What Should I Expect at 100 Yards?

[DavidCBaker]

I'd like a little help with perspective on some longer range stuff. This is my first time to shoot anything at 100 yards, and the first time I'd shot this gun, but I was expecting tighter groups. I just don't know if my expectations are whacky, the gusty winds might have affected this, or my technique sucks.

The machine:

Savage 12 Long-Range Precision Varmint Dual .204 Ruger w/ Leupold VX3L 6.5-20x56

The scope was new, too, so I started by sighting it in. At 50 yards, I couldn't even get it on the target. So I stepped back to 25 yards, took the bolt out, sighted manually through the barrel, found the target, and so on. Then back to 50 and out to 100. There were light gusty winds, and after trying both 32-grain and 40-grain Hornady, I settled on the 40-grain because it was a lot more consistent.

After getting it sighted in, I then shot three rounds at 100 yards:

If my calculations are correct, this is ca. 1.25 MOA. Surely I can do better than that, right? I would think the gun is easily capable of better. Maybe it's a matter of breaking in the barrel, a little less wind, and better consistency on my part?

This is new to me.

[323ssplt]

There are a ton of variables when it comes to rifle shooting. First is you. Are you consistently getting the same cheek weld and eye relieve each shot? Are you applying the same pressure on the trigger (and pistol grip) each time. Also, how many rounds did you fire before shooting this group? Did you clean the barrel between a certain number of rounds? Did you clean the barrel the same way each time, or different? All of these things can cause erroneous shots. That rifle itsself should be capable of sub MOA, but then again not every one will produce that type of accuracy.

Sorry for no definative answeres, but too many questions have to be answered first.

And at 100 yards, a light breeze should have virtually no affect on those rounds. However, the wind could be affecting you.

[DavidCBaker]

Thanks--like you said, no specific answers, but just those questions are very helpful to me. They raise some points I hadn't thought of, like eye relief and cheek weld. I did notice that just moving my head a tiny bit changed the POA even if the gun was steady. Good to know that the wind wouldn't have been messing with the bullet, too.

So maybe that's a decent start and I just need to pay a lot more attention to consistency.

[Guest Mugster]

If thats the first group you've ever shot with a rifle, i'd say thats pretty good shooting. You should try 5 or even 10 shots. Gives a better reflection of what the rig which includes the ammo is capable of. Might look at a decent rest setup.

I would think you could get that rifle/scope to MOA or under, but thats not bad for factory ammo. You may have to handload or use premium target as opposed to hunting ammo to do it, but the .204 is a varminting rig. The way its shooting now, it's good in terms of its mission.

You should measure the groups center to center of the widest holes, discounting none.

[Guest gunslinger707]

First time at 100yds.first time with rhe rifle,new scope,gusty wind.

all these considered DANG GOOD Shootin if ya ask me !!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest Crunchman]

My Savage M12 in 22-250 is capable of less than .25 5 shot groups at 100 yds., if I do my part right. However, it has had over 500 rounds through it and a lot of those were developmental rounds, before I found just the right bullet/brass/powder/primer/OAL. I also put a piece of the blue masking tape on the comb to make sure I always put my cheek in exactly the right/same spot. The rest is controlled breathing, reading the wind,consistent trigger squeeze,holding the exact same sight picture every time, and crossing your mental fingers.

If you don't roll you own, make sure that you use the same lot # of factory bullets for any one range session. I have seen different lots open a group up as much as .5 to 1 moa. For that matter, I've seen bulk bullets vary by several grains out of the same box, which is why I learned to weigh each and every bullet.

[JimmyJoe69]

I think everyone has missed the first thing you need to look for when trying to shoot tight groups. Make sure you are on a ROCK SOLID rest.... no truck hoods or truck tailgates or four-wheeler racks, etc. Many people overlook this simple fact and wonder why their rifle will not group. And once you get your rest make sure you sandbag the weapon.... none of this "rolled-up jacket" stuff.

Edited May 18, 2009 by JimmyJoe69

[Guest 2HOW]

I think everyone has missed the first thing you need to look for when trying to shoot tight groups. Make sure you are on a ROCK SOLID rest.... no truck hoods or truck tailgates or four-wheeler racks, etc. Many people overlook this simple fact and wonder why their rifle will not group. And once you get your rest make sure you sandbag the weapon.... none of this "rolled-up jacket" stuff.

+1, also remember to let the barrel cool between shots, you mentioned bullet weight but not type so I cant comment on that.

[Mark@Sea]

Col. Cooper used to say, if you want a tight group, shoot once

Welcome to precision rifle!

[DavidCBaker]

+1, also remember to let the barrel cool between shots, you mentioned bullet weight but not type so I cant comment on that.

This grouping was Hornady V-Max 40 grain.

[DavidCBaker]

Col. Cooper used to say, if you want a tight group, shoot once

Welcome to precision rifle!

That's good.

So you're saying I can't be an instant expert? I thought that's what happened in America!

[Mark@Sea]

This game becomes more of an art than a science. Reading the wind, judging distance, spinning projectiles to ensure they are perfect, grouping cases by 1/10th of a grain capacity differences, depth of seating, humidity...

You're taking the first step on a long journey, grasshopper. When you come to the end of the journey, you will find that rifle zen is placing that one (first) shot precisely where it needs to be. The shots you took before are past, and the past cannot be changed. The shots you will take in the future are nothing. The shot you are taking now is the only one that matters.

[Guest SUNTZU]

Once you can hit the target with your first shot, then it will be time for you to leave...

[Slappy]

I would also like to mention that you might want to have a friend shoot the rifle as well. That way it would eliminate any variable that you yourself might be causing (no offense intended, I would do the same if it were me).

[DavidCBaker]

Great idea, and certainly no offense taken. I'm fairly certain the problem is me. I've got a good friend with a lot of experience who can do just that for me.

[gregintenn]

Looks like a good start to me!

[leroy]

If the upper hole is the first shot; you are well on your way. It is not uncommon for the first shot out of a rifle to be the flier because of the fact that the barrel is clean.

Always shoot a couple of fouling shots and allow a few minutes between each individual shot if the barrel is a sporter or standard barrel. It wont make much difference with a heavy or varmint barrel. My guess is that the 204 will easily shoot into a "dime sized" three shot group if the barrel is fouled. We used to shoot dime sized groups regularly with either a 222 or 223 in a bolt action gun using a 12 to 20 power scope. Be sure to rest the fore end of the rifle on shotbags and use a rear bag if you have one. We always cleaned the barrel after about 5 shots plus 2 foulers to get the best groups.

The comments about a constant cheek weld and repeatable look thru the scope are also important. Always make sure that you are looking straight thru the center of the scope; that fixes any parallax problem that the scope may have. You may want to check around your gun club for a real oldtime benchrest shooting guy and talk to him. They are a great source of tricks and techniques for shooting extra small groups. Outside of technique; the greatest help in shrinking groups is careful handloading with precision bullets.

Hope this helps,

Kind Regards,

LEROY

[Fadex]

If you want to get REALLLLLLYYYYYYY picky, find a heart monitor and time your shot between heartbeats while pausing your breath. Fun stuff.

[Guest gcrookston]

5 shot group @ 100 yards with 52 gr. Match:

and a flyer... from this rifle:

3 / 3 shot groups @ 100 yrds with 168gr. match:

with this rifle:

Precision shooting is made of up 5 components. 1. The shooter. 2. The rifle. 3. the optics. 4. the ammunition. 5. the conditions