TWRA hunting license. I don't like it either, but I do choose to follow the rules.

I'm sorry Patty, but that is not how the law works, most of TWRA rules are regulations not laws...

The intent of the legislature is for HCP holders to be able to carry a handgun for self protection in all state parks, state forests (and if 0961 becomes law) and state owned WMAs at all times... With one exception being you can't use the handgun to take game unless also allowed under TWRA hunting regulations...

If the TWRA finds some loophole that prevents HCP from carrying all year round on these lands, I'm confident the legislature will close such a loophole in short order (It took less than 2 weeks to close the beer permit loophole).

I'll also note, that the current parks carry and wma carry in regard to state parks, forests, and wmas doesn't allow posting of the property under state law.

I understand TWRA is concerned about poaching, but the fact is HCP holders aren't the problem, and the TWRA to a certain extent is just going to have to get over it.

Edited June 20, 2009 by JayC

[Guest Patty]

JayC, I don't have a problem with someone giving information to correct mine, but if you don't follow the regulations on TWRA property, you will find yourself in a court of law, depending on what regulation was broken, and then once again it will be up to a Judge to determine that in each case. So you can see this anyway you choose at this point. As I do also.

In many locations, TWRA WMA's are off limits with the exception of Hunters who have purchased a WMA permit for the purpose which that WMA allows during that time of the year. Granted some of the WMA's do allow the public access, some of them allow hiking and camping, some allow pleasure boating on them. But TWRA is the Law Enforcement Agency of these WMA's. Some are also govern also by State Park Officers or the Corp. Of Engineers Law Enforcement Officers.

All I am trying to point out is this, we already have the 2nd Amendment right, but yet will still pay a extra fee for the HCP, which really amounts to a tax. But this is a whole different can of worms, if you like. But yet we still don't accept the facts that there are many other rules already in place that we are subjected to, because we have accepted the HCP once we signed on the dotted line for that. When we signed we agreed to follow any and all postings and notices that request that we do not carry.

I just want the 2nd Amendment right given back !, I would like to see anybody who cared to carry. Any where they wanted, there are someplaces that I just don't want to carry into anyways.

So if the right to carry in a WMA passes. Does that mean I can carry in WMA's, one is going to think so, I will have to see how the Regs are written before I attempt to. Because I am a TWRA supporter, I will not create a problem for myself or the officers who are going to be cautious about this.

[Punisher84]

TWRA won't have a thing to say about it. If it passes state law we'll be able to carry there. If TWRA doesn't like it, tough. Their little regulations do not trump state law unless specifically granted the right to do so by the legislature.

[Fallguy]

Patty I agree with you in that you have to otherwise be lawfully allowed on the WMA before you can carry there.

If a WMA say is closed after sunset, then you can't be there period after sunset regardless of carry or not.

My point has simply been if you are otherwise lawfully allowed to be on the WMA, be it because it is public access or whatever other reason, then this law will allow you to carry your handgun if you have a HCP.

Agree?

[Guest Patty]

Once the dust settle's on this one, and I have the rewritten Regs from the TWRA Law Enforcement Division if they do in fact change them, I should be able to agree. But once the law passes, keep in mind that WMA's can and are on leased land, and the land owners also have the right to limit your right to carry. Which means you have the right to carry if I give you permission to. We need to understand the limits of our rights. Sadly as it is, there are limits. The 2nd Amentment is already in effect, but is not within our reach as a general public now. Unless you choose to pay additional to obtain a HCP, for that right. And that right has limits.

Just keep in mind, its hands up and guns down on the ground when you are approached by a TWRA Officer in the wild, so don't be taking that pretty thing in unless you don't mind it in the dirt. lol

[EMTRN]

Just keep in mind, its hands up and guns down on the ground when you are approached by a TWRA Officer in the wild, so don't be taking that pretty thing in unless you don't mind it in the dirt. lol

What do you look like? I have never had to reach for the sky and drop my gun when being checked by a TWRA officer. I duck and deer hunt and have been checked many times. The TWRA officers around here are pretty cool, they have even helped on calls with my dept and others.

[Guest Patty]

Oh I look like a poacher I guess, if that helps explain why it happens. lol, The officers are cool around here to. Are you saying I am making this up ?

[Fallguy]

Once the dust settle's on this one, and I have the rewritten Regs from the TWRA Law Enforcement Division if they do in fact change them, I should be able to agree. But once the law passes, keep in mind that WMA's can and are on leased land, and the land owners also have the right to limit your right to carry. Which means you have the right to carry if I give you permission to. We need to understand the limits of our rights. Sadly as it is, there are limits. The 2nd Amentment is already in effect, but is not within our reach as a general public now. Unless you choose to pay additional to obtain a HCP, for that right. And that right has limits.

Just keep in mind, its hands up and guns down on the ground when you are approached by a TWRA Officer in the wild, so don't be taking that pretty thing in unless you don't mind it in the dirt. lol

I admit I not very familiar with all the aspects of WMAs I admit I thought the land was state owned.

However no matter who owns the land, you can carry unless posted notice is given not to.

As far as being approached by a TWRA officer...or any LEO for that matter, I agree handling your weapon, or if it is already in hand, moving it rapidly or threateningly is a bad idea. But I too think having to drop it to the ground and raising your hands is a bit over the top. Not to say some may not think that is they way it should be, but I think their supervisor should be made aware of it.

[Fallguy]

Ok....I've been looking at the TWRA's website on WMAs Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency

I'm learning a bit more.

It seems the few WMAs I have looked at the land may have some other use maybe even another primary use.

So this bill will just make a exception to the law that blanketly prohibits handgun carry in WMAs for those that have a HCP. Other laws, such as 39-17-1359 would still seem to apply.

Looking at the TWRA Rules and Regulations for Refuges, Wildlife Management Areas, and Public Hunting Areas there doesn't seem to be a general prohibition of possessing a handgun. So it seem the prohibition has been because of 70-4-117 which is being amended by this bill. Also it looks like the TWRA has repealed some and/or repealed various rule and regulations over the years, some due to new laws I'm sure. So I am fairly confident they will make any necessary changes if this bill becomes law.

[Guest 270win]

You can carry what is legal on public hunting land pretty much year round, as long as you have the proper hunting license and WMA permit. I have a sportsman's license. It is $136. I can hunt on any public land without the WMA permit. For example, coyote season is year round. Right now, I can go hiking in Fayette County at Wolf River WMA and claim to be coyote hunting and carry a rimfire handgun, rimfire rifle, or shotgun loaded with #4 shot or smaller. It is that easy. I squirrel hunt out there too during squirrel season. Beavers and little starlings are year round too. If i want to hike, I just stick to my 22LR Browning Buck Mark, carry my hunting license, and I'm good to go. You don't need a handgun carry permit when 'hunting' but of course i carry it anyway because i keep it loaded in my car when i travel to the WMA.

During gun deer season, you can carry a centerfire handgun with a four inch barrel. I generally carry a Glock 19 9mm. The problem TN has is you can't carry any firearm when bow hunting, even if you say want to squirrel hunt when the deer hunting is slow....kind of silly. I guess If you hunt on private land....no one really knows.

[Wingshooter]

Originally posted by Patty

Once the dust settle's on this one, and I have the rewritten Regs from the TWRA Law Enforcement Division if they do in fact change them, I should be able to agree. But once the law passes, keep in mind that WMA's can and are on leased land, and the land owners also have the right to limit your right to carry. Which means you have the right to carry if I give you permission to. We need to understand the limits of our rights. Sadly as it is, there are limits. The 2nd Amentment is already in effect, but is not within our reach as a general public now. Unless you choose to pay additional to obtain a HCP, for that right. And that right has limits.

Just keep in mind, its hands up and guns down on the ground when you are approached by a TWRA Officer in the wild, so don't be taking that pretty thing in unless you don't mind it in the dirt. lol

I would think that if a land owner leases land to the state for the purposes of being used as a WMA, then the land owner agrees to accept the terms of the lease. In that case, it seems that the terms of the lease would include the laws (i.e., this new bill) associated with WMA's.

Personally, I don't think it has to be this complicated. If the state of TN passes a law saying that an HCP holder can carry a handgun on WMA's, then I'm good with that. After all, TWRA officers and officials are employees of the state, right?

Edited June 20, 2009 by Batman

[Wingshooter]

You can carry what is legal on public hunting land pretty much year round, as long as you have the proper hunting license and WMA permit. I have a sportsman's license. It is $136. I can hunt on any public land without the WMA permit. For example, coyote season is year round. Right now, I can go hiking in Fayette County at Wolf River WMA and claim to be coyote hunting and carry a rimfire handgun, rimfire rifle, or shotgun loaded with #4 shot or smaller. It is that easy. I squirrel hunt out there too during squirrel season. Beavers and little starlings are year round too. If i want to hike, I just stick to my 22LR Browning Buck Mark, carry my hunting license, and I'm good to go. You don't need a handgun carry permit when 'hunting' but of course i carry it anyway because i keep it loaded in my car when i travel to the WMA.

During gun deer season, you can carry a centerfire handgun with a four inch barrel. I generally carry a Glock 19 9mm. The problem TN has is you can't carry any firearm when bow hunting, even if you say want to squirrel hunt when the deer hunting is slow....kind of silly. I guess If you hunt on private land....no one really knows.

I agree.