Any interest in staging a Pro-Carry protest against a restaurant that bans?

[JayC]

The entire reason to have business insurance is to defend your business from different types of civil lawsuits. Anything from slip and falls, to wrongful death.

And you're correct your rates do go up for a short period of time whenever you have a claim on your policy (my experience 3-4 years)... But largely you have no control over who files a lawsuit against you... Trust me if you run a business that is open to the public (like say a restaurant) then you're going to have a claim on your insurance before too long. People will file suit over the dumbest things (for example being so drunk they slip out of a chair and hit the ground, even though you refused them service - not a single drink - because they were too drunk - yes that happened and the insurance company paid out on it).

From my experience customers largely don't notice gun issues, they don't pick a place to eat based off of whether they allow HCP or not, they're just oblivious to it (much like how they don't notice you carrying a gun 95% of the time)... I'm not going to end up on a list for not posting, my business name isn't going to be in the paper, nor posted all over internet sites for allowing people to carry. A few very liberal people might notice, and might even say something... but I'm not going to loose much business over not posting.

On the other hand, if I post, I'm going to have a TFA/TGO forum post listing my business and asking people not to do business with me... I might get in a list from the NRA/GOA/etc emailed out to all their members asking them to not come to my restaurant... And some % of HCP holders are going to skip my restaurant because the one down the street allows carry and I don't. (Trust me, we've seen this from smoking...) I for sure can't afford a 1%-4% drop in sales in this economy.... Or worse pass up an increase of 1%-4% in sales from HCP holders who will now consider my restaurant...

I know from experience that insurance rates aren't significantly different between states which allow carry in restaurants vs states like TN (currently) which do not. If there was a real cost increase to the insurance company they would pass it along... We may see a rash of incidents, and insurance rates may go up, but I seriously doubt it...

Here is the general rule of thumb... If it reduced costs more than the negative issues with allowing it, do you think McD's, Burger King, Shoney's, Sears, Walmart and other such business would be posted? While you have a point, a HCP shoots somebody in your business somebody is going to file a lawsuit... but if you post, and a HCP who would otherwise have been able to carry gets hurt/killed, which lawsuit do you think is going to hurt more? The lawsuit arguement can cut both ways...

Posting seems to carry a lot of negatives, and very few positives...

Now, for the record, both my family, and my wife's family are involved in the restaurant business in Middle TN for many decades each. I'm technically a manager grade employee in one of the businesses (which has given me the added bonus of being able to legally carry in those restaurants)... Because the news media and bloggers check these forums on a regular basis I'm not disclosing which restaurants just because I don't want my comments showing up in the paper, and also for the record, these comments are my personal feelings on the subject not official policy of either business.

On another note, I can tell you that for years I've just not eaten in other restaurants because I wasn't able to legally carry... I'd drive out of my way or select restaurants for business meetings based on whether I could carry or not... I'm looking forward to going out to a non-family owned place this weekend and getting a meal (more importantly my wife is really looking forward to it). While I maybe the exception to the rule here, my guess is I'm not alone.

I also honestly think most restaurants will not post, because there is very little or no upside to posting.

I was unaware that businesses used their insurance company to fight civil lawsuits as the result of a gun being brandish or a shooting at their establishment.

Like all businesses, insurance companies are in business to make money. They will more than likely increase your insurance premiums for having to render services in defending your business.

Whether the restaurant/bar owners use their insurance (when applicable) or hire their own lawyers still results in paying more money (decrease in profits) to run their business.

Pretend I am the owner of a restaurant called Arnold’s and this establishment serves alcohol for consumption on site. The bulk of my paying customers are going to be non-HCP holders given the fact that HCP holders are a very small minority compared to the general populace. If my customers express concern about allowing people to “carry in bars†due to the spread of misinformation by the media outlets with their anti-gun bias, I would post my business to keep my paying patrons.

There is another consideration for posting a ban of firearms at my establishment; by posting the ban of firearms, in the rare event of an incident with a HCP holder and other patrons sue my business, it should be easier to get the lawsuits dismissed since firearms are banned at my establishment. This means less money will be spent on lawyers. Otherwise, unless there is a precedent set by another court case like mine, I will need to go through a more expensive defense that is costing me more money for allowing firearms for HCP holders at my establishment.

I wish David and all others that participate in the peaceful protest success in getting our message across in a positive manner. We are all on the same side. We just see different ways of solving the problem.

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[Guest blackbeltchick]

Count me in.

[threeshot]

Hey when you go back to work @ Arnolds Threeshot..tell the Fonz HEYYYYYY for me :-)

LOL... I was wondering if anyone would remember the TV show Happy Days.

[guntalk]

Excellent idea. I will have to buy some of these.

[dralarms]

Excellent idea. I will have to buy some of these.

If your talking about the "gun cards" don't buy them, at least not the ones I saw here, they had ohio law not Tn law. I've got the Tn law one's on a PDF file, print one side, turn it over and print the other side and you have the cards. Pm me with your email addy and I'll send the files to you.

Edited June 7, 2009 by dralarms