Metro Davidson Council seeks to override HB0962 on local level

[Guest TargetShooter84]

Metro is full of

[JayC]

Would this affect Wilson and or Rutherford county by chance? If Davidson county wants to take my right to carry in a restaurant away I will be more than glad to take a quick 15 minute drive up 40 or 24 and dine somewhere else. NO GUN FOR ME = NO MONEY FOR YOU

If this works for Nashville, nothing will stop the beer boards for surrounding counties and cities from doing the exact same thing.

One of the few good things about our states firearm laws were that they are the same all over the state. If we let these types of games be played by local county and city governments, we'll all have to carry around a chart to show where we can or can't carry.

[Guest kcnative]

FYI, here is the link to the list of Nashville Council Members, included are phone numbers and email addresses. If you live inside Davidson County you should at least email and/or call all the at large members and any members who cover areas where you live, work, and dine out. Although comments to all wouldn't hurt either.

Nashville.gov - Metro Council - Council Roster

I don't suppose someone would be willing to compile an easily copied/pasted list to populate our address boxes with, eh?

[Volzfan]

They also need to be aware that you have contacted your Rep/Sen about this issue...

All good ideas but my Rep/Sen both voted against HB962 all of the way. I'm drafting my email to the 5 at-large and my councilman now.

[JayC]

I don't suppose someone would be willing to compile an easily copied/pasted list to populate our address boxes with, eh?

As you requested...

Nashville.gov - Metro Council Feedback Form

Step 1 choose "Entire Metro Council" and fill out the rest... Not sure if they'll read the emails but it can't hurt.

I'd also strongly suggest calling too...

[Guest kcnative]

sweet...thanks.

[Guest sstouder]

done. that made it alot quicker thanks.

[Volzfan]

As you requested...

Nashville.gov - Metro Council Feedback Form

Step 1 choose "Entire Metro Council" and fill out the rest... Not sure if they'll read the emails but it can't hurt.

I'd also strongly suggest calling too...

Thanks! I had already sent my email to my councilman and 5 at-large but when you posted this link I went ahead and sent it to everyone. Those 6 will get it twice.

[JayC]

Thanks! I had already sent my email to my councilman and 5 at-large but when you posted this link I went ahead and sent it to everyone. Those 6 will get it twice.

Thanks for emailing, but if you get time to make a personal call and express your thoughts on how this will negativity impact your and/or your business/shopping/dining in Nashville/Davidson County it would help a lot.

These council members aren't getting the full side of the argument only what they read in the paper and hear from a few loud restaurant owners and their paid lobbyist.

[WME]

Perhaps we should insist that if Metro looks to try to eliminate restaurant carry the restaurants should be required to hire off duty Police to provide protection of patrons from dusk to closing. Or, better yet Metro should supply them at no charge to each Nashville Restaurant. If the State has decided that it is necessary and proper for us to carry then there must be some level of danger to their patrons. Put the responsibility and liability back on the Restaurants for the safety of their customers.

Anybody think that the NRA lawyers will show up soon?

[GLOCKMEISTER]

I hope so...

[dunndw]

wow..the response I got from Tygard was thoughtful and well put together:

Thanks for contacting me with your views

Charlie Tygard

That's it. Hell I could write a better form letter sitting on the john with my damn phone. Nice to take the time to state your views, share some insight, all that stucc there Chuck.

Don't get comfy yet ladies and gents...we got another battle coming

[JayC]

Perhaps we should insist that if Metro looks to try to eliminate restaurant carry the restaurants should be required to hire off duty Police to provide protection of patrons from dusk to closing. Or, better yet Metro should supply them at no charge to each Nashville Restaurant. If the State has decided that it is necessary and proper for us to carry then there must be some level of danger to their patrons. Put the responsibility and liability back on the Restaurants for the safety of their customers.

Anybody think that the NRA lawyers will show up soon?

Pushing the cost onto business who would be happy to allow HCP holders isn't the way to win this fight. Businesses should be allowed to weight the pros and cons and post if they do not wish HCP holders as customers. This is a few outspoken critics trying to have their cake and eat it too. They don't want to post their business because they know it will cost them business if they do, so they want to force everybody to be posted.

[JayC]

wow..the response I got from Tygard was thoughtful and well put together:

Thanks for contacting me with your views

Charlie Tygard

That's it. Hell I could write a better form letter sitting on the john with my damn phone. Nice to take the time to state your views, share some insight, all that stucc there Chuck.

Don't get comfy yet ladies and gents...we got another battle coming

Yeah, phone calls work much better he's forced to listen for a few minutes before blowing you off.

It appears these guys don't get a lot of phone calls about stuff, making sure they know there is a large vocal group out there may wave them off this idea.

Remember to mention 39-17-1314 and ask them how they're not impacted by that law...

[macville]

Perhaps we should insist that if Metro looks to try to eliminate restaurant carry the restaurants should be required to hire off duty Police to provide protection of patrons from dusk to closing. Or, better yet Metro should supply them at no charge to each Nashville Restaurant. If the State has decided that it is necessary and proper for us to carry then there must be some level of danger to their patrons. Put the responsibility and liability back on the Restaurants for the safety of their customers.

Anybody think that the NRA lawyers will show up soon?

I think if metro bans handguns, then restaurants should be required to provide an off duty officer--not the government. That way, the restaurant will lobby to remove the law also. The silly part is restaurants HAVE THE RIGHT to post the no carry sign if they don't want someone carrying. Why is it the government's job to tell them what they can do on their PRIVATE property?

Matthew

[eapking]

Well no surprise. The idiots here in Memphis/Shelby County will get wind of this and try it themselves. Short-lived joy here.

[Oh Shoot]

How could this possibly be legal, to duck a state wide statute like this?

Think of all the carry permit holders not only from TN but from other states, who look at state law, then show up in good faith they are following state law, only to be possibly arrested in a municipality.

Surely, the state AG or his office can put the kibosh on these end runs somehow?

- OS

[JayC]

How could this possibly be legal, to duck a state wide statute like this?

Think of all the carry permit holders not only from TN but from other states, who look at state law, then show up in good faith they are following state law, only to be possibly arrested in a municipality.

Surely, the state AG or his office can put the kibosh on these end runs somehow?

- OS

Well, it seems the thought process is they aren't banning guns, they just banning businesses who don't ban guns. And since the beer board is under local city government, they argue it doesn't violate current state law.

Clearly 39-17-1314 seems to prevent this, but I don't want to be the test case...

Best bet is to put pressure on the Metro Council to not move forward because this would violate 39-17-1314 and the will of the people of TN. Second best is to try and get the Legislature to close this type of loophole once and for all.

[Billco]

I just emailed Michael Craddock and Tim Garrett. Being in the hotel/tourism industry for about 20 yrs, that's the angle I took. ie people leaving the county for dining and entertainment and the consideration for Nashville for conventions; the convention planners look at every little thing about prospective sites. It will cost us revenue and add expense in litigation in a time of recessed economy and budget tightening. Maybe they'll listen ... will keep you posted

[Guest kcnative]

Already getting responses:

I am with you.

Thank you for your input.

Karen Bennett

Council District 8

[Guest kcnative]

Another insightful reply from Mr. Tygard:

Thanks for writing

Charlie Tygard

[Guest tlondon]

I dont know if it will do any good as I live in Clarksville, but I just e-mailed ALL the council members and explained that I do alot of dining in Nashville and if the do this there will be alot of money leaving Nashville and going to surrounding counties.

[JayC]

I just emailed Michael Craddock and Tim Garrett. Being in the hotel/tourism industry for about 20 yrs, that's the angle I took. ie people leaving the county for dining and entertainment and the consideration for Nashville for conventions; the convention planners look at every little thing about prospective sites. It will cost us revenue and add expense in litigation in a time of recessed economy and budget tightening. Maybe they'll listen ... will keep you posted

Here are some key talking points...

1. The ordinance as currently worded not only bans HCP Holders but would appear to place a ban on owners and employees from carrying inside their businesses to protect themselves. So they're not just preventing HCP carry, they're also removing rights business owners have today and have had for years.

2. Passing this ordinance will impose a 3-4% loss or more on Davidson County Restaurants while places in Mt Juliet, CoolSprings, Smyrna, and Hendersonville will not have to turn away these customers. This will drive away law abiding citizens from Davidson County restaurants which costs the businesses and the county income and taxes.

3. Arguments that having to post signs may hurt or drive away business are unreasonable. Current law requires that business already have no firearms signs posted (if they serve beer), in all likely hood the additional signage would go unnoticed.

4. Passing an ordinance that if different than the rest of the state needs to required additional signage because we need to inform these law abiding citizens that Metro is different from the rest of the state (which further invalidates #3).

5. It's likely the ordinance would violate 39-17-1314 and it's very likely that the NRA or some other Gun Owners organization will file suit over the ordinance, costing tax payers to spend money defending an illegal ordinance.

6. Other tourism heavy states such as Florida and Texas have allowed restaurant carry for many years, and have had few if any problems resulting from allowing permit holders carry in restaurants. The facts don't support that either state lost tourism dollars from passing restaurant carry laws.

7. Owners today can post their businesses if they do not wish to have HCP holders as customers, while business who may wish to cater to these customers may choose not to post. Just like with smoking bans, the local business owner should be able to make up his mind whether he allows carry or not, the council should not force business to turn away these customers in this economy.

8. HCP Holders aren't the problem, criminals (who can't legally get permits) are the problem, we can cite a number of attacks involving firearms locally over the last few years, but nobody can document a case of a HCP holder illegally opening fire in a restaurant.

9. Does the council member eat at Shoney's or McD's (insert restaurant name here)? If so they most likely have been sitting down to eat next to a permit holder over the last 12+ years, have they felt unsafe in those restaurants?

9. These same claims that blood would run in the street were published in the papers 12+ years ago when HCP was passed, and that is far from the truth, today HCP holders have some of the best safety records of anybody legally (or illegally) carrying firearms in the state.

Hope that helps... Sorry for the rant...

Edited June 5, 2009 by JayC

[JayC]

Already getting responses:

I am with you.

Thank you for your input.

Karen Bennett

Council District 8

Good news, what district is Karen over?

[RinTN]

...

Hope that helps... Sorry for the rant...

I wouldn't call that a rant by any means - just a solid attempt to help others present the facts to those who need to understand the situation. IMO, it's people like you who are willing to take the time to construct posts of this nature that give us the best ammunition for shooting down inane, and almost certainly illegal, local ordinances like the proposed.