Any interest in staging a Pro-Carry protest against a restaurant that bans?

[deerslayer]

Since some people have used firearms to commit crimes, I will send your local LEO's over to collect all firearms in your possession. I don't think you should own them, because you will inevitably become a criminal while using a firearm.

Since some people act stupid after they drink, I don't think we should make it perfectly legal for them to go to their local watering hole while armed and naively expect them to not drink. If this is allowed, I fear that some bar patron will inevitably become a criminal, and do us unrecoverable damage in the process. Hopefully I am wrong.

[Guest KevinM]

jeapordize our (fragile IMO) HCP privileges?

Privileges?

[Guest KevinM]

Since some people act stupid after they drink, I don't think we should make it perfectly legal for them to go to their local watering hole while armed and naively expect them to not drink. If this is allowed, I fear that some bar patron will inevitably become a criminal, and do us unrecoverable damage in the process. Hopefully I am wrong.

Has it been a problem in any other state where this law is on the books?

I consume alcohol maybe twice a year (literally, around 2 or 3 drinks per year) while I am in my home. I NEVER drink outside of my home...or maybe when I am camping in the middle of nowhere, I will have a drink. So yeah, this is all pretty trivial for me. When I park downtown for a show at the Ryman, or to get a bite to eat, I have to look around before taking my holster off my belt to hide my pistol under my seat, and pray I don't come back to my window busted out, and my revolver no longer in the hands of a noncriminal.

Some ink on a piece of paper is not going to stop someone who seeks to commit violence with again from committing violence with a gun...

I wonder if Serpas has any beer in his fridge or any booze in his cabinet. Likely, you might surmise? Shouldn't he know that "guns and alcohol don't mix?

Edited May 31, 2009 by KevinM

[deerslayer]

Privileges?

If it were a right, why do pay a fee to the state for it? I'm not saying I like this--there's the way it ought to be, and there's the way it is.

[deerslayer]

Has it been a problem in any other state where this law is on the books?

I consume alcohol maybe twice a year (literally, around 2 or 3 drinks per year) while I am in my home. I NEVER drink outside of my home...or maybe when I am camping in the middle of nowhere, I will have a drink. So yeah, this is all pretty trivial for me. When I park downtown for a show at the Ryman, or to get a bite to eat, I have to look around before taking my holster off my belt to hide my pistol under my seat, and pray I don't come back to my window busted out, and my revolver no longer in the hands of a noncriminal.

Some ink on a piece of paper is not going to stop someone who seeks to commit violence with again from committing violence with a gun...

I wonder if Serpas has any beer in his fridge or any booze in his cabinet. Likely, you might surmise? Shouldn't he know that "guns and alcohol don't mix?

Probably every state has DUI laws on the books, and probably every state has DUIs.

We sound very similar--I'll only drink at home, or while sitting at a campfire where my bed is only a few feet away.

I don't hide my gun in my car, but I don't go downtown, either.

Serpas probably does have beer in his fridge and does know that guns and alcohol don't mix, but he is a police chief and is not likely to get arrested for the same things that you and I are.

Edited May 31, 2009 by deerslayer

[Guest crystalm]

I'm in.

[dralarms]

Please do, those are some great cards.

Tried, and since it's a pdf it won't let me post it. Pm me with your email addy and I'll send it to you.

[Mr. Brooks]

Tried, and since it's a pdf it won't let me post it. Pm me with your email addy and I'll send it to you.

Done.

[dralarms]

Done.

Back at ya.

[Guest Britestar]

A previous poster said that he was opposed to "guns and liquor" well, he doesn't get the bill. It states that if you carry in a restraunt that serves liquor or a bar then you cannot consume. It doesn't make sense to me that if I am carrying and go out to Outback for a meal that the weapon has to come off. If someone then does indulge and they are carrying then cite them and revoke the carry permit. Personally I carry concealed, if done properly NO ONE should know your carrying. I would rather be judged by twelve than carried to the grave by six. You can draw your own conclusions from that. Having lived in Fl. where it is a "Concealed Carry" state you must keep it concealed. It would irratate me when I saw people who would carry with the hopes that someone might know it. Kinda like the people who purchase those "concealed weapons permit" badges.

[Guest Old goat]

I'm amazed at the response be many here, some I'm not, but please hear me through here.

Here's my intentions, I want to raise awareness by the general public that we are the good guys, to let them know and understand that we just want to protect ourselves and our family, my wife and 9y/o daughter. That they may want to do the same, who else is going to when danger is seconds away no matter where you go.

So how am I gonna go about this? I'm going to gather a few of my friends, go out front of the nice restaurant that he is taking his wife and two kids to for dinner with picket signs about how this owner doesn't want guns in his restaurant. Yup, bet thats gonna do the trick.

[Guest KevinM]

Probably every state has DUI laws on the books, and probably every state has DUIs.

True. But almost 40 states have this carry law on the books...does every state also have permit holders involving themselves in bar shootouts?

[deerslayer]

True. But almost 40 states have this carry law on the books...does every state also have permit holders involving themselves in bar shootouts?

I find this hard to believe, but if it's true, I have no idea. I do know that lots of folks are indifferent to driving after drinking. It would be naive to believe that everyone will follow the law if they are planning to go to a night club. Simply citing them and taking their permit is not as easy as it sounds--how do we know they have a permit until after they've done something stupid? DUIs and alcohol-related weapons violations can have different consequences. If someone gets a DUI, it won't make it more difficult for me to keep my driver's license. If an HCP holder goes to a club, gets tanked, and shoots someone (whether in self-defense or otherwise), the backlash may be intolerable.

[deerslayer]

I think what I'm trying to say, and haven't articulated very well so far, is this: I fully support our right to go to a restaurant that serves alcohol, not drink, and carry. I believe those going to a bar or night club are much more likely to drink, fight, or find trouble, whether it is illegal or not. Night club patrons are barred by law to drive after drinking, but this is violated on a massive scale. I doubt they would adhere to the "no gun while drinking" provision, either. Therefore, our reputations and rights as HCP holders would be better served if night club patrons left their guns at home. Punish all bar patrons because of what some of them will do? You bet. Ah, deerslayer, but can't someone go to Red Lobster and get tanked and do the same thing? Of course, but it's much less likely to happen. It's a risk I'm willing to take in order to be able to legally carry into restaurants. Go to Red Lobster and see how many people are drinking. Now go to a night club and see how many are drinking. I fear that the guy in Red Lobster will lose his rights sooner or later because of the idiots in the night clubs. Does this make any sense?

[DaveTN]

Privileges?

Absolutely. Tennessee does not recognize your 2<SUP>nd</SUP> amendment rights once you leave your property. 97% of the people of Tennessee would be subject to arrest if they carried a gun off their property. That is not a right. Unless you want to try to make the argument that it’s still a right; you just go to jail if you exercise it.

True. But almost 40 states have this carry law on the books...does every state also have permit holders involving themselves in bar shootouts?

I too find that hard to believe, but I don’t know one way or the other. 40 states allow you to carry a gun in a bar?

[DaveTN]

Why are we arguing about bars? Are bars not “age restricted venues†in Tennessee?

[deerslayer]

I think the "age restricted venue" part was removed somewhere along the way.

[TripleDigitRide]

I think the "age restricted venue" part was removed somewhere along the way.

That would be correct. If/When this bill is passed, you will be allowed to carry in bars.

[Champ198]

We have our Legislators on our side. They passed the bill, they can override. No need for a protest unless our lawmakers aren't listening to us.

[Fallguy]

One difference between the DUI after being at the club and drinking even though you are not supposed to with a HCP is.... That you can drink, then drive. You just aren't supposed to drink "too much". So that is where the trouble is, some people don't know when to say when. But the difference in this law is that you aren't even supposed to have one sip while armed. So you don't have to figure out how many you can have and still "be legal"...the answer when you are armed is NONE.

[DaveTN]

We have our Legislators on our side. They passed the bill, they can override. No need for a protest unless our lawmakers aren't listening to us.

The protest is about owners posting their business if the law does pass.

[deerslayer]

One difference between the DUI after being at the club and drinking even though you are not supposed to with a HCP is.... That you can drink, then drive. You just aren't supposed to drink "too much". So that is where the trouble is, some people don't know when to say when. But the difference in this law is that you aren't even supposed to have one sip while armed. So you don't have to figure out how many you can have and still "be legal"...the answer when you are armed is NONE.

And you trust that all your fellow gunowners will follow this rule religiously?

One sip of one drink can get you a DUI. You don't necessarily have to be .08 BAC to go downtown. BAC is only one of several tests an officer may use to determine if you are impaired. You tried your friend's girly-fruity drink, got rear-ended on the way home, cop smelled the fruity drink, you passed the breathalizer but looked suspicious when touching your nose or walking the straight line but turned left instead of right. Far-fetched, right? It happens all the time. Hell, my dad had a brain tumor and lost his right auditory nerve, which sometimes messes with his balance and coordination. He wouldn't be able to pass all the field sobriety tests with or without a drink. But I'm sure all cops would buy his story. My point is that everyone knows that one sip or even one drink can't get you a DUI, right? Wrong. I bet that many will assume that one drink will be negligible and nothing to worry about while carrying.

[DaveTN]

I think the "age restricted venue" part was removed somewhere along the way.

Thanks, I guess I wasn’t paying attention. Well I guess now I see why the media is calling it “Guns in Barsâ€; because that is exactly what it is.

[Fallguy]

I thought it was supposed to be about business owners giving out misleading or wrong information to create an unreasonable fear.

[Guest KevinM]

Does this make any sense?

Yes, you make sense. You are obviously intelligent and I don't think our belief systems are all that different. But I largely stopped caring about the perception of the masses a while ago. There isn't much I or we can do to stop the idiots from thinking idiotically. Look at all the cops that accidentally shoot each other, commit HEINOUS crimes and the like...it changes little about people's perception of law enforcement. They seem to always get the benefit of the doubt.

Punish all bar patrons because of what some of them will do? You bet.

Sorry, I just cannot accept this. If a bar owner wants to ban guns, that is their right. But I see no reason to be disarmed arbitrarily based on a whim from Ronal Serpas and his ilk... Edited May 31, 2009 by KevinM