California better than Georgia?

[mousegunner]

Georgia has more places off limits to bearing arms than California

May 30, 10:25 AM · 10 comments

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Georgia or California: Which place has more off limits locations to bearing, i.e., actually carrying, a firearm. California has more than 50,000 people with firearms licences.

Oleg Volk, A Human Right

California is a "may issue" state.

But, if you are one of the more than 50,000 people who have a firearms license in California, are you better off than a Georgian? Prior to July of 2008, the members of GeorgiaCarry.Org, Inc. contended that Georgia had more places off limits to the bearing of arms than any state in the nation. Now, in 2009, Georgia still has more places off limits than California. Most people assume California is highly restrictive of the right to bear arms and that Georgia is a “gun friendly state.†Are these twin assumptions justified?

Let us examine California’s off limits list in detail and compare it to Georgia’s list.

California Law - Public Buildings and Meetings Legal

California Penal Code Section 171b bans the carry of firearms to public meetings and public buildings, but it exempts “[a] person holding a valid license to carry the firearm pursuant to Article 3 (commencing with Section 12050) of Chapter 1 of Title 2 of Part 4.†See 171b((3). Therefore, this law does not apply to a person holding a firearms license at all, meaning it is legal to carry a firearm to a “public meeting†in California.

Georgia Law - Crime!

This is a crime in Georgia. See O.C.G.A. § 16-11-127, the public gathering law, which places all publicly owned buildings off limits, even the bathrooms at interstate rest stops. Case law in Georgia has held that the parking lots of public gatherings are

themselves public gatherings and thus off limits, as well as parking lots on neighboring properties within 200 yards of public gatherings.

California Law - State Capitol Legal

California Penal Section 171c makes it a crime to carry a firearm into the State Capitol Building in Sacramento (along with committee meeting rooms, legislative offices, and the Governor’s office), but, again, excepts a “person holding a valid license to carry the firearm pursuant to Article 3 (commencing with Section 12050) of Chapter 1 of Title 2 of Part 4.†In other words, again, this is no crime in California if you hold a firearms license.

Georgia Law - Crime!

Carrying a firearm into the State Capitol Building in Atlanta is a crime two different ways in Georgia. See O.C.G.A. §§ 16-11-127 and 16-11-34.1. Although most Georgia legislators park in the parking lot with pistols in their cars, the parking lot of a public gathering has been held to be a public gathering by the Georgia appellate courts.

California Law - Governor’s Mansion Legal

California Penal Section 171d makes it a crime to carry a firearm into the Governor’s Mansion in Sacramento, unless, again, you have a license (or if you are a member of the Governor’s family or a police officer). In other words, this is not a crime in California.

Georgia Law - Crime!

This is, of course, a crime in Georgia, as the building is publicly owned. See O.C.G.A. § 16-11-127.

California - Schools Legal

Well, surely California places its schools off limits, right? Wrong. Not only are license holders not committing a crime by carrying at colleges and universities, but California follows the example of the federal Gun Free School Zones Act and completely exempts people holding a firearms license, even for carrying to public kindergarten through 12th grade schools.

Ironically, it is illegal to have ammunition on school grounds in California, unless, of course, you have a firearms license. Penal Code 12316©.

In California, Penal Code Section 626.9, the Gun Free School Zones Act of 1995, makes it illegal to carry a firearm at a school and lists out all of the terrible penalties associated with the crime, but it also lists exemptions, such as police officers, and, there it is again, license holders. See 626.9(l). Just to make it clear, California is talking about public or private k-12. See 626.9(e)(1). It is also talking about Universities. 626.9(h) and (i).

Georgia Law - Crime!

Georgia makes this a felony (which means the loss of right to vote and keep and bear arms for life), and Georgia does not limit this to public schools or even elementary and secondary schools. In Georgia, it is a felony even for 60 year old graduate students, even with a firearms license, and even in a glovebox in the parking lot. Georgia’s law even applies to adult technical and vocational schools. If you want to take a welding class (to develop the skills needed in restoring your 1966 GTO), you would be completely disarmed, even while driving to and from class, under pain of a felony prosecution with 10 years in prison and a $15,000 fine.

The same applies to visitors at schools in Georgia.

Public Gatherings

In the interest of making the comparison more complete, it is imperative to point out that Georgia has a great many other restrictions California has never seen fit to adopt. For example, Georgia makes it a crime to bear arms to or while at any place that serves alcohol other than a restaurant, a place of worship, a sporting event, and at undefined "public gatherings" generally, including the parking lots and even parking up to 200 yards away off of the premises. No other state in the nation criminalizes carry at “public gatherings†generally. California does not criminalize carry at any of these places.

Airports

Georgia attempted to decriminalize the carry of firearms on mass transit, including planes, trains, and buses, such as MARTA by changing the public gathering law to override the mass transit law that banned firearms in the buildings, parking lots, and

even the bus stops and a “reasonable distance adjacent†to the bus stops, whatever that means. While the change appears to have been successful for the most part, the City of Atlanta announced a ban on firearms in its airport. A federal court in Atlanta and the Eleventh Circuit Court of Appeals refused GeorgiaCarry.Org's attempt to enjoin Atlanta's ban. See court rules that legislator did not mean what he said.

A violation of this Georgia law is a felony with a penalty of 20 years in prison and a $15,000 fine. California has no restrictions on bearing arms in its airports.

Miscellaneous

As of this writing, Georgia also criminalizes bearing arms at in Public Fishing Areas. Although one can carry firearms in buildings in State Parks, it is illegal to use the restroom in city and county parks while armed, so visitors must "hold it" in the parks or pee outside. Combining this restriction with the interstate rest stops, we have to wonder what it is that the Georgia General Assembly has against people who are bearing arms using the restroom. Maybe Georgia could at least have segregated "armed and "unarmed" restrooms where it is legal for those with a firearms license to visit the facilites.

Conclusion

In sum, California, the state assumed to restrict and burden the right to bear arms, permits the bearing of arms in elementary schools, colleges, the State Capitol Building, the Governor’s Mansion, town hall, police stations, libraries, and in airports. Georgia, the state assumed to permit the free exercise of the right to bear arms, criminalizes the bearing of arms in all of these locations, in some cases imposing a felony charge, even if the person bearing a pistol has a firearms license issued pursuant to Georgia law. Hopefully, this short article has challenged your assumptions regarding the right to bear arms in Georgia and in California. In addition, by providing the actual Code Sections, it is hoped that this article will provide you with some of the intellectual ammunition you need to return Georgia’s right to bear arms to an actual “right,†rather than

an overburdened “privilege.â€

Ed Stone is the President of GeorgiaCarry.org, Inc. He is a practicing attorney and a former police officer, and he believes that “bear†means “carry.â€

[Fallguy]

It does seem that if you can get one of the rarely issued permits in some of the may issue states, there are a lot fewer places off limits than in many other states.

Edited June 3, 2009 by Fallguy

[Warbird]

Just try getting a carry permit in California.

[Guest SUNTZU]

That's because there are what, three people with carry permits in California? And they are all working in government, thus the necessity of being allowed to carry in the allowed areas.

[oldogy]

I've lived in both while in the military. Give me GA any time.

oldogy

[RinTN]

Just try getting a carry permit in California.

That was my thought too. I don't know how many permit holders there are in Georgia, but 50,000 isn't very many when California has a population of about 37,000,000 residents. As a percentage, that's only about .135% of California residents.

By comparison, the CA says that there are about 220,000 permit holder in TN. Since we have a population of maybe 6,500,000, that would put us at about 3.4% - with more and more being issued daily.

So, if you can get a permit in CA, then the laws sound pretty good. But, I suspect that getting one in GA or TN is a *lot* easier than getting one in CA. And, if you can't get a permit, it doesn't matter too much what the law says you can do when you have one.

[Guest canynracer]

It is hard to get a carry license there...it could take up to two years...but once you got it..you are golden.

[Guest HexHead]

It is hard to get a carry license there...it could take up to two years...but once you got it..you are golden.

Mostly in the northern inland rural areas. Try and get one along the coast, in SF or So. CA. Not gonna happen.

[creeky]

It is hard to get a carry license there...it could take up to two years...but once you got it..you are golden.

...or would you call it being "Blessed" by the higher powers of California.

[Guest 270win]

If you live in the right county, I have heard it isn't too hard to get a license in California. The hard places are LA County, the Bay area, and lesser extent San Diego County. If a friend of mine lived in Orange County a few years ago, instead of LA County, my friend would have had a much better chance at getting a license. The more rural counties are basically shall issue. A lot depends on the sheriff and/or police chief.

California is proof that LICENSED people do not go nuts when they can carry anywhere they please. Alabama is also proof because you can carry anywhere down there, except for protests......Alabama licensees are able to carry on all school grounds, bars, restaurants, signs mean nothing, and the list goes on.