Credit Card Bill Forces Dems to Take Vote on Gun Rights

[mcurrier]

Credit Card Bill Forces Dems to Take Vote on Gun Rights

The Democrat-led Congress is intent on sending to President Obama's desk legislation that would impose sweeping restrictions on credit card companies in the name of consumer protection. But to do so without further delay, lawmakers have to take a vote against gun control.

Credit Card Bill Forces Dems to Take Vote on Gun Rights - Presidential Politics | Political News - FOXNews.com

"But navigating around a gun amendment takes delicate legislative maneuvering, and anti-gun Democrats will have a chance to go on record against the amendment without torpedoing the overall bill.

That's because the House will hold two votes: one for the credit card end of things, one for the firearms portion. This gives anti-gun members political cover by allowing them to vote against the guns amendment and then for the credit card bill.

But the Coburn amendment showed that a surprising number of Democrats -- 27 on the Senate side -- are willing to back legislation expanding gun rights.

Among those who voted "yes" was Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada..."

"Spokesman Jim Manley said Reid is a strong supporter of the Second Amendment, adding that the guns in parks issue was a major concern for many Nevadans."

[oldogy]

IMO, this is one big reason the US is in a mess. Legislators must prostitute themselves to get what they want. Single item legislation would put the blame squarely where it is due, let us know how our elected officials really feel when they vote.

oldogy

[Guest Vincent]

I read today that Obama is expected to sign the bill even with the gun issue tacked to it.

So many anti gun laws were passed this very way that it is ironic that we are now passing pro gun laws using this method.

Senators Feinstein & Boxer from my FORMER state of CA have to absolutely hate this;) Generally anything they hate makes me a happy guy:up:

[Guest truthsayer]

It reinforces shady political practices. I'm happy that the legislation passed, but I detest this type of political underhandedness.

[G27]

Passed the House today.

And I agree 100% with truthsayer.

[Guest Swamprunner]

Notably, Sen. Alexander voted AGAINST this. No wonder he won't acknowledge my letters and e-mails. If I have to vote democrat, I'll vote against him.

[mcurrier]

And it passes and Obammy will sign it on Friday.

Congress Approves Bill Restricting Credit Card Industry, Allowing Guns in Parks - Presidential Politics | Political News - FOXNews.com

I also agree with Truthsayer, I've never understood this b.s. of attaching something to a bill that has no relation whatsoever to it in any way. Vote on one bill at a time. One topic at a time.

Alexander proves himself to be once again. We need to start grooming someone to replace that idiot. Alexander! You reading this? You'd better be.

[mcurrier]

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/national-politics-legislation/21543-credit-card-bill-forces-dems-take-vote-gun-rights.html#post281270

Obammy will sign on Friday.

[Guest jos2f]

And it passes and Obammy will sign it on Friday.

So, if OBambam signs it on Friday, does this mean it immediately becomes law?

The Fox article says "National Parks and wildlife refuges". Does this mean state parks are not covered by it? IE Cedars of Lebanon, Rock Island etc

[Guest bkelm18]

Not the route I would have liked but at least we'll be able to carry again.

[memphismason]

It reinforces shady political practices. I'm happy that the legislation passed, but I detest this type of political underhandedness.

+1,000

[Fallguy]

True bkelm18, but I'm still happy.

So does this become effective immediately when he signs it?

[Oh Shoot]

Sounds like carry permit has nothing to do with it, right?

Long guns, handguns, all? Open, concealed, both?

Where's the actual text of the dang thang?

- OS

[Guest bkelm18]

The Fox article says "National Parks and wildlife refuges". Does this mean state parks are not covered by it? IE Cedars of Lebanon, Rock Island etc

Nope. State Park carry is up to each individual state to allow or not allow. There is current legislation in TN that would allow it.

[Fallguy]

Sounds like carry permit has nothing to do with it, right?

Long guns, handguns, all? Open, concealed, both?

Where's the actual text of the dang thang?

- OS

Here is what I found.

SEC. 512. PROTECTING AMERICANS FROM VIOLENT CRIME.

(a) Congressional Findings- Congress finds the following:

(1) The Second Amendment to the Constitution provides that `the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed'.

(2) Section 2.4(a)(1) of title 36, Code of Federal Regulations, provides that `except as otherwise provided in this section and parts 7 (special regulations) and 13 (Alaska regulations), the following are prohibited: (i) Possessing a weapon, trap or net (ii) Carrying a weapon, trap or net (iii) Using a weapon, trap or net'.

(3) Section 27.42 of title 50, Code of Federal Regulations, provides that, except in special circumstances, citizens of the United States may not `possess, use, or transport firearms on national wildlife refuges' of the United States Fish and Wildlife Service.

(4) The regulations described in paragraphs (2) and (3) prevent individuals complying with Federal and State laws from exercising the second amendment rights of the individuals while at units of--

(A) the National Park System; and

(

the National Wildlife Refuge System.

(5) The existence of different laws relating to the transportation and possession of firearms at different units of the National Park System and the National Wildlife Refuge System entrapped law-abiding gun owners while at units of the National Park System and the National Wildlife Refuge System.

(6) Although the Bush administration issued new regulations relating to the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding citizens in units of the National Park System and National Wildlife Refuge System that went into effect on January 9, 2009--

(A) on March 19, 2009, the United States District Court for the District of Columbia granted a preliminary injunction with respect to the implementation and enforcement of the new regulations; and

(

the new regulations--

(i) are under review by the administration; and

(ii) may be altered.

(7) Congress needs to weigh in on the new regulations to ensure that unelected bureaucrats and judges cannot again override the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding citizens on 83,600,000 acres of National Park System land and 90,790,000 acres of land under the jurisdiction of the United States Fish and Wildlife Service.

(8) The Federal laws should make it clear that the second amendment rights of an individual at a unit of the National Park System or the National Wildlife Refuge System should not be infringed.

(

Protecting the Right of Individuals To Bear arms in Units of the National Park System and the National Wildlife Refuge System- The Secretary of the Interior shall not promulgate or enforce any regulation that prohibits an individual from possessing a firearm including an assembled or functional firearm in any unit of the National Park System or the National Wildlife Refuge System if--

(1) the individual is not otherwise prohibited by law from possessing the firearm; and

(

2) the possession of the firearm is in compliance with the law of the State in which the unit of the National Park System or the National Wildlife Refuge System is located.

So based on ( it seem it applies to all firearms (long guns and handguns) and to National Parks and Wildlife Refuges.

So if/when TN passes allowing loaded long guns in vehicles by those with a HCP you could even traverse a National Park or Wildlife Refuge in TN with a loaded long gun.

Edited May 21, 2009 by Fallguy

[Mike.357]

this is extremely confusing to me.

Bottom line, Will this allow conceal carry in the Smoky Mtns with a valid TN HCP?

[Oh Shoot]

Here is what I found.

<snip the law>

So based on ( it seem it applies to all firearms (long guns and handguns) and to National Parks and Wildlife Refuges.

So if/when TN passes allowing loaded long guns in vehicles by those with a HCP you could even traverse a National Park or Wildlife Refuge in TN with a loaded long gun.

Thanks, but well, I dunno. Little gray to me still, I'm afraid. Going by:

"(2) the possession of the firearm is in compliance with the law of the State in which the unit of the National Park System or the National Wildlife Refuge System is located."

Seems to me that only HCP holder could carry a handgun, but he could carry it either concealed or openly. And I guess we're back to the reciprocity thing for carry in Parks in other states.

Nobody, currently, could carry a loaded long gun period. If the proposed law changes, then a HCP holder could carry a loaded long gun in vehicle only.

You concur, FG?

- OS

[Oh Shoot]

this is extremely confusing to me.

Bottom line, Will this allow conceal carry in the Smoky Mtns with a valid TN HCP?

Looks like yes on that particular thing.

- OS

[Fallguy]

this is extremely confusing to me.

Bottom line, Will this allow conceal carry in the Smoky Mtns with a valid TN HCP?

Yes.

IMO the part that says "the possession of the firearm is in compliance with the law of the State" means whatever is legal on "main street" is legal in the National Park and Wildlife Refuge. Unless there is a state law that has something about National Parks and Wildlife refuges to the contrary.

Seems to me that only HCP holder could carry a handgun, but he could carry it either concealed or openly. And I guess we're back to the reciprocity thing for carry in Parks in other states.

Nobody, currently, could carry a loaded long gun period. If the proposed law changes, then a HCP holder could carry a loaded long gun in vehicle only.

You concur, FG?

- OS

Yes...in TN.

But in some states you can carry without a permit, VT and AK...so in those I don't think you would need any permit. Also in many states you can OC without a permit...so it looks like you could OC in the National Park in those states without a permit.

Also some states allow loaded long guns.....so again looks like in those states a loaded long gun would be ok in so far as whatever is allowed by state law.

Edited May 20, 2009 by Fallguy

[GLOCKMEISTER]

Thanks, but well, I dunno. Little gray to me still, I'm afraid. Going by:

"(2) the possession of the firearm is in compliance with the law of the State in which the unit of the National Park System or the National Wildlife Refuge System is located."

Seems to me that only HCP holder could carry a handgun, but he could carry it either concealed or openly. And I guess we're back to the reciprocity thing for carry in Parks in other states.

Nobody, currently, could carry a loaded long gun period. If the proposed law changes, then a HCP holder could carry a loaded long gun in vehicle only.

You concur, FG?

- OS

YES... thats the way I see it... at least right now.

[Oh Shoot]

Yes.

IMO the part that says "the possession of the firearm is in compliance with the law of the State" means whatever is legal on "main street" is legal in the National Park and Wildlife Refuge. Unless there is a state law that has something about National Parks and Wildlife refuges to the contrary.

The prohibition for "federal buildings" would probably still stand, though - no mention of that here.

So, we're still, like, must disarm to go into a restroom/visitor center.

- OS

[GLOCKMEISTER]

im not so sure, I remember something about that somewhere too... I'll ck... how about you FG?

[Fallguy]

The prohibition for "federal buildings" would probably still stand, though - no mention of that here.

So, we're still, like, must disarm to go into a restroom/visitor center.

- OS

I concur

Also...any state could still pass a law against carry in a National Park or Wildlife Refuge or place certain restrictions it appears. This seems to only prohibit the Secretary of the Interior from doing any such thing...not state legislatures.

[GLOCKMEISTER]

I think the wording... "any unit" covers buildings too doesnt it? Not a federal building of course, but the visitors center and restroom in any park should be good to go.

Edited May 20, 2009 by GLOCKMEISTER

[Fallguy]

I think the wording... "any unit" covers buildings too doesnt it?

I don't think that means buildings, but that whether it is a park or natural area or historic trail or etc... it applies to them as long as the place falls under the National Park System.

Edited May 21, 2009 by Fallguy