Restaurant Ettiquete While Carrying

[Guest Jamie]

Smith, you seem to be all hung up on the "moral relevance" of the group, or the reasons a group might decide one thing or the other, when I'm not really discussing those things at all.

It just plain doesn't matter what or why the larger/more powerful group decides whatever they do... the fact remains that it will be their choice that carries through.

I've also mentioned that societies evolve. That means that the number of people, or the size of the groups that think one way or the other are not static. The how why and wherefores of those changes really doesn't matter much in the context I'm speaking of. They are still the controlling factor.

A majority of people thought everybody should be armed, back 200+ years ago... Back about 80 years ago, the group of people that disagreed with that became larger/more powerful than those who did... And starting just recently, the group that thinks being armed is a good idea, or a "right", has started growing again.

Oh, and as for the morality or reasoning behind the U.S. being formed... it doesn't much matter either. The fact is, the group that didn't like the situation with King George and his taxes was pretty small, in the grand scheme of things. However, they recruited help. Help that enlarged their group and made them able to force their will on the king.

Did the French or the Indians really give a flying rat's ass about how much taxes the colonists were paying? I doubt it. They no doubt had their own reasons and agenda for helping the colonists break away from England.

Their joining in the fight still had the effect of raising the size/power of the colonists to a level that would succeed though, no matter what their reasoning was for it.

So, tell me how my assertion isn't true. Where in all of history has the small/weak group subjugated or controlled the larger/more powerful?

Because I think if you really look closely at any example that you might find that appears to fit the bill, you'll probably discover that there's some leverage at work there that isn't noticed at first glance.

Edited May 26, 2009 by Jamie

[Fallguy]

Smith, Jamie....when the restaurant carry law passes, I think y'all should go to a restaurant OCing and continue this discussion....make sure to involve the wait staff and ask their opinion as well.

Sorry...couldn't help myself.

[GLOCKMEISTER]

how many paces apart should they stand???

[Guest MediaBuster]

Many restaurant employees are very liberal so this topic could be very touchy with your service staff, try to stay away from politics and religion from the conversation as this is considered offense in the public dining setting.

I stopped reading after the above anti-first amendment statement (typical of todays Demoncrats) was made..

[strickj]

I stopped reading after the above anti-first amendment statement (typical of todays Demoncrats) was made..

you do know that the 1st amendment doesn't apply to private property like restaurants,right?

granted,you may talk about anything you want because they want your money,,but it has nothing to do with your rights from the gov.

Edited May 26, 2009 by strickj

[Guest MediaBuster]

you do know that the 1st amendment doesn't apply to private property like restaurants,right?

granted,you may talk about anything you want because they want your money,,but it has nothing to do with your rights from the gov.

Yes I'm aware of that.. But anyone who tries to censor my conversation will not have my business, or my company.. It is un-American, fascist, & that's why I stopped reading after the poster suggested it. Furthermore, the right to self defense is a God given right, & personally I don't give two :poop:s what the Government thinks about it when it all comes down to the wire. I will discuss it anywhere I want, & if the property owner wants me to leave, yes I will respect their property rights, & take my money with me, & discourage others from going there as well. But I do understand your point, which is a good one. You are a guest there. On the same token though, they are there to provide hospitality in exchange for $$$. I don't find censorship & fascist restrictions very "hospitable" myself.

Edited May 26, 2009 by MediaBuster

[Guest Jamie]

Smith, Jamie....when the restaurant carry law passes, I think y'all should go to a restaurant OCing and continue this discussion....make sure to involve the wait staff and ask their opinion as well.

Sorry...couldn't help myself.

Can I blow cigarette smoke at the waiter, while I'm at it?

[Guest Jamie]

...Furthermore, the right to self defense is a God given right, & personally I don't give two :poop:s what the Government thinks about it when it all comes down to the wire.

Sure you do. Otherwise, you wouldn't be here having a fit about this stuff. You'd just be going on about your business doing whatever you please... at least until you got caught and thrown in jail.

[Smith]

Smith, Jamie....when the restaurant carry law passes, I think y'all should go to a restaurant OCing and continue this discussion....make sure to involve the wait staff and ask their opinion as well.

Sorry...couldn't help myself.

What you don't like having to read someone else's endless drivel of semantics and philosophical debate! Just kidding I read most of your stuff.

[Fallguy]

Can I blow cigarette smoke at the waiter, while I'm at it?

LOL...of course...didn't think about that.

[Fallguy]

What you don't like having to read someone else's endless drivel of semantics and philosophical debate! Just kidding I read most of your stuff.

LOL....your hurt me man...

Nah,...I'm just a natural born peace maker....or try to be. At the very least I try to add levity to a situation...even at inopportune times...

[Guest Jamie]

how many paces apart should they stand???

Crap, I missed this one earlier.... got side-tracked.

Anyway, we're not gonna stand. We'll sit like civilized folk, with guns laying on the table and the bottle of whiskey between us.

And maybe, if the conversation starts to get too heated, one or two of whatever they are that passes for tavern wenches/dance hall girls will come distract us from shooting at each other.

Which probably means we should be meeting at Hooters...

[Guest cowboy20th]

Sorry I have been away from the thread, this discussion is way off topic but I really like the direction it went. Had one too many beers and work this morning so I will do my best to catch up.

DaveTN

first of all, thank you very much for your service to our country. I myself did not go to war like you, I was taught another way to be a patriot. I volunteer, am educating myself, vote on everything I can find, and stand up for the rights of others as well as myself. Yes my spelling is horrible, I was drinking and did not look over my writing, and am in fact the worst speller in the world. I went to public school. The stats may have been taken in a simple way but that does guarantee accuracy. People each have their own reasons for carry/not carrying, I know a few people who don't carry simply because they don't want the legal hassle and feel confident in their own combat abilities. And yes we do trade freedom and rights for safety and protection. We decided to pay taxes in order to fund state programs and institutions to make our country better, we sign for the draft at 18, we allow lawmakers to make laws and then we follow them or fight them depending on what we think of them. This is the social contract between man and government.

Mike, punisher, and unreconstructed,

I agree with you all. Yes we have the protected right, and yes that right is violated by the state of Tennessee. But things are getting better, restrictions are lifting and as more and more get their ccw permits the more and more the right will be "natural" and not given. I am personally fine with paying for a permit, I believe it keeps alot of people who shouldn't be carrying from doing it. Criminals will do whatever they want, but some shaky little guy could go out and buy a gun, load it, and start carrying without restrictions. I am not comfortable with that because the guy might or might not have thought it all the way through and could cause an innocent person to be killed. So I will trade unrestricted carry in order to ensure that those that do carry are trained, educated, and understand the moral and legal consequences of deadly force. Some will agree, some won't I think its kind of a personal opinion.

Jamie

Sadly you are right, the majority does too often rule, power is an elusive creature. the country does not operate the way the constitution had it planned too, and we are now suffering the consequences of such. The majority is no longer the largest number of people in the country agreeing though. It is now these little lobbying groups with tons of money, or corrupt politicians doing whatever it takes to get reeclected. The majority of america is grossly misrepresented, yet it is our own faults. I do believe over the next 50 years or so, we will correct this path. You have a very realist point of view which is valuable, I myself am more of an idealist.

Smith

You are right as well. This debate is the old realist vs idealist argument that is centuries old. Pretty interesting to watch it play out here though. We the people created this country through representatives known as the founding fathers who felt it best to make war with england rather then be persecuted and allow our land and fruits of labour be ravished by tyranical rulers. India did the same thing, though they were able to avoid war. And I too feel the counrty is almost ready to turn around, with the economy and what not people are not so comfortable anymore and will be fighting for their rights once again.

Fallguy

I blame you if I get two customers next week counting out paces and quoting the constitution.

MediaBuster

Sure you can talk about what you like. As I have posted probably three times already. Yes it would be rude and disrespectful to engage in such talk with someone who doesn't agree or has opposite views over a dinner setting. Alcohol might be involved and it is just not polite conversation in that setting, your party can talk about whatever they want. The whole point I put that in there was so we didn't look like a bunch of pistol toting loudmouths in front of the watchful public eye, instead we could promote a good positive image of our little political group and became more inviting to those who wish to discuss with us our thoughts in a more appropiate setting. Maybe people would be more welcoming to pro gun legislation if we showed the best side of ourselves.

"I stopped reading after the above anti-first amendment statement (typical of todays Demoncrats) was made.." MediaBuster

I don't much care to be called names, as I am sure you don't either. If you can't say something at least logical or present an intelligent argument then just put your foot back in your mouth and read everyone else's

[Guest Jamie]

LOL....your hurt me man...

Nah,...I'm just a natural born peace maker....or try to be. At the very least I try to add levity to a situation...even at inopportune times...

Jeeze... I hope we've not been hostile enough to warrant the need for a peace maker yet.

[Fallguy]

LOL.....nah, not hostile. Maybe resolution seeker would be a better term.

...and cowboy...done a bit of late night, alcohol fueled posting myself...so I do understand. But if a couple do show up and start pacing off, just holler at me and I'll refree.....

[Guest Jamie]

Maybe resolution seeker would be a better term.

Peace maker, resolution seeker... It all works out the same don't it?

Though "peace maker" does roll off the tongue - and out of the holster - better, I think.

[Mike.357]

I would like to see a rather large group of us all go out to dinner together on June 1

That is assuming it is law then.

Attendees could OC, CC, CCW, HCP, R-E-S-P-E-C-T, It does not matter. Just carry and enjoy going to a place legally for the first time.

If anyone wants to do this in Knoxville chime on in.

[Punisher84]

R-E-S-P-E-C-T, It does not matter.

Just a little bit! Just a little bit!

[Mike.357]

ha

[Punisher84]

ha

[Guest Jamie]

Jamie

Sadly you are right, the majority does too often rule, power is an elusive creature.

Okay, I've been trying to leave this alone and not derail things any more than they already are, but this one I just gotta address.

The majority always rules. Every time.

The thing is, it's the majority of people who care enough to voice an opinion, or take action concerning a particular issue that I'm speaking of here. Which is not necessarily the largest number of people who occupy a particular area.

The "silent majority" really doesn't count for much of anything, other than possibly for the winning side, in a "silence implies consent" sort of way. Their indifference has rendered them the least powerful faction, even though they are probably the most numerous.

So for all practical purposes, they're rendered themselves insignificant... little more than cattle... until they finally get fed up enough with the decisions that have been made, and take a more active role.

See anything you want to argue with there, Mr. Smith?

[Smith]

Okay, I've been trying to leave this alone and not derail things any more than they already are, but this one I just gotta address.

The majority always rules. Every time.

The thing is, it's the majority of people who care enough to voice an opinion, or take action concerning a particular issue that I'm speaking of here. Which is not necessarily the largest number of people who occupy a particular area.

The "silent majority" really doesn't count for much of anything, other than possibly for the winning side, in a "silence implies consent" sort of way. Their indifference has rendered them the least powerful faction, even though they are probably the most numerous.

So for all practical purposes, they're rendered themselves insignificant... little more than cattle... until they finally get fed up enough with the decisions that have been made, and take a more active role.

See anything you want to argue with there, Mr. Smith?

I'll be the silent "right" on this.

[Guest Jamie]

I'll be the silent "right" on this.

Ah, so you agree then... Good.

[Guest cowboy20th]

lol thanks fallguy, just bring sure to bring a peacemaker, that would be just too poetic.

Yea in this day and age the majority does rule or as you said Jamie they rule by the consent of the silent cattle.

Have you ever read the Federalist Papers? James Madison, Alexander Hamilton, and John Jay wrote correspondences back and forth about how the framers of the constitution intended things to work which was published in a new york newspaper regularly. I'm sure you guys have heard of them, but if you have not read them yet do so! They are lengthy but an excellent read for any American.

[RotorHead]

great post! good insight. i bartended and served for 4 years through college as well

I posted this question in another forum, but since you are/were a bartender I am going to post it here also. Is a person who is "carded" to serve alcohol in a restaurant or bar denied by law the right to arm themselves while at work?