What is Tenn. law on this scenario?

[Fallguy]

It's really more of the opposite. The main purpose of the carry class is the laws. Hence the video and all. Most classes have to cram in anything besides basic safety and shooting skills.

we cover a great deal on the laws and scenarios just like this one. We also take time for all our students to ask about specific situations that might arise they may need advice about.

This should have been covered in his class, and reputable instructor should have covered it.

Ok...but I'm still curious as to what is required by the state?

[mrbond]

The law can be subjective. What's really the determination is first the DA and then a jury. It's not always whether you feel your life is in imminent danger, it's whether a DA and jury will agree with you.

A potential a$$ whipping is not necessarily an imminent danger to your life. Your loss of pride, while humiliating, is never an imminent danger to your life. For most people, a broken arm doesn't put your life in imminent danger. TN courts have already held a broken nose does not put your life in imminent danger and does not justify the use of deadly force. Then there's other factors as well, your age, sex, and health and physical strength versus that of your attackers.

Bottom line, your panic doesn't necessarily prove you right by TN law. Before I pulled my gun and had to shoot someone who just wanted to fight and who appeared to be unarmed, I'd want plenty of my blood and bruises to justify my actions.

For the most part, Georgia (where I'm from) has better carry laws in this situation and also in property defense situations (you can use deadly force to protect property in Georgia).

the law will have the final determination of whether or not you made the correct decision.

Edited May 16, 2009 by mrbond

[ftncityfatboy]

+1. I'm there too.

You should always fear a greybeard. We're too old to run and too ornery to put up with too much crap.

Ditto here....I'm too out of shape to run, too many worn out joints to fight, to proud to take an a$$ whoopin, to contrary to walk away. It's another one of those "what if" situations. I just hope that I never have to be in that position and make that choice. These things you can play out and come up with a great solution in forums, but the bottom line is, what would I REALLY do????

[GLOCKMEISTER]

Ok...but I'm still curious as to what is required by the state?

pretty much show and concure with a tape with the wrong information thats 10 years old. Some times what the state wants us to do is a joke.

[mcurrier]

I'm gonna kick him square in the nuts if he's that close. There's no block for that. End of threat.

Let me demonstrate -

[Raoul]

"After all, I could have shot him, you know."

- OS

That's my favorite quote of the thread, hands down.

[Guest pontiac_fiero_g]

me personally i beleive that common sense trups the law, that is if i feel that my life or well being is in danger i will do whatever it takes to protect me or my woman even if that means breaking a law because i cant get a lawyer to bring me back to life or repair a broken jawbone but i can have one get me out of jail or worst case scenario ill do my sentence but still be alive. so the point is do what you gotta do to keep safe no matter what

[Fallguy]

pretty much show and concure with a tape with the wrong information thats 10 years old. Some times what the state wants us to do is a joke.

I just barely remember that tape, don't really remember what was in it...but at least it was brand new at the time I watched it...lol

[K191145]

I'm gonna punch him square in the throat and run like hell. Honestly this is why, as many instructors and such here have said, you need to be prepared to handle some situations without a gun.

Know how to defend yourself and get away, carry pepper spray, etc.

OhShoot and others may have an easier time relaying threat. I'm 6'4 180 pounds athletic and 24. If it's one on one I guess me and ole boy are tusslin' for a bit.

I often carry a small can of pepper spray, I wonder, if you use the spray and still have to draw your handgun, a jury or DA might believe that you tried non-leathal force first and may be more sympathetic towards you.

[alwayspackin]

One on one, you better fight first then kill the SOB. The jury will go threw it with a fine tooth comb. Multiple people around then yes you could say you where in fear of your life and be justified. Your wording is everything in a situation like this. I would recommend asking for an attorney when the police arrive just to buy yourself some time to calm down. You can always explain yourself after asking for an attorney. All it takes is for you to say the wrong thing and you are going to the pokey!

[K191145]

One on one, you better fight first then kill the SOB. The jury will go threw it with a fine tooth comb. Multiple people around then yes you could say you where in fear of your life and be justified. Your wording is everything in a situation like this. I would recommend asking for an attorney when the police arrive just to buy yourself some time to calm down. You can always explain yourself after asking for an attorney. All it takes is for you to say the wrong thing and you are going to the pokey!

I remember when I took my CCW class many moons ago, the instructor, an ex-cop advised us that if we were in a shooting situation to have a medical situation when the cops arrive such as hyperventilating and chest pains as if you were having an anxiety attack. They don't know if your having a heart attack so they have to give you medical attention and if the ER gives you drugs such as a seditive any statement you make can't be used in court.

That's what he advised.

[strickj]

Sems all these topics go in the same direction,huh.

[K191145]

Sems all these topics go in the same direction,huh.

Well it's just a hypothetical situation anyway, so far I've been able to avoid esculating a situation where I would have to draw or show my weapon. I have also discovered that since I got my permit and started carrying, I avoid getting into bird flipping contests with anyone on the road simply because I don't want to esculate a silly situation into something more serious.

[Guest canynracer]

Me? If there is only one of them...very LOUD verbal commands, STOP, STEP BACK, GO AWAY.....as my shirt clears the handle and I move to defensive...or spray him with pepper spray...

more than one, I am clearing leather, while yelling to back the eff up!

[Fivestring63]

Me? If there is only one of them...very LOUD verbal commands, STOP, STEP BACK, GO AWAY.....as my shirt clears the handle and I move to defensive...or spray him with pepper spray...

more than one, I am clearing leather, while yelling to back the eff up!

Sounds like what I'd do. Might want to add, calling 911 on the cell phone. Always be the first to call.

[Guest Ggun]

I remember when I took my CCW class many moons ago, the instructor, an ex-cop advised us that if we were in a shooting situation to have a medical situation when the cops arrive such as hyperventilating and chest pains as if you were having an anxiety attack. They don't know if your having a heart attack so they have to give you medical attention and if the ER gives you drugs such as a seditive any statement you make can't be used in court.

That's what he advised.

He must have gotten that from either Fred or Aunt Esther, I can't remember which.

[andersmg]

Boy, this one really got yall stirred up!

I am glad to see so much good info on this thread. Perhaps it will help someone who reads it to know more what they can, or will do if ever in this situation.

[Guest jos2f]

I think this has been sufficiently answered when the actual law was copied and pasted. Basically our CCW instructor said that someone punching you in the face doesn't constitute reasonable belief of grave harm.

My problem with this is who is to say he'll stop once he knocked you on the ground? If he gets down on you and starts taking blows at your face, wont' take long til you pass out or can't get to your gun. It's a crappy situation from start to end

For me personally, I am much more likely to resort to my gun if my wife is with me. I'll take a chance of getting beat when I'm alone, but I'm not about to let some punks do God knows what with my wife

[Guest pws_smokeyjones]

My problem with this is who is to say he'll stop once he knocked you on the ground? If he gets down on you and starts taking blows at your face, wont' take long til you pass out or can't get to your gun. It's a crappy situation from start to end

You make a valid point. Life is not a video game. We don't walk around with health meters over our heads to let our attackers know when we are about to die or little indicators that tell us how strong our opponent is. In real life, while these thugs might just be having some fun, they might have no idea that they are about to kill someone with a kick to the head until it is too late.

Right or wrong, in this hypothetical, here is what I would do.

1. Hopefully situation awareness would allow me to see these guys far enough in advance to avoid them

2. If not, or if avoidance was not possible, once confronted (with physical movement other than verbal harassment) I would feel most likely feel threatened due to the disparity of force by me being outnumbered.

3. I would then place my hand on my weapon, step in between my signifcant other and the attackers and make it obvious that I had a weapon and was prepared to use it.

4. If possible, I would make every effort to get away from them without further escalation of the situation

5. If the attackers know that I am armed and they proceed to attack me anyway, then I know at that point that they are not just out for a fun afternoon of kickin my ass, but are interested in actually causing me harm.

6. Draw and shoot until the threat is gone, then I call 911 to explain my side of the story.

Like I said, maybe I am right or maybe I am wrong, but that is what I 'hope' I would do.

[bubbiesdad]

+1. I'm there too.

You should always fear a greybeard. We're too old to run and too ornery to put up with too much crap.

And too old to give a s#@t about consequences.

[Guest 3pugguy]

I am not a lawyer, but I think you cannot draw (brandish) your gun unless you are acting to protect yourself or another. The threat of a fight, I don't think, warrants pulling your gun.

But, you should be carrying a knife as well (a good "assisted open, 3-3.5 inch blade, can be had for 100 bucks or less). You could have that at the ready.

And your gun should be in a holster or carry device to avoid losing or someone taking it easiy, in my opinion. I use a Blackhawk with level II retention.

Tough call, though, as the bad guys are not restricted by legal niceties, so I would bet many of us would be ready to confront with a gun - but know the risks (legally) of doing so.

[Guest 3pugguy]

Hi - I took the class in December 08 (got my permit surprising quick, diff subject) and the instructor said the videos/discussion on appropriate use of deadly force were required. Had a couple of lawyers discussing, then had the show and tell videos.

As so many mention, tough to make the call from a written scenario, but we all know we have to be prepared to defend our actions if we defend ourselves. Not necessarily right, but it's the world we live in.

But I agree with the slice and dice or kick in the nuts/poke in the throat; funny how that takes the fight out of a fella.

[Guest 3pugguy]

me personally i beleive that common sense trups the law, that is if i feel that my life or well being is in danger i will do whatever it takes to protect me or my woman even if that means breaking a law because i cant get a lawyer to bring me back to life or repair a broken jawbone but i can have one get me out of jail or worst case scenario ill do my sentence but still be alive. so the point is do what you gotta do to keep safe no matter what

Well put. It all comes down to when we are the ones standing there, we will do what we have to do to defend our loved ones or ourselves. But good discussion, as so much misinformation gets put about on "the law".

Danged lawyers, anyway...

[Guest 3pugguy]

That's my favorite quote of the thread, hands down.

Ditto...classic quote!

[Guest Britestar]

You probably need to be a little bloody before you do use it. Depending on the make up of the jury.