Carry in WMA's bill HB 0961

[GKar]

Signed by governor 7/9/09!!! Finally!

[Fallguy]

Excellent!!

[GKar]

I emailed the TWRA last week about what effect HB0961 would have about a FAQ on their website about no carry guns allowed. They basically said get back in touch when it becomes law. So doesn't sound like they have been making any plans on it.

OK, I just couldn't be patient any longer. Contacted the TWRA office in Morristown (E Tenn reg office), and asked how HR 961, now that it had been signed into law, would be interpreted and enforced - the officer responding informed me that the state law specifically exempted WMAs. I politely indicated that he was referring to a different state law, gave him the citation again: he said they had never heard of it, and would have to wait to be informed by staff attorney in Nashville. Sooooo...

Called TWRA Law enforcement office in Nashville. Gentleman there indicated that their interpretation was that HR 0961 overrode their current rule, and that HCP holders would not be issued a citation for carry as long as they were not demonstrably hunting with a handgun. I inquired about the statements made by the Morristown office RE being unaware of the new law - he replied "Bull !". He did say that he was pretty sure it would be a topic of discussion at the next TWRA meeting, then offered that he was not sure about the interpretation by Cherokee National Forest folks, since it was a NF and might not be affected by state law.

[Fallguy]

Sounds like the Nashville office knows the story.

I am at work today, but I will resend my previous e-mail and ask again, just to have something "on record".

As far as CF...the new law does allow for carry in National Forest maintained by the state, to the extent allowed by Federal Law

So HB0961 does remove any state law against carry in National Forest (also like HB0716) but Federal Laws/Regulations still apply. And has already been discussed, it seems some in charge are using part of the CFR to issue "special orders" to prohibit carry.

[Guest GunTroll]

I hate to ask (didn't read all eleven plus pages)......you guys can't carry in the National Forrest down there (OC or CC)? And this WMA part of it. Is this just for OC or CC?

[Fallguy]

I hate to ask (didn't read all eleven plus pages)......you guys can't carry in the National Forrest down there (OC or CC)? And this WMA part of it. Is this just for OC or CC?

The primary purpose of the bill was to allow those have have HCP to be able to keep their carry gun on them while hunting. Previous law did not allow this.

Also, though I never clearly saw it anywhere, apparently TN law prohibited carry in National Forest, although Federal law didn't. This bill removed any state law against carry in National Forest.

There is no restriction on OC or CC, per state law, in the places that this bill allows for carry in.

The topic of National Forest has come up because they are not covered by the Federal law that will go into effect in Feb 2010 that will allow carry in National Parks.

There is no Federal law against carry in National Forest. However as has been said, Rangers can issue "special orders" for the land/area they are responsiable for. Some of issued Special Orders to prohibit carry in places under their control, such as Land Between the Lakes www.lbl.org

Also some lands are under more than one jurisdiction, such as Cherokee National Forest....since part of it is a state WMA, carry was prohibited there by TN law, regardless of Federal Law or restrictions. Now TN law does not prohibit carry in WMAs or National Forsest and Federal Law does not prohibit carry in National Forest, so the question is, had the ranger in charge of CF issued a special order that prohibits carry.

[GKar]

I've sent a similar email to the CNF "mailroom_r8" addy - if you have a better one, shoot it to me and I'll stuff that mail box, too. I did ask that, if they still interpret carry as prohibited, that they provide a reference to the relevant law/rule.

[Fallguy]

I had just sent an e-mail to the TWRA asking about the effect HB0961 would have on their "No handgun carry" policy.

They wrote back and basically said they could not comment until it became law.

[steamnsteel]

Well if I get checked this weekend I may just be the test case.

[jughead]

does this go into effect when he signed or do we have to wait?

[Fallguy]

does this go into effect when he signed or do we have to wait?

Went into effect immediately

[victorcharlie]

ALLRIGHT!!!!! Now if some bureaucrat at the Cherokee National Parks office doesn't interfere then all is well!

[JayC]

ALLRIGHT!!!!! Now if some bureaucrat at the Cherokee National Parks office doesn't interfere then all is well!

I suspect they have a general order almost exactly worded like the one for LBL... I'm still bugging the crap out of the Rangers office to get a copy of said order, but they have claimed twice now one does exist... But getting the same story out of the people answering the phone is next to impossible, one day they tell me it's against state law, the next they tell me it's against federal law, the next they say they've posted a general order but don't know the number... Just a general run around from them on the subject.

[Guest kkennedy1]

I just spoke with officers at Royal Blue, Guess what there response was? They stated that we can still not carry due to other laws and regulations furthermore they will never allow carry unless new laws are passed. The laws they kept refering were loaded guns in the vehicle, when i asked about unloaded they said no because there were no open hunting season at present. Can anyone help out or have any suggestions., kk

[victorcharlie]

I think the legislation is so new that most of the agencies are not aware of it. In regard to the Cherokee, I called a National forest leo that I met at the local Sportsman's Warehouse. I emailed him the links to the legislation and he told me he would push them up to his supervisors and let me know what the official position was going to be. From his point of view, there is not any federal law or special order that would prevent handgun carry in the Cherokee, and said that state law was what has been preventing this. He told me he would contact the TWRA as well as the National Park Service and respond back to me in a few days. I let him know that I posted on several forums and that many people are waiting to find out how the law will be interpreted. Hopefully, we'll get a better read of the situation soon.

[RRMan03]

He will be fired before they let him give you that info. Do we all see the pattern here. Kinda a US vs Them mentality. Guilty until proven guilty.

[victorcharlie]

Well this guy is definitely for us. Lets hope that is doesn't come to this.

[GKar]

Talked to somebody in the CNF LEo group in Cleveland today. At first, she rattled of a whole series of citations for laws that supposedly governed carry in NFs...but as we chatted, she finally did agree that it seemed it was TWRA and applicable state law that really determined their policy. She was unaware of either the existence or the status of HR 961, and said that, in her opinion, they would have to hear from TWRA before their policy could change.

[Guest lci419]

Here's my question on the topic...I like going to the range up at the Cheatham County Wildlife Management Area. Will I be able to carry as per normal everywhere else (where not prohibited)? And...will I be able to take advantage of the loaded long arms bill so that I can have loaded magazines while on my way to the range?

[Fallguy]

Here's my question on the topic...I like going to the range up at the Cheatham County Wildlife Management Area. Will I be able to carry as per normal everywhere else (where not prohibited)? And...will I be able to take advantage of the loaded long arms bill so that I can have loaded magazines while on my way to the range?

You can carry your handgun in the WMA as long as you not otherwise in violation of any wildlife laws, rules or regulations.

If you have a HCP, then yes you can have your long guns loaded (no round in the chamber) in your vehicle on the way to the range.

[victorcharlie]

Without a doubt the forest service has it's share of liberals. I stopped by the Cleveland office a couple of years ago and talked to the receptionist. She couldn't tell me how she hoped they never allowed guns in the forest and didn't understand why anyone would possibly want one. I finally got the the supervisor over law enforcement and talked with him for a few minutes, face to face. He was IMO a little negative about it, but not totally against it, but pretty much towed the state law line. My understanding is that he's retired now. Hopefully someone, possibly me, will get a better answer in the near future.

[RRMan03]

VC: Good luck. I have lived here for 55 years and all it has gotten is worse. I have close friends that work for the Forest Service out west and they laugh at what goes on here. Everybody out there carries in the NF. You would be an idiot not to carry.Now figure this out.I can carry in a resturant serving alcohol but in the 700,000 acre National Forest I can not. Who in the heck is in charge of this place?

[victorcharlie]

Well, as of now, I think you are allowed to carry. The new law is just slow to trickle out. My guess is it's up to the local DA. Maybe we should be contacting the DA's office rather than the leo's? I think I'll call the DA tomorrow. Tennessee District Attorneys General Conference - 10th Judicial District

Edited July 14, 2009 by victorcharlie

[GKar]

There is a special called meeting of the TWRA Commission by teleconference today; while not publically noted as on the agenda, perhaps something will come forth...

Yeah, I know it's a stretch...

[victorcharlie]

I just got off the phone with Mr. Robinson at the district attorney Generals office in Cleveland TN. Mr. Robinson is the assistant district attorney who prosecutes cases from Polk County TN, the southern end of the Cherokee National Forest. I hope I articulate aspects of our conversation correctly. Mr. Robinson was not aware of the recent change in the law but after reviewing HB0961 informed me that the state of Tennessee would not prosecute nor would TWRA or local law enforcement issue any citation of a lawfully permitted handgun carry holder in possession of a firearm in a WMA. Mr. Robinson indicated his office had no authority in regard to federal law, and that federal law still applied. I am still waiting for a phone call or email back from my acquaintance who is the Leo representing the National Forest Service, but his initial response a couple of days ago was that he was not aware of any federal law or special order that prohibited possession in the National Forest. I would suggest that other members call the DA's office and verify that they receive the same answer I was given.