Official Thread for TN House / Senate Override of HB0962 Gubernatorial Veto

[Motasyco]

I think the key may be that the bill itself states June 1st as the effective date. That could be why the date was included to begin with. Without that the 40 days could probably not be disputed. I hope they make it clear for us when the override is anounced.

[Guest SUNTZU]

Moving? Moving? And leave that little slice of heaven you call home?

"Movin' on up

(Movin' on up)

to the east side

(Movin' on up)

We've finely got our piece of the pie"

:rofl:

[waynesan]

I just looked up and read HB0962 and I don't see anything in the bill about a June 1 effective date. It does say:

"This act shall take effect upon becoming a law, the public welfare requiring"

And SB1127 says the same thing. Does anyone know where the June 1 date came from? Was it added on somewhere but not made part of the original bill that you can read online?

[Punisher84]

I just looked up and read HB0962 and I don't see anything in the bill about a June 1 effective date. It does say:

"This act shall take effect upon becoming a law, the public welfare requiring"

And SB1127 says the same thing. Does anyone know where the June 1 date came from? Was it added on somewhere but not made part of the original bill that you can read online?

The Senate added it in and the House adopted I believe.

[Falcon1]

The Tennessean on line this morning states that it takes 40 days for the law to become effective. Giving a date of mid-July before restaurant carry is legal. Does anyone know if this is factual or does it go into effect upon the signitures of both of the speakers?

Did those previous opinions apply to laws that already has an effective date that had been passed? Anyone got enough pull to get clarification on this?

I think the key may be that the bill itself states June 1st as the effective date. That could be why the date was included to begin with. Without that the 40 days could probably not be disputed. I hope they make it clear for us when the override is anounced.

The Senate added it in and the House adopted I believe.

IANAL, so take this for what it is. I just looked up AG Opinions, and I fear The Tennessean may be correct, or at least have precedent to back up what they are saying. The only place I saw anything about forty days in an AG opinion was in a footnote to AG 08-167, which did deal with a situation where a law was approved by the governor after the date listed in the legislation. So, the AG said, the law took effect forty days after the governor signed it according to Sections 18 and 20 of Article II of the Tennessee Constitution. I looked at those sections and also at Article III, Section 18, dealing with vetoes and overrides, and I found no exception to the forty-day provision for overrides. Again, IANAL, but we may be waiting forty days, ladies and gentlemen. :-\

I've posted this over at TFAOnline, and the executive director there is a constitutional lawyer. I'll update here when I hear something more definitive.

Edited June 4, 2009 by Falcon1

[Fallguy]

What are the criteria for properly posting..

size, color, location(s), wording???

Doc44

See this http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/firearms-law-faq/21580-tca-39-17-1359-tennessee-prohibition-carry-notice.html

[Guest jg45]

That was most likely part of Bredesen's plan to delay this as long as possible.

[Fallguy]

The Senate added it in and the House adopted I believe.

That is correct.

The final version of what was adopted can bee seen here

[Fallguy]

IANAL, so take this for what it is. I just looked up AG Opinions, and I fear The Tennessean may be correct, or at least have precedent to back up what they are saying. The only place I saw anything about forty days in an AG opinion was in a footnote to AG 08-167, which did deal with a situation where a law was approved by the governor after the date listed in the legislation. So, the AG said, the law took effect forty days after the governor signed it according to Sections 18 and 20 of Article II of the Tennessee Constitution. I looked at those sections and also at Article III, Section 18, dealing with vetoes and overrides, and I found no exception to the forty-day provision for overrides. Again, IANAL, but we may be waiting forty days, ladies and gentlemen. :-\

I've posted this over at TFAOnline, and the executive director there is a constitutional lawyer. I'll update here when I hear something more definitive.

Of course IANAL either....but I looked at the info you referenced and I'm afraid there is a chance The Tennessean very well may be correct.

For anyone curious, the constitution actually says all laws do not become effective until 40 days after passage, unless it has a caption saying that public welfare requires it to take effect sooner.

Of course this bill had that caption, and you would think that simply because the process ran beyond that time the publics welfare is no less in need and should not have to wait 40 days. But....who knows...

Hopefully we can get more definite information soon...

[Guest HexHead]

SECTION 2. This act shall take effect on June 1, 2009, the public welfare requiring it.

Since the effective date is clearly spelled out in the bill, how can it be pushed aside? It's not like any of the other provisions of the bill can just be ignored.

Edited June 4, 2009 by HexHead

[Punisher84]

Since the effective date is clearly spelled out in the bill, how can it be pushed aside? It's not like any of the other provisions of the bill can just be ignored.

I'm thinking you're correct. It was specifically stated in the bill.

[Guest HexHead]

Of course IANAL either....but I looked at the info you referenced and I'm afraid there is a chance The Tennessean very well may be correct.

Well, that would be a first!

For anyone curious, the constitution actually says all laws do not become effective until 40 days after passage, unless it has a caption saying that public welfare requires it to take effect sooner.

Of course this bill had that caption, and you would think that simply because the process ran beyond that time the publics welfare is no less in need and should not have to wait 40 days. But....who knows...

Hopefully we can get more definite information soon...

Sure sounds like that's the out. But of course liberals want to interpret the(ir) intent of Constitutions, not what they actually say.

Edited June 4, 2009 by HexHead

[Falcon1]

Since the effective date is clearly spelled out in the bill, how can it be pushed aside? It's not like any of the other provisions of the bill can just be ignored.

A valid question, and the answer may well be different in this case than in the one dealt with in the AG Opinion, but this is what the footnote said:

Section 2 of Chapter 1187 states that the "act will take effect 12:01 a.m. July 1, 2008, the public welfare requiring it." However, the act did not become law until it was approved by Governor Phil Bredesen on July 18, 2008, and cannot take effect before that date. Thus, pursuant to Article II, Sections 18 and 20 of the Tennessee Constitution, the act took effect on August 27, 2008, 40 days after its approval by the Governor.

[Fallguy]

One major difference between HB0962 and the bill refrenced in AG OP 08-167 is the bill in the AG OP didn't get to the governor till after the efective date, HB0962 did.

Then it was vetoed and sent back to the General Assembly.

Wonder if that does/can make a difference.

[Falcon1]

One major difference between HB0962 and the bill refrenced in AG OP 08-167 is the bill in the AG OP didn't get to the governor till after the efective date, HB0962 did.

Then it was vetoed and sent back to the General Assembly.

Wonder if that does/can make a difference.

I sure hope it does!

[titan14]

One major difference between HB0962 and the bill refrenced in AG OP 08-167 is the bill in the AG OP didn't get to the governor till after the efective date, HB0962 did.

Then it was vetoed and sent back to the General Assembly.

Wonder if that does/can make a difference.

Let's hope so!

[enfield]

AG opinions are NOT law -- they're just one lawyer's opinion.

[Falcon1]

AG opinions are NOT law -- they're just one lawyer's opinion.

Very true, but they are respected by the state government until contradicted in a court or overridden by legislative action. After all, an AG opinion is what we rely on in Tennessee for the legality of open carry.

[Fallguy]

AG opinions are NOT law -- they're just one lawyer's opinion.

Yes, we know that.

We are just referencing something in an opinion that the AG refereed to, that happened.

It was not the AG's opinion that a bill has to wait 40 days, he was just citing an example as to when that actually happened and referenced the applicable sections of the TN Constitution.

[Tnscooter63]

anyone know if there is a streaming video for todays senate session

[Guest db99wj]

anyone know if there is a streaming video for todays senate session

General Assembly Schedule

[Guest db99wj]

I have sent a text to Todd on the 40 day thing. Hopefully he will respond soon.

[Wingshooter]

40 days... let's hope not.

I've been sitting here expecting the senate video to start at any time... Central time is throwin' me off again

[Fallguy]

Session starts 10:00am central.

Video should be up shortly before that.

[Guest thorn]

Session starts 10:00am central.

Video should be up shortly before that.

Just curious, when it starts do they talk about Selenium 1st? :blah: