Governor Phil Bredesen Vetoes HB0962 (Restaurant Carry Bill)

[Guest GhostHunter]

I emailed Rep. Evans and Senator Diane Black. Haven't gotten a reply from Evans yet, but here is the reply I was expecting from Black: I can always count on her for a prompt reply to my emails.

"I will vote to override the veto.

Senator Black"

[Guest happyman49]

while I am for being able to carry in restaraunts,also I am a permit holder, I have no intention of eating in any establishment that serves alcohol. I wrote my senator and rep and haven't heard from either one of them, YET. I have wrote to them before and always got a response from them. Maybe they are just swamped with mail. I would be more apprehensive of someone drinking in a restaraunt and then getting in their car and driving than I am of someone who has a concealed gun on them.Just my 2 cents worth.

[Billco]

Even though Haynes is against the bill you should still send him 2 or 3 emails a day until the house has acted on the bill. My Senator is Doug Henry and he is the most useless Senator on the hill but he is getting multiple emails anyway. Their job is to represent us. Our job is to tell them what we want. I think that it is vital that we do our part no matter how futile it may seem.

I took your advise Vol..first email sent this AM. Thanx for the advise.

[cadillacdude1975]

i sent this email to WRCBTV3 here in chattanooga, they once again are reporting this story under the title Guns in Bars. i have had enough of this misrepresentation. the story is here. Guns in Bars Backlash - WRCB Channel 3 Chattanooga News, Weather |

my email was this:

to whom it may concern,

this email is in about your website story Guns in Bars Backlash - WRCB Channel 3 Chattanooga News, Weather | and you have titled it "Guns in Bars". channel 3 is not the only station to be guilty of misrepresenting what this impending legislature is about, and the other stations will be getting an email from myself and many others as well.

this bill has never been about the legal permit holder carrying in a BAR. it is illegal to do so under current law, and it will still be illegal to do so under the proposed change to the law. i am sick and tired of the media blowing this subject so far out of the water. the entire uproar over the bill is based off hype the media has created.

you all post links for everyone to read about the bill, but the title your site has given the bill convicts us, the permit holder, before anyone ever bothers to actually read the wording of the pending bill. let me refresh your minds on EXACTLY what this bill proposes to change:

http://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/106/Amend/SA0204.pdf

what this amends is the current restriction where alcohol is served for on site consumption. the definition between a restaurant and a bar is as follows:.

( As used in this subdivision ©(3), “restaurant” means any public

place kept, used, maintained, advertised and held out to the public as a place

where meals are served and where meals are actually and regularly served, such

place being provided with adequate and sanitary kitchen and dining room

equipment, having employed therein a sufficient number and kind of employees

to prepare, cook and serve suitable food for its guests. At least one (1) meal per

day shall be served at least five (5) days a week, with the exception of holidays,

vacations and periods of redecorating, and the serving of such meals shall be the

principal business conducted.

having said that, does the local hole in the wall downtown have a wait staff? do they serve regular meals prepared by a staff at least once a day? no and no would be the correct answer.

the question was brought up "well who is going to police/oversee that the permit holders are not drinking?" do you all know the headache that we have to go through to obtain a Tennessee Handgun Permit? you can not have so much as the first misdemeanor on your record. minor traffic offenses are allowed, but you can not have any marks on your background at all. permit holders are law abiding, that means clean backgrounds, that means we do not cause trouble, and the right to carry our firearms for self defense is cherished. the penalty is loss of the permit to carry and loss of the firearm.

there are over 10,000 handgun permit holders in Hamilton County alone. how many of us are out there causing problems at Walmart, McDonalds, Walgreens, in line at the bank, pumping gas at the local Kangaroo, sitting behind you in church or walking downtown, and holding the door open for your elderly mother as she takes her groceries to her car? and again, the answer is NONE.

out of the 37 other states that allow carry where alcohol is served, has there been any shootouts and massive killings? NO, there has not. the laws do nothing but restrict the law abiding citizen and nothing for the criminal. the criminal does not care about background checks or the laws that are posted. they are criminals. they do not abide by the law. so while you are out eating somewhere, stop and look at all the people surrounding you. crime is very high in chattanooga. who would you want sitting next to your family at a place like Red Lobster or Chili's? do you want a law abiding honest citizen dining with his family unarmed, or do you want to sit next to a convicted felon who is scoping you out to be his next target? think about that next time your leaving somewhere at night. there are more people killed or injured from drunk driving and crime every year than anyone hurt by a legally owned handgun. a handgun is a tool. the handgun does not know right from wrong, it simply does the bidding of its master. if its master is a muderous felon, then the handgun will act accordingly. guns do not kill people, people kill people.

it disgusts me to no end how one sided the media is towards this issue. the media used to report the facts on both sides, not lean towards the ones that make the public spotlight reflect on what side is taken.

carrying a firearm is a right granted to myself by the United States Constitution and the Tennessee Constitution. it is a privilege for me to be able to do so. i pray i never have to draw my firearm in defense of my life, but with as rotten as todays world is, you never know what is going to happen one day to the next.

[Volzfan]

this bill has never been about the legal permit holder carrying in a BAR. it is illegal to do so under current law, and it will still be illegal to do so under the proposed change to the law. i am sick and tired of the media blowing this subject so far out of the water. the entire uproar over the bill is based off hype the media has created.

Did I miss something? I was under the impression that all restrictions had been removed from the bill and there was no distinction between restaurants and bars. I keep seeing people say this so if I am mistaken I would like to have someone who knows correct me. IF I am correct then the others that are making this statement needs to stop misrepresenting what the bill says.

Fallguy, set me straight.

[Mike.357]

there are no bars in Tennessee

[cadillacdude1975]

unless i missed something as well, actual bars would still be off limits.

[Motasyco]

I guess we need the opinion of a laptop lawyer

[cadillacdude1975]

Firearms and Ammunition - As introduced, allows person with handgun carry permit to carry in restaurants that serve alcoholic beverages as long as such person is not consuming alcoholic beverages and such restaurant is not an age-restricted venue. - Amends TCA Title 39, Chapter 17.

age restricted venue would be a bar. you must be 21 to be in such a place. Chili's, Red Lobster, O'Charley's etc do not impose an age restriction, you simply get carded for alcohol (supposed too anyway).

that is what i gather from the wording.

edit: does anyone know if this override will be on the agenda for the house and senate monday? if so, will it still become law monday if the override vote is successful?

Edited May 30, 2009 by cadillacdude1975

[Fallguy]

As has been said, there is not legal definition of a bar in TN or it's law.

This bill does not have the curfew or age-restricted venue parts in it. But it only allow carry in what it defines as a restaurant.

So if it is just a place on the side of road selling beer an no meal, then no, you could not carry in there.

But there are some places that others might consider a bar, that as long as the meet the requirements laid out to be qualified as a restaurant you could carry in there.

[Fallguy]

Firearms and Ammunition - As introduced, allows person with handgun carry permit to carry in restaurants that serve alcoholic beverages as long as such person is not consuming alcoholic beverages and such restaurant is not an age-restricted venue. - Amends TCA Title 39, Chapter 17.

age restricted venue would be a bar. you must be 21 to be in such a place. Chili's, Red Lobster, O'Charley's etc do not impose an age restriction, you simply get carded for alcohol (supposed too anyway).

that is what i gather from the wording.

edit: does anyone know if this override will be on the agenda for the house and senate monday? if so, will it still become law monday if the override vote is successful?

That was "as introduced" but it was amended. You can not just go by the caption, you have to follow all of the results and see what amendments were adopted how they may change the bill.

[Volzfan]

So that means that the blanket statement that we still can't carry in bars is partly right and partly wrong?

[Fallguy]

So that means that the blanket statement that we still can't carry in bars is partly right and partly wrong?

LOL....somewhat.

[-boatman-]

I have sent e-mails to Sen Finney and Rep Shaw. No response yet but I do not expect one from Shaw. I have never gotten a response from him and he has never voted our way that I know of. I will be doing all I can to keep him from getting reelected when that time comes.

[Guest djack41]

Firearms and Ammunition - As introduced, allows person with handgun carry permit to carry in restaurants that serve alcoholic beverages as long as such person is not consuming alcoholic beverages and such restaurant is not an age-restricted venue. - Amends TCA Title 39, Chapter 17.

age restricted venue would be a bar. you must be 21 to be in such a place. Chili's, Red Lobster, O'Charley's etc do not impose an age restriction, you simply get carded for alcohol (supposed too anyway).

that is what i gather from the wording.

edit: does anyone know if this override will be on the agenda for the house and senate monday? if so, will it still become law monday if the override vote is successful?

The state does not license bars. The state only license restaurants, Restaurants are allowed to operate a bar provided the revenue from the sale of alcohol does not exceed 50% of the total revenue.

Therefore, the press is technically correct when it refers to "guns and bars". An HCP will be able to sit at the bar in an unposted restaurant.

There are no age restrictions or curfews in the bill. A fact noted by Bredesen.

Override will take 1 to 2 weeks. The bill will become law immediately after re-passage by the house and senate. The law will then take effect immediately since re-passage will occur after the June 1 effective date set forth in the bill.

[Falcon1]

According to the TN AG it is just as illegal for an LEO to carry, on or off duty, in an establishment that serves alcohol unless it is in the execution of law enforcement duties. Having lunch or dinner is not an official duty.

I have found the AG OP which makes it illegal for one to do so off-duty (99-024: AG 99-024), but I don't see anything about on-duty carry. Is there another opinion? What am I missing?

[Falcon1]

.

http://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/106/Amend/SA0204.pdf

what this amends is the current restriction where alcohol is served for on site consumption. the definition between a restaurant and a bar is as follows:.

(As used in this subdivision ©(3), “restaurant†means any public

place kept, used, maintained, advertised and held out to the public as a place

where meals are served and where meals are actually and regularly served, such

place being provided with adequate and sanitary kitchen and dining room

equipment, having employed therein a sufficient number and kind of employees

to prepare, cook and serve suitable food for its guests. At least one (1) meal per

day shall be served at least five (5) days a week, with the exception of holidays,

vacations and periods of redecorating, and the serving of such meals shall be the

principal business conducted. [emphasis added]

Did I miss something? I was under the impression that all restrictions had been removed from the bill and there was no distinction between restaurants and bars. I keep seeing people say this so if I am mistaken I would like to have someone who knows correct me. IF I am correct then the others that are making this statement needs to stop misrepresenting what the bill says.

Fallguy, set me straight.

The state does not license bars. The state only license restaurants, Restaurants are allowed to operate a bar provided the revenue from the sale of alcohol does not exceed 50% of the total revenue.

Assuming the governor's veto is overridden, I will only carry in an establishment that meets all of the the criteria listed above in bold type. Do that, and you will be legal.

[Guest Mark]

I noticed the media has been showing coverage as though every bar owner and musician is aganst the right to carry, If the news stuck to the facts and showed how crime is reduced when honest citizens carry, this would not be an issue at all.

[Guest HexHead]

I noticed the media has been showing coverage as though every bar owner and musician is aganst the right to carry, If the news stuck to the facts and showed how crime is reduced when honest citizens carry, this would not be an issue at all.

If I was a thug, I'd be waiting out in the parking lot for those musicians carrying cash at the end of the night.

[Guest KWW67]

I have found the AG OP which makes it illegal for one to do so off-duty (99-024: AG 99-024), but I don't see anything about on-duty carry. Is there another opinion? What am I missing?

I am very interested in this. I have been out of LE about 10 years so I am very curious to dig into this. If anyone has a close relationship with their rep, they can ask the AG for a ruling. I know it use to not be a problem but could be b/c it just never was thought about. After watching Tommy Thompson on that press release, he apparently don't think LE should carry either. This would be a great project to dig into. Serpas would throw up as he is so gung ho arrogant. He is a dangerous media hound who loves attention and thinks the LE community is a little more than what they are. I have been there, done that and it is nothing more than a job. You go to work, do a job and go home and it stops there. No more important than a factory worker when off duty.... I would highly recommend that if anyone sees an officer(s) eating at ANY place that serves, they should be reported. I don't see this as execution of duties. A bar check or call for service I understand. But no eating.

[Guest 44M]

huh, now I feel much better and safer after that bill has been vetoed...now I know that crazy armed nutcases wont come in the bars to kill people because it is against the law.... huh, what a relief... now we need to outlaw CCW carry period, in the whole country and that will take care of all the shootings and killings and crime will vanished forever... how comforting...

Db

[cadillacdude1975]

but the constant question arises how do you define official duties? would that be a call placed from the school or bar etc to the PD for some incident? police officers are often a deterrent for illegal activity just by the mere presence, no call needed for anything. can that be described as "actual discharge" of the duties? there are far too many gray areas in tennessee laws as far as i am concerned.

[Guest 2HOW]

NRA Denounces Tennessee Governor: The National Rifle Association is accusing Gov. Phil Bredesen of having “betrayed†a “trust†by vetoing legislation Thursday allowing handgun-carry permit holders to bring loaded weapons into establishments selling alcohol. The executive director of the NRA’s Institute for Legislative Action, Chris Cox, in a statement called the veto “a shock and a major disappointment to gun owners and supporters of the Second Amendment because Governor Bredesen had committed to supporting this legislation. During the 2006 campaign, Governor Bredesen assured Tennesseans - and the NRA in writing - that he would support this effort. NRA’s endorsement of Governor Bredesen that year centered largely on this promise. Today, that trust has been betrayed,†Mr. Cox said…

http://timesfreepress.com/news/2009/may/29/nra-says-bredesen-betrayed-trust-guns-bars-veto/?breakingnews

…His theory that guns and alcohol don’t mix has its share of supporters. Among them is Courtney Landers, who works at Ray’s Sports Entertainment Grill in West Knoxville. "People get in fights,†she said. “If they have a gun it's easier to pull out." Many of Ray’s customers disagree with Landers. "It's better to have it and not need it than not have it and need it,†said Richard Brintnall, a Ray’s customer. Different versions of the bill were overwhelmingly approved by the Tennessee House and Senate, then both worked together to hammer out the differences. The governor’s veto means they’ll get another shot at voting on the legislation…

http://www.volunteertv.com/home/headlines/46421882.html

[whiskey]

NRA Denounces Tennessee Governor: The National Rifle Association is accusing Gov. Phil Bredesen of having “betrayed†a “trust†by vetoing legislation Thursday allowing handgun-carry permit holders to bring loaded weapons into establishments selling alcohol. The executive director of the NRA’s Institute for Legislative Action, Chris Cox, in a statement called the veto “a shock and a major disappointment to gun owners and supporters of the Second Amendment because Governor Bredesen had committed to supporting this legislation. During the 2006 campaign, Governor Bredesen assured Tennesseans - and the NRA in writing - that he would support this effort. NRA’s endorsement of Governor Bredesen that year centered largely on this promise. Today, that trust has been betrayed,†Mr. Cox said…

http://timesfreepress.com/news/2009/may/29/nra-says-bredesen-betrayed-trust-guns-bars-veto/?breakingnews

…His theory that guns and alcohol don’t mix has its share of supporters. Among them is Courtney Landers, who works at Ray’s Sports Entertainment Grill in West Knoxville. "People get in fights,†she said. “If they have a gun it's easier to pull out." Many of Ray’s customers disagree with Landers. "It's better to have it and not need it than not have it and need it,†said Richard Brintnall, a Ray’s customer. Different versions of the bill were overwhelmingly approved by the Tennessee House and Senate, then both worked together to hammer out the differences. The governor’s veto means they’ll get another shot at voting on the legislation…

http://www.volunteertv.com/home/headlines/46421882.html

I am happy I am an NRA member. They have their pros and cons, but they do serve us. I wish this would stay in the media for once.

[VolunteerGuns]

Fincher Is The Man-

Cant Wait to vote for him-

Mailed him askin for the override and got this back...

Dear Mr. ****,

Thanks for contacting me, and thanks for the kind words! I plan on voting to override the veto. As both a HCP holder and state certified HCP course instructor, I don't think we need to ban law abiding HCP holders who arent drinking from carrying in restaurants that serve alcohol. Drawing these imaginary lines around certain places only prohibits good citizens from carrying, because the crooks will carry whenever and wherever they please.

Thanks for your support - it is really appreciated!! If I can ever be of service to you or your family, please do not hesitate to call on me.

Sincerely yours,

Rep. Henry Fincher