Credit Card Bill Forces Dems to Take Vote on Gun Rights

[Oh Shoot]

This whole nine or fifteen month delay just tells me that this is all a bunch of BS anyway.

If congress wanted to help people with CC debt they would have wrote a law the fixed things today.

Same with carrying in national parks.

They want to say they are helping people, but they want to keep their hands in big bankings pockets.

Like I said it is a bunch of BS

All of "stimulus fund" crap was passed because it was supposedly necessary RIGHT NOW, or everything would fold.

The schedule is to have 70% spent by end of 2010. Right now! Right.

Agreed, total BS.

- OS

[saintsfanbrian]

I do like this part of the bill:

Congress finds

(1) The Second Amendment to the Constitution provides that `the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed'.

[greenego]

Adding the gun carry in parks amendment was just a way to get votes. This is the only thing that is good about this bill. This time next year we will be hearing the boys and girls in the big pork house on the hill are upset because the very people this bill is suppose to help can't get a credit card or had theirs canceled.

[Guest justme]

WOW......a little wind was just taken out of my sail.....

If I am reading this right, Sec 403 says it is not effective untill 15 months after the date it is enacted.

This will give states that wish to pass laws to prohibit or restrict carry in National Parks and National Wildlife Refuges, plenty of time to do so before it goes in to effect.

how can any state restrict carry on federally protected lands? As I understand it, state/county LE has no jurisdiction on federal land unless specifically requested to assist, or under the doctrine of fresh pursuit. Crimes committed in the Smoky Mountains for example fall under the jurisdiction of the FBI from what I understand, not the state of Tn. So I really don't see how an individual state can restrict carry in any national park--state park yes, but national park or lands protected by the US Fish and Wildlife?

[Fallguy]

how can any state restrict carry on federally protected lands? As I understand it, state/county LE has no jurisdiction on federal land unless specifically requested to assist, or under the doctrine of fresh pursuit. Crimes committed in the Smoky Mountains for example fall under the jurisdiction of the FBI from what I understand, not the state of Tn. So I really don't see how an individual state can restrict carry in any national park--state park yes, but national park or lands protected by the US Fish and Wildlife?

Can't say I know for sure. ....and you may be right.

But carry in National Forest is already controlled by state law.

Also even though this is being done by law and not the original rule change done by the DOI, it seems the intention has always been to allow states to prohibit or regulate carry in a National Park in their state.

I believe a crime committed in the Smoky Mountains National Park would be handled by the Park Rangers.

I'm not 100% sure on this, but I believe Federal Officers can enforce state laws with permission.

Plus the bill that passed says "in compliance with state law"

[Guest HexHead]

The original credit card bill wasn't supposed to go into effect until summer of 2010. Dear Leader sent them back to get it done sooner, hence 9 mos instead of 15 months. The Credit card bill isn't perfect since it doesn't cap rates, nor make any mention of "universal default rates", but the rest of it is a huge improvement from the crap the credit card companies have been getting away with. Too bad they have another 9 months to **** with us just for ****s and giggles.

One of my wife's credit cards, that we always have paid on time and generally have paid off sent her a rate increase letter the other day informing they were raising her rate by 5%! WTF?

[Fallguy]

Repeal of Gun Ban in National Parks Won't Take Effect Until February - Presidential Politics | Political News - FOXNews.com

President Obama signed the gun law Friday as part of a measure creating new rules for the credit card industry, but because the credit card law won't take effect for nine months, the gun measure also will be delayed

AP

Friday, May 22, 2009

WASHINGTON -- A new law that will allow loaded guns in national parks and wildlife refuges will not take effect until next year, the Obama administration said Friday.

President Obama signed the gun law Friday as part of a measure creating new rules for the credit card industry.

But a spokeswoman for the Interior Department said that because the credit card law will not take effect until nine months after it is signed, the gun measure also will be delayed.

Spokeswoman Kendra Barkoff said the Interior Department will follow Congress' directive and put the new firearms law into effect in late February 2010.

Bryan Faehner, associate director of the National Parks Conservation Association, praised the Interior Department's decision.

"We are pleased, because that provides more time that our parks will remain safe and free from shotguns, rifles and semiautomatic weapons," Faehner said.

"We hope that the American public and members of Congress will have more time to understand the far-reaching repercussions of this outrageous and disturbing law that has nothing to do with credit cards and will only put park visitors at risk," Faehner said.

Until February, rules adopted during the administration of President Ronald Reagan will remain in place. They severely restrict guns in the national parks, generally requiring that they be locked or stored in a glove compartment or trunk.

"As Interior prepares to implement the new law, the department will work to understand and interpret its implications for our national parks and wildlife refuges, with public safety and the safety of our employees as our foremost consideration," Barkoff said. "For the time being, the current Reagan administration regulations governing possession of firearms in national parks and wildlife refuges remain in place."

The Interior Department's decision drew immediate criticism from Republican Sen. Tom Coburn, chief sponsor of the gun measure.

Spokesman John Hart said Coburn will offer the gun amendment to other bills in order to implement the decision quicker.

Hart said Coburn was confident the amendment will be approved again, noting that the measure received support from 27 Democrats in the Senate, including the majority leader, Sen. Harry Reid.

The measure, adopted by wide margins in the House of Representatives and the Senate, allows licensed gun owners to bring firearms into national parks and wildlife refuges as long as they are allowed by state law.

Hart said Congress clearly intended for the law to take effect soon, adding that Coburn was disappointed the law apparently will not be in place this summer, when national parks are most crowded.

Faehner, the conservation association official, called national parks among the safest places in the United States. According to the FBI's Uniform Crime Report, there were 1.65 violent crimes per 100,000 national park visitors in 2006, far below the national average for violent crime.

Coburn countered that parks are not crime-free and that the law would help law-abiding people fight human and animal threats.

The vote allowing guns in parks was a bitter disappointment for gun-control proponents, who watched as a Democratic-controlled Congress handed a victory to gun-rights advocates that they did not achieve under

Republican rule. Democratic opponents blamed the National Rifle Association, which pushed hard for the gun law.

Republicans said gun owners simply want to exercise their rights under the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. The Republicans called the current policy confusing to those who visit public lands, noting that merely traveling from state-owned parks to national parks meant some visitors were violating the law.

Ok...so it looks like as of now it is 9 months.

With a little luck it could be sooner.

Also it looks like state law can prohibit carry in National Parks if the choose to.

[analog_kidd]

The way I understand Nat'l Park carry, it should be legal right now thanks to the Bush order, but was blocked by injunction from an activist judge. So now that it is law, and obviously the desire of the people, could the judge be persuaded to drop the injunction? And if he did, would Bush's rule be back in effect?

[mcurrier]

The way I understand Nat'l Park carry, it should be legal right now thanks to the Bush order, but was blocked by injunction from an activist judge. So now that it is law, and obviously the desire of the people, could the judge be persuaded to drop the injunction? And if he did, would Bush's rule be back in effect?

A very interesting question. Can someone from the NRA legal team answer that?

[Fallguy]

The DOI had already put the rule change into place, then the judge issued the injunction.

So I can't say for sure, but I would think if the injunciton was lifted, then the rule change by the DOI would be back in effect.

[Oh Shoot]

The DOI had already put the rule change into place, then the judge issued the injunction.

So I can't say for sure, but I would think if the injunciton was lifted, then the rule change by the DOI would be back in effect.

Yes, it would seem that you could not legally enjoin a "rule" that now is the same as a passed law.

However, the passed law isn't in effect until whenever in February.

Does seem if someone simply appealed the injunction on the above basis, it would be lifted. Except the decision to lift might be withheld as long as February anyway, who knows.

Just another silly mess from that federal government that is only there to help us.

- OS

[Moped]

I think everyone is missing the big point here. You all are concentrating on the right to carry in the national parks and that's great! But the real point to this, is the Anti-Gunners don't have the votes to stop Pro-Gun laws, little alone have the votes to PASS Anti-Gun Legislation. That is huge!!! You can thank the Red State Democrats for that! They stood up to the pressure from the national liberal leadership and voted for what is right! You can also thank the Republicans for continuing to stand by us!

As for Lamar Alexander, it's looking more and more like he is not going to get my vote come the next election.

[Wingshooter]

I think everyone is missing the big point here. You all are concentrating on the right to carry in the national parks and that's great! But the real point to this, is the Anti-Gunners don't have the votes to stop Pro-Gun laws, little alone have the votes to PASS Anti-Gun Legislation. That is huge!!! You can thank the Red State Democrats for that! They stood up to the pressure from the national liberal leadership and voted for what is right! You can also thank the Republicans for continuing to stand by us!

As for Lamar Alexander, it's looking more and more like he is not going to get my vote come the next election.

Good point! I hope it continues.

[Guest FroggyOne2]

Alexander didn't get my vote the last time.. Neither did Corker.

[Mike.357]

I was not clear as to when this takes effect but I received an email from the NRA and this is a snip from it that clarifies things

On Wednesday, NRA-backed legislation to restore the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding citizens in national parks and wildlife refuges passed in the U.S. House of Representatives by an overwhelming bipartisan majority of 279-147. Today, the measure was signed into law and, as specified in the legislation, will take effect in nine months, on February 22, 2010.

I also guess the reason in the delay is so they can claim the are supporters of gun rights, but so they have enough time to screw us out of this again.

[G27]

As for Lamar Alexander, it's looking more and more like he is not going to get my vote come the next election.

Holy crap, what else does he have to do - kill your dog?

[leroy]

I think everyone is missing the big point here. You all are concentrating on the right to carry in the national parks and that's great! But the real point to this, is the Anti-Gunners don't have the votes to stop Pro-Gun laws, little alone have the votes to PASS Anti-Gun Legislation. That is huge!!! You can thank the Red State Democrats for that! They stood up to the pressure from the national liberal leadership and voted for what is right! You can also thank the Republicans for continuing to stand by us!

As for Lamar Alexander, it's looking more and more like he is not going to get my vote come the next election.

I think this is a good observation and agree in part with " But the real point to this, is the Anti-Gunners don't have the votes (read this as are too smart now to vote to) to stop Pro-Gun laws, little alone have the votes to PASS Anti-Gun Legislation. That is huge!!!"

On a larger scale, I would advise against believing that the Dems are suddenly turning pro-gun and pro-liberty; they simply are not. You cannot SURVIVE and be an "insider" and a great influence in the Democratic party and be pro-gun. The old time "Blue-Dog Democrats" ultimately turned in to Republicans for this very reason (among other things). I doubt the Dems will try to do anything with gun legislation in this first Oboma term; they will wait for the second term and try to pass all the legislation they can; probably using some pretext to do so. This is simply a long term strategy; not a turn about in the party thinking and overall goals. Dont be fooled into believing that today's Democrat Party is the same one as the one that elected Roosevelt and Truman, were patriotic, and supported individual liberties -- they simply are not. They are far more like the socialist trash that destroyed Russia and enslaved millions. They are the greatest threat to this country today.

Kind regards,

LEROY

[greenego]

I just got this email from Advanta. Always paid in full. Never late. I am sure from what I have read about this bill that many of us will have our cards canceled and or grace periods done away with. Credit is only going to get tighter.

For Your Security: Account ending in

---------------------------------------------------

Dear Customer,

Your Advanta Business Card account is funded by an independent trust which owns the balances you owe on your account and provides funding for new transactions. We expect the trust to stop funding activity on our accounts. The trust also restricts our flexibility to fund activity on your account. Unfortunately, as a result, effective May 30th all Advanta Business Credit Card accounts, including your account, will be closed.

This means that you will not be able to use your card or account for new transactions, including purchases, checks and balance transfers beginning on May 30th. We understand that you may have written checks on your account before May 30th and we will make every effort to honor those checks that are presented to us for payment by June 3rd. If you use your Advanta card to make automatic recurring bill payments, you will need to make alternative arrangements for those payments promptly.

It is important to understand that you are not required to pay your entire balance at this time. You may continue to pay down your account balance over time, as allowed under your Advanta Business Card Agreement.

You will not lose the rewards that you have earned. If you participate in a Cash Back program, you will receive a check for the amount of any accrued rewards more than $1.00 as long as you make the required minimum payments and your account remains in good standing. If you participate in a Business Rewards program, you will have at least 60 days to redeem your points as long as you make the required minimum payments and your account remains in good standing.

We deeply regret the impact this action will have on your business and very much wish it was not necessary.

We are committed to assist you through this process. Additional information will be available at www.advanta.com/notice. If you have any other questions or concerns, or if we can assist you in any other way, please feel free to contact our Customer Service Center. You can email us your questions 24 hours a day at www.advanta.com/secure or call us toll free at (800) 705-7255, Monday - Friday 8:00 am to 8:00 pm and Saturday 8:00 am to 5:00 pm Eastern Time.

Sincerely,

[Moped]

I think this is a good observation and agree in part with " But the real point to this, is the Anti-Gunners don't have the votes (read this as are too smart now to vote to) to stop Pro-Gun laws, little alone have the votes to PASS Anti-Gun Legislation. That is huge!!!"

On a larger scale, I would advise against believing that the Dems are suddenly turning pro-gun and pro-liberty; they simply are not. You cannot SURVIVE and be an "insider" and a great influence in the Democratic party and be pro-gun. The old time "Blue-Dog Democrats" ultimately turned in to Republicans for this very reason (among other things). I doubt the Dems will try to do anything with gun legislation in this first Oboma term; they will wait for the second term and try to pass all the legislation they can; probably using some pretext to do so. This is simply a long term strategy; not a turn about in the party thinking and overall goals. Dont be fooled into believing that today's Democrat Party is the same one as the one that elected Roosevelt and Truman, were patriotic, and supported individual liberties -- they simply are not. They are far more like the socialist trash that destroyed Russia and enslaved millions. They are the greatest threat to this country today.

Kind regards,

LEROY

I not think the Democratic Leadership has changed. However I think in order for them to control both houses the Party had to move to the middle. Those Democrats that come from Red States were the ones that controlled the vote last week. I don't think for a moment, we are totally safe, but it could have been much worse.

Of course there are Republicans that cannot be trusted as well (Lamar Alexander). My personal opinion is that both parties are full of vipers and Washington at some point should be cleaned out or we as a free nation are doomed. I trust neither party anymore. I vote now based on the character of each man and woman that is running. I guess that makes me an Independent, but the older I get the more in line my views are with the Liberatarian Party.

Still I took encouragement from last weeks vote. I believe that if the Democratic leadership could have stopped that vote in some way they would have done so.

[leroy]

I not think the Democratic Leadership has changed. However I think in order for them to control both houses the Party had to move to the middle. ...

I trust neither party anymore. I vote now based on the character of each man and woman that is running. I guess that makes me an Independent, but the older I get the more in line my views are with the Liberatarian Party.

...

There's lots of truth in your observations. I feel like most folks yearn for honesty in government. You are also right in that the character and world view of each person; be they polititian, child, or next door neighbor is the most important thing you can have. It is a fact that factions within both political parties are dirty and self serving; it's basically a people problem. That is why it is vitally important to populate these parties with people who are honest men and women of character.

With regard to a third party; I do not think that a third party is viable -- it simply takes too long to build strength; and I don't think we have the time. That means you need to pick an existing party and work to make it what it should be.

There are those who believe that if the Republicans dont get their bearings and go back the the philosophies of smaller government and constitutional principles that the party is doomed. I share that view. I have a 20 year old son who thinks if the Repubs. dont straighten up; they will morph right into the Democratic party; and a new party will take their place. It is my view, that if this happens, this country and the freedoms we now enjoy (including the right to bear arms) will be taken away and we'll look like europe; Britan in particular. This would be catastrophic for those of us who believe in American principles and love liberty -- the people of Britain and europe are effectively serfs; not citizens. The only rights they have come from polititians in government.

I believe firmly that we are living in some of the most dangerous times in American history, and the danger is not outside the country---it's inside. Do not be fooled into believing that the Democratic Party as it is currently constituted and headed up is a force for freedom; it simply is not. Those who sit at the head of the party and call the shots are, for the most part, radical socialist who are capable of being just as bad or worse than Stalin or Mao. They would have no problem in tearing up the Constitution and rescinding the Bill of Rights and making us all serfs. I will grant that there are factions withing the Republican party who are self-serving elites full of silly ideas. The most silly of which is that Republicans should be like Democrats; I'ts an idiotic philosophy. I firmly believe that citizens who love liberty had better start working with their time, talents, and pocket book to rehabilitate the Republican party; or we will be serfs.

A wise man once said :"There are four boxes protecting America; the soapbox (this forum is one), the ballot box (we're discussing it now), the jury box, and the cartridge box." The jury box is getting pretty corrupt for the most part. Let's hope and pray that we and our children dont have to use the cartridge box.

Kind regards,

LEROY

[macville]

There are those who believe that if the Republicans dont get their bearings and go back the the philosophies of smaller government and constitutional principles that the party is doomed. I share that view. I have a 20 year old son who thinks if the Repubs. dont straighten up; they will morph right into the Democratic party; and a new party will take their place.

Don't look now, but sadly the republicans are already dems. At least it seems like the majority are. Think of last year's election. McCain, Rudy, Alexander, etc.... Neil Bortz on Friday said that the problem with Republicans is the Pro-Life people. I don't believe that's the case. It's the moderates who SAY they are Pro-Life and therefore get Pro-Lifers votes without thinking. Personally, I am very Pro-Life, but I think it's better to be more about the Consititution because the idea of not killing babies is built into into it (you know, the right to LIFE, liberty, and justice.)

What I really want to see is NORMAL people (AKA, non lawyers & bankers) run for office. If someone was to challange Alexander or Corker who was truly a normal citizen, I would do all I can to get them elected. I just want to see people run whos first words out of their mouth is, "it's about the Consitution stupid!" All the conservative values (smaller gov, low taxes, etc.) are basically THE consitution. Maybe we should change our logo from an elephanpt to just an image of the constitution?!

Matthew

[leroy]

Don't look now, but sadly the republicans are already dems. At least it seems like the majority are. Think of last year's election. McCain, Rudy, Alexander, etc.... .......... Personally, I am very Pro-Life, but I think it's better to be more about the Consititution because the idea of not killing babies is built into into it (you know, the right to LIFE, liberty, and justice.)

What I really want to see is NORMAL people (AKA, non lawyers & bankers) run for office. If someone was to challange Alexander or Corker who was truly a normal citizen, I would do all I can to get them elected. I just want to see people run whos first words out of their mouth is, "it's about the Consitution stupid!" All the conservative values (smaller gov, low taxes, etc.) are basically THE consitution. Maybe we should change our logo from an elephanpt to just an image of the constitution?!

Matthew

Well said!! This is, at it's heart, about the constitution. If you follow the constitution; all this other stuff works its self out. If the Republicans don't figure this great truth out; they will be extinct very shortly. I believe that there are some "real people" out there; the lady that is chairman of the TN Republican Party is one of them. Our state senator, Tim Burchart is another. I'm sure there are others.

Keep up the good work!!

Kind regards,

LEROY

[mcurrier]

Don't look now, but sadly the republicans are already dems. At least it seems like the majority are. Think of last year's election. McCain, Rudy, Alexander, etc.... Neil Bortz on Friday said that the problem with Republicans is the Pro-Life people. I don't believe that's the case. It's the moderates who SAY they are Pro-Life and therefore get Pro-Lifers votes without thinking. Personally, I am very Pro-Life, but I think it's better to be more about the Consititution because the idea of not killing babies is built into into it (you know, the right to LIFE, liberty, and justice.)

What I really want to see is NORMAL people (AKA, non lawyers & bankers) run for office. If someone was to challange Alexander or Corker who was truly a normal citizen, I would do all I can to get them elected. I just want to see people run whos first words out of their mouth is, "it's about the Consitution stupid!" All the conservative values (smaller gov, low taxes, etc.) are basically THE consitution. Maybe we should change our logo from an elephanpt to just an image of the constitution?!

Matthew

HUZZAH! Well said my patriotic friend.

[Oh Shoot]

HUZZAH! Well said my patriotic friend.

I'm "Pro Choice" but consider myself equally "patriotic".

- OS

[Guest kcnative]

Anyone know the status on the nat'l park cary bill attached to this? Haven't heard anything about it in a while. This is the last I read of it:

-------

On Wednesday, NRA-backed legislation to restore the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding citizens in national parks and wildlife refuges passed in the U.S. House of Representatives by an overwhelming bipartisan majority of 279-147. Today, the measure was signed into law and, as specified in the legislation, will take effect in nine months, on February 22, 2010.

--------

Does that mean it's good to go, we just have to wait until 2/22/10?

Edited June 4, 2009 by kcnative