Metro Davidson Council seeks to override HB0962 on local level

[Billco]

JayC

Thanks for the helpful info, with your permission(I hope) I copied to file and will use a lot of it

[JayC]

I wouldn't call that a rant by any means - just a solid attempt to help others present the facts to those who need to understand the situation. IMO, it's people like you who are willing to take the time to construct posts of this nature that give us the best ammunition for shooting down the inane, and almost certainly illegal, local ordinances.

Thank you.

We need to try and place pressure on this now, before it gets passed. Loosing 39-17-1314 in anyway shape or form hurts the cause of HCP holders and Hunters all over the state. Having to know different firearm laws for every little city and county in the state would be a nightmare we should all want to avoid.

[Guest 270win]

State pre emption will prevent these problems. I have a good feeling most of the anti gun bed wetters will forget about the 'drunk gun nuts' when they get another edition of their Messiah BO on Commie News Network tomorrow and life will go on as usual. I plan on concealing in public when this law goes into effect has I concealed today.....J frames in a pocket holster reduce a lot of problems and I dont have to worry about being questioned about if I have a permit, am a cop, or asked to leave by a business.

[JayC]

JayC

Thanks for the helpful info, with your permission(I hope) I copied to file and will use a lot of it

Your welcome to... I'm going to try and go over GOA hand gun myths and pull out some more stats to help document how safe HCP users are nation wide compared to police officers.

[JayC]

State pre emption will prevent these problems. I have a good feeling most of the anti gun bed wetters will forget about the 'drunk gun nuts' when they get another edition of their Messiah BO on Commie News Network tomorrow and life will go on as usual. I plan on concealing in public when this law goes into effect has I concealed today.....J frames in a pocket holster reduce a lot of problems and I dont have to worry about being questioned about if I have a permit, am a cop, or asked to leave by a business.

I agree 39-17-1314 appears to prevent this type of ordinance, but how exactly are we to enforce it? The only method I'm aware of is to have somebody with standing file suit against Davidson County (beer board or council, not sure which), and spend lots of money over the next 3, 5, 10 years?

Or go back to the state legislature and get them to close this "loop hole", which will take a nearly a year I'd guess. Keep in mind this is the same legislature that just passed an unclean law allowing local governments to prohibit carry in the parks.

We need to continue the pressure a little while longer to prevent this from getting much worse.

[Guest HexHead]

wow..the response I got from Tygard was thoughtful and well put together:

Thanks for contacting me with your views

Charlie Tygard

That's it. Hell I could write a better form letter sitting on the john with my damn phone. Nice to take the time to state your views, share some insight, all that stucc there Chuck.

Don't get comfy yet ladies and gents...we got another battle coming

I've always considered him a douchebag. Thanks for verifying it for me.

[cadillacdude1975]

this is yet another problem with politics. a state law should be just that, a state law. period.

[Billco]

Ole Charlie is on his game tonight, ain't he:lol:

[Guest tonybon]

ok! as for me ill keep my money and eat at home. if all hcp holders would do this just untill the 14th mabey the restaurants will change the way they look at it. its what? 30days!

[Guest KevinM]

Here are some key talking points...

.....

Hope that helps... Sorry for the rant...

Sorry? I don't think I have seen a list this great and concise of talking points on this issue. Nice work.

[FlyboyLDB]

...... The only method I'm aware of is to have somebody with standing file suit against Davidson County (beer board or council, not sure which), and spend lots of money over the next 3, 5, 10 years?

In Georgia we have an organization called GeorgiaCarry.org that goes after cities, counties, LE, etc when state laws have been vilolated. You guys in TN need a similar setup. All supported by Volunteers, including the attorneys. Membership and fundraisers help offset their cost.

I do not know how the preemption law in TN affects cities and counties. But it sure would be nice if a group of attorneys could join hands and make an example here. And that people would step up and offset their cost.

[GLOCKMEISTER]

The point you guys need to make is this. Going around state law and the legislature will only mean they will change the state law to where localities will not have jurisdictional authority over beer anymore... or at least amend the current law to undo what they are trying to loophole.

These bills passed both the house and senate with an overwhelming majority... Dont they realize they can get other legislation passed easily too?

[Guest sstouder]

posted this in other thread so ill post it here too:

got this from robert duvall:

First of all thank you for writing. I will fight any effort put forth to

circumvent our Constitutional Rights.

I hope you do not mind, but I thought I would make you aware of the

following event, in case you would like to participate. Please read below

my name.

Sincerely,

Robert Duvall (the event is the friends of the nra thing happening later this month)

also got this from duane dominy:

Thank you for sharing! I find this proposed end-run around the new state law shameful. I assure you that I will do all that is within my power to defend our second amendment rights.

I would also encourage you to attend the upcoming Friends of the NRA banquet here in Nashville on June 13. You may get more information and tickets at the link below.

http://www.friendsofnra.org/Events.aspx?sid=44&sc=TN

Keep up the fight,

Duane Dominy

and lastly got this from Karen Bennett:

I am with you.

Thank you for your input.

Karen Bennett

Council District 8

[Volzfan]

Another insightful reply from Mr. Tygard:

Thanks for writing

Charlie Tygard

I got the same email so I wrote back saying that I was glad to know he got my email but I wanted to know what his thoughts were on the subject.

Then this from Robert Duvall

First of all thank you for writing. I will fight any effort put forth to

circumvent our Constitutional Rights.

I hope you do not mind, but I thought I would make you aware of the

following event, in case you would like to participate. Please read below

my name.

Sincerely,

Robert Duvall

And this from Duane Dominy

Thank you for sharing! I find this proposed end-run around the new state law shameful. I assure you that I will do all that is within my power to defend our second amendment rights.

I would also encourage you to attend the upcoming Friends of the NRA banquet here in Nashville on June 13. You may get more information and tickets at the link below.

http://www.friendsofnra.org/Events.aspx?sid=44&sc=TN

Keep up the fight,

Duane Dominy

District 28 Councilman

101 Cherokee Place

Antioch, TN 37013

615-831-0774

Edited June 5, 2009 by Volzfan

[Guest HexHead]

The point you guys need to make is this. Going around state law and the legislature will only mean they will change the state law to where localities will not have jurisdictional authority over beer anymore... or at least amend the current law to undo what they are trying to loophole.

These bills passed both the house and senate with an overwhelming majority... Dont they realize they can get other legislation passed easily too?

Actually, the good that can come from this is the abolishment of beer boards and bring beer under the state's liquor license. Sometimes you gotta love the law of unintended consequences. Metro thinks they can ban it and may end up having the authority stripped away completely.

[Volzfan]

I got the 2nd reply back from Charlie Tygard

Have sponsored the legislation to let the community debate begin

Charlie

[RinTN]

I got the 2nd reply back from Charlie Tygard

If I'm reading that right, it sounds to me like the reason he didn't state his opinion before was that he's the guy that's pushing for this - "to let the community debate begin" my !

[AH1356]

So we will be able to carry in the restaurants that serve wine but not beer in Metro if this passes? Are there ANY restaurants in Nashville that serve wine but not beer? I live in Williamson county, so none of these council members care what I think.

If this foolishness passes I'll be brewing more of my own. A good homebrew beats most commercial beers anyway. The founding fathers were all gun owners and most were brewers. What could be more American than brewing a batch of beer with a gun on your hip?

And no, governor, there is no alcohol present before fermentation, so I'm not "mixing guns and alcohol."

Cheers,

Aaron

[Guest Ravendove]

Well I'll bite. I wrote to the legislature quite a bit to get this law passed. I suppose it's time to break out the linguistic skills again. I think it might be best to write to them individually, though, rather than all at once through the "entire council" thing. They probably see that in the recipients section and immediately dismiss it. Something is better than nothing but remember, you get out what you put in. I'll probably spend the next few hours figuring out exactly what I'm going to say.

[Guest thorn]

How can these pinheads ignore all the criminal activity in their cities and counties and sheople will just go along with it. **** me you'll find a fascist in every crowd.

They just need to be convinced that it would be wrong to spend tax dollars to segregate and license freedom when the businesses will already be blackballed by the citizens whom they target.

[Guest archerdr1]

someone mentioned that all who live in Davidson county need to write, but I think that all of us that do not need to write too stating that we, as tourists, will refuse to come to that county to do our tourism. In the same time as I can get to Nashville (which I do several times a year either on business or pleasure) I can get to Knoxville, Pigeon Forge, or anywhere else to do my vacations. Not only will this bill hurt the restaurants, but ALL of the businesses that live off of the tourism bucks in certain times of year. I am going to write all of the members of the City Counsel when I get off of work.

[Volzfan]

Well I'll bite. I wrote to the legislature quite a bit to get this law passed. I suppose it's time to break out the linguistic skills again. I think it might be best to write to them individually, though, rather than all at once through the "entire council" thing. They probably see that in the recipients section and immediately dismiss it. Something is better than nothing but remember, you get out what you put in. I'll probably spend the next few hours figuring out exactly what I'm going to say.

I sent one to all but used the BCC address line. Of course you can't call them by name that way either. I'm getting responses already and all but Tygard have said that they are against this effort. I'll send individual emails to specific members that either don't reply or tell me they want to limit our rights.

[OngoingFreedom]

Wrote the whole council (thanks for the great link), Senator Black, Representative Maggart and the NRA-ILA:

Dear Senator Black and Representative Maggart,

Yesterday I sent both of you thanks for your support of HB 0962 /SB 1127, which is now law and takes effect on July 14th, 2009.

Today I am writing you out of concern that the counties of Tennessee, Davidson County in particular, are attempting an end run around the new law, preempting Tennessee law which is in violation of such. I live in Gallatin, Sumner County but work in Davidson County. As I understand it the Metro Council is trying to strong-arm restaurants by forcing them to post signs prohibiting handguns or have their beer license revoked.

I have just emailed the entire Metro Council the following:

“Yesterday, June 4, 2009, the General Assembly overturned the Governor's veto of HB 0962 /SB 1127 "Guns in Restaurants" which is now law, to take effect July 14th. It is my understanding that you are attempting to circumvent this law by forcing restaurants that serve beer to post the "No Guns" sign or have their ability to serve beer revoked. You are attempting to preempt the State and that is against the law.

TCA 39-17-1314. Local regulation of firearms and ammunition preempted by state regulation — Actions against firearms or ammunition manufacturers, trade associations or dealers. — (a) No city, county, or metropolitan government shall occupy any part of the field of regulation of the transfer, ownership, possession or transportation of firearms, ammunition or components of firearms or combinations thereof; provided, that the provisions of this section shall be prospective only and shall not affect the validity of any ordinance or resolution lawfully enacted before April 8, 1986.

I am a resident of Sumner County but work in Davidson County. As of July 14th I will only visit restaurants that do not restrict my right to carry my handgun... I have applied for my Handgun Carry Permit (HCP) and anticipate having it before the 14th. Should you continue this action not only will you have a legal fight (read: expensive) with the State of Tennessee and the National Rifle Association (NRA) but these restaurants will not get my business, as I have discretion on which county I choose to enjoy a fine meal.

I am forwarding a copy of this letter to Senator Diane Black and Representative Debra Maggart, and to the NRA of which I am a member.”

I will follow through with my threat. Please take what action is necessary to prevent this from happening. If the Council gets away with this other counties and cities will quickly follow suit, nullifying the law you worked so hard to pass.

Thank you very much.

Sincerely,

xxxx

[Guest HexHead]

I just sent this to ALL the Metro Council members...

Dear Council Members,

I thought I saw the granddaddy of bad ideas with the new convention center, but now you guys appear to have totally lost your minds.

The State legislature is their wisdom, yes in their wisdom, using FACTS, overwhelmingly supported the Guns in Restaurants bill. FACT: 37 states allow this practice with no problems from their well over one million licensed handgun carry permit holders. You can be sure if there were problems, the Tennessean would have gladly run as many stories as they could these past few weeks. Yet there were no such articles. I wonder why?

The Council is obviously being influenced by the liberal leanings of a few restaurant owners who under this law have the ability to simply post their establishment not to allow HCP holders from entering armed. Let me point out that HCP holders are the most law abiding group in this state and will follow that law, just as they will not to drink in the establishments that choose not to post.

The Council is gearing up to violate TCA 39-17-1314 and it's very likely that the NRA or some other Gun Owners organization will file suit over the ordinance, costing tax payers to spend money defending an illegal ordinance.

I've read that this is necessary to "not send the wrong message to tourists" by them seeing "posted" signs everywhere. So when permit holders from other states travel here and check the State law on carrying in restaurants and find they run afoul of a local law, do you really think that will help tourism? You're also going to run local HCP holders out of county to spend their discretionary income on food and drink. It's just as easy for me to go to Cool Springs to eat at a nice restaurant as to go downtown. Which I'll be doing. I may really like Neely's BBQ, but will develop a preference for Carl's Perfect Pig. I have lots of options.

The State Legislature is unlikely to allow this move to stand. I wouldn't be surprised to see your local beer board taken away and beer rolled into the State liquor license. Which is obviously the way it should be, as evidenced by this stupid proposal. You are trying to override the will of the people using extortion and duress. I'm sure you're all proud of yourselves.

Thanks for your time.

[Fallguy]

From what little bit of looking up I've done...here is what I've found.

First TN law on this gives different amounts of authority to Class A counties (Counties with no metro government) and Class B counties (counties with a metro government) Incorporated cities and towns.

It appears that in Class A Counties they can only enact restrictions on beer permits as provided in 57-5-105 as backed up in AG opinion 05-024

However in 57-5-106 Class B counties, Incorporated cities and towns can in addition to the restrictions allowed in 57-5-105 may "impose additional restrictions, fixing zones and territories and provide hours of opening and closing and such other rules and regulations as will promote public health, morals and safety as they may by ordinance provide." In AG opinion 06-082 the AG opined that a city could prohibit anyone convicted of DUI from getting a permit or even working in a place that has a beer permit. However they said that if someone had a ABC (liquor) server permit (issued by the state), they could not prevent them from working in a place with a beer permit. It also goes on to list court cases where many local ordnance were upheld upon challenge and one that wasn't.

However I'm not sure if any of the restrictions upheld could possible be in violation of state preemption law like firearms in 39-17-1314.

With all that said...it would seem that Class B counties, incorporated cities and towns do have wide authority to attach restrictions to beer permits. Whether that includes being able to regulate the possession of firearms, in possible violation of 39-17-1314 is to be determined I guess.