Magnum primers in 9mm problems

[alwayspackin]

I loaded some 9mm 124gr with Winchester 231 and magnum primers. I reduced the load by 10%. All loads were between 3.5 to 4.0. None of them would eject. Had jams, stove pipe and etc. It looks like my extractor is bent now. The last round at 3.8 would not eject at all and had to do some real pound on the slide to get it back. Has anybody else used the magnum primers in 9mm? If so, what was your load and how much did you reduce it?

And yes, these are some of my first reloads. All of my .40s reduced by 10% worked great. But the 9mm suck.

[musicman]

Dang. Looking at Hodgdon's data (and you already know that I won't use magnum primers in 9 and .40) I would have thought you still would have been ok. Hodgdon's max shows 4.4grn for lead, and 4.8grn for jacketed.

What I'm slowly learning in reloading is that extrapolating a load from data for other recipes is not always the best idea. There are so many variables in internal ballisitics it'll make your head spin, and to think that X should work in Y case doesn't always come out the way we want it. Am I still a goober, and do I still go a little outside the box sometimes? yes and yes. However, as you've heard from me before, I won't make things up for cases with high pressure or small case capacities, especially not cartridges that suffer from both.

I'm glad you were not hurt, and it seems the gun only sustained minor damage. However, are you now not a little worried about the .40 loads, seeing the problems caused in the 9? I can't remember what guns you were shooting these in, but .40s from nearly every mfgr have less case support when compared to their 9mm counterparts.

I hate to be a wet blanket as you start reloading, but I am going to be anyways. I know the primer shortage has been very hard. I am out of small pistol primers myself, and yes, I am even using some small pistol mag primers in my .38 and .357 loads. However, those cases have MUCH more capacity (the .38 being a black powder load originally, then the .357 being a stretched .38) and I'm reducing most loads closer to 20-25%. The beauty of loading for revolvers is that I don't have to worry about cycling the action, but merely getting the bullet free of the bore.

Side story: Primers can have a lot of power in them. In my very first batch of reloads, I somehow did not charge the case for one round. These were .38s being shot in a 6" Ruger GP100. The dropped, I heard a light "pop", and didn't get a hole in the target. I stopped shoting, epmtied the gun, and found a bullet stuck halfway out of the muzzle of the gun. Primers have some power to them.

You may try reducing your loads further... I don't know. (I don't condone that. May stance is not to use mag primers in 9 and .40 at all.) You will decide to do what you want to do, and I have no control of that. However, I do hope that you will discontinue the use of mag primers in that cases. I also hope that we can both find small pistol primers at reasonable prices very soon, and that way this whole problem will be nil!

One other thing that just ran through my head was OAL. (overall length) How was that vs. the recipe? Any chance of bullet setback? Just another thought.

I hope that these troubles don't sour you on reloading. It is an excellent hobby, and adds a lot to your shooting experience. Good luck!

Edited May 28, 2009 by musicman

[Tacblack]

I have been loading my 40,9mm and super with win. magnum primers for all. I have used Vihtavuori vv350,340,330 and now vv320. My 9mm loads are loaded little long but current load is 4.1grns of vv320 and win mag primers.

I read about and ran into faster burning light loads recoil impulse being to short to fully cycle the slide on some guns. All of the guns I load for are running lighter springs then stock.

I ran #11 on my Taurus 92, Beretta Elite2 and CZ sp-01. #14 in my SV(40cal) 2011 and #12.5 in my super single stack(minor PF).

In short if you don't have damage may be short stroking the slide. What gun and spring weight are you running.

[alwayspackin]

After a few tests, I am set on 4.7 grains with a 180 grain bullet in .40cal using winchester 231 and magnum primers. These seem to be pretty hot but are pretty accurate. I like my loads to have a little punch to them anyways.

The 9s seem to need a little more powder to cycle the slide more. I was just seeing if anyone else how any info here. I was thinking that the OAL might need to be adjusted. I was setting them at 1.130.

[Tacblack]

Current 9mm load is 4.0grns vv320 (4.3grns vv330), OAL 1.15, mag primers, Montana Gold 124grn RN. This same load would not cycle my friends stock 92 but I used it in Taurus and Beretta with lighter spring. PF 128, 1036fps avg.

Current 40 load is 5.1grns vv320, OAL 1.2, mag primers, Montana Gold 180grn JHP. PF 174 @ 968fps avg

My Vihtavuori load book shows approximate burn rate for Winchester 231 about 1/3 between vv320 and vv330. 3.5 to 4grns of 231 with a stock weight spring sounds like the slide may not cycle all the way to fully eject spent case, would be pretty light load. Run a few through a chrony if you can, hope that info helps some.

[alwayspackin]

Thanks for the info. I ran the 40 load threw a glock 22 and a m&p with no problems. The 9mm load was ran threw a glock 26 and would not cycle. Sounds like I need to increase the charge alittle to me.

[Guest Mugster]

It would be extremely difficult to damage the extractor with any ammo. I'd think any extractor problems you have are independent of your ammo problem. The extractor should pull right through the rim of the round before it bends or otherwise breaks off. They are made out of tool steel...or they should be. I don't own a glock though.

If you get a fired case stuck in the chamber, use a dowell rod down the barrel and tap it with a small hammer. Don't beat on the slide. You can use a cleaning rod but it may bend it up if its stuck real good.

I can't help much with your load issues, but stovepiping might be an OAL problem. Maybe you could get another handloader to take a look at what you are doing? It might save you a barrel.

Edited May 29, 2009 by Mugster

[Guest Mugster]

Dang. Looking at Hodgdon's data (and you already know that I won't use magnum primers in 9 and .40) I would have thought you still would have been ok. Hodgdon's max shows 4.4grn for lead, and 4.8grn for jacketed.

What I'm slowly learning in reloading is that extrapolating a load from data for other recipes is not always the best idea. There are so many variables in internal ballisitics it'll make your head spin, and to think that X should work in Y case doesn't always come out the way we want it. Am I still a goober, and do I still go a little outside the box sometimes? yes and yes. However, as you've heard from me before, I won't make things up for cases with high pressure or small case capacities, especially not cartridges that suffer from both.

I'm glad you were not hurt, and it seems the gun only sustained minor damage. However, are you now not a little worried about the .40 loads, seeing the problems caused in the 9? I can't remember what guns you were shooting these in, but .40s from nearly every mfgr have less case support when compared to their 9mm counterparts.

I hate to be a wet blanket as you start reloading, but I am going to be anyways. I know the primer shortage has been very hard. I am out of small pistol primers myself, and yes, I am even using some small pistol mag primers in my .38 and .357 loads. However, those cases have MUCH more capacity (the .38 being a black powder load originally, then the .357 being a stretched .38) and I'm reducing most loads closer to 20-25%. The beauty of loading for revolvers is that I don't have to worry about cycling the action, but merely getting the bullet free of the bore.

Side story: Primers can have a lot of power in them. In my very first batch of reloads, I somehow did not charge the case for one round. These were .38s being shot in a 6" Ruger GP100. The dropped, I heard a light "pop", and didn't get a hole in the target. I stopped shoting, epmtied the gun, and found a bullet stuck halfway out of the muzzle of the gun. Primers have some power to them.

You may try reducing your loads further... I don't know. (I don't condone that. May stance is not to use mag primers in 9 and .40 at all.) You will decide to do what you want to do, and I have no control of that. However, I do hope that you will discontinue the use of mag primers in that cases. I also hope that we can both find small pistol primers at reasonable prices very soon, and that way this whole problem will be nil!

One other thing that just ran through my head was OAL. (overall length) How was that vs. the recipe? Any chance of bullet setback? Just another thought.

I hope that these troubles don't sour you on reloading. It is an excellent hobby, and adds a lot to your shooting experience. Good luck!

If you start with a minimum load you should be safe enough. I'd personally contact the powder maker using less than minimum charges. You can with a magnum primer as well.

If you go right to a "recipe", thats a mistake, imo.

The safest way to approach any load on anything is by using a chronograph. Hopefully between all your measurements of the loaded round, the powder scale, looking at fired brass, and chronograph measurements you can avoid the pressure spike of destruction. A little common sense helps too. Anything less, you are taking your chances.

[alwayspackin]

Thanks for all the info. I up the powder charge and every thing went great. Shot my glock 22 and glock 26 with no problems. Also no problems with any other guns. I will post results and test info soon.

I wish everybody owned a chronograph and had a place to set it up. When you live in the city and have to pay range fees it adds up.

[Guest weemsf]

Glocks, especially the "baby" ones need what some call high-performance ammo, meaning they will not function with light and some medium loads. Preacher friend's wife tried shooting Tennessee Cartridge reloads out of hers and she thought her gun was broke. Use only wamr to hot loads for the Glocks and you will be fine. I use to have some Hirtenberger 9MM, NATO sub-machine gun ammo. Friend shot it through his Glock and loved it so much he bought the whole case from me to use in competition.

Glocks are tough guns, not my first choice, but good dependable and rugged pistols. Magnum primers in the loads will not be a problem, IMO, so long as you use reason and do not push the limits of ballistic theory.

Edited June 7, 2009 by weemsf
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