P320 Debacle

[ken_mays]

4 hours ago, TGO David said:

S&W needs to stop letting the fudds drive their product strategies.  Anyone on TGO who is a serious student of the modern fighting pistol could make the S&W product catalog more relevant to the desires of the buying public and therefore more profitable.

I half expect them to trot out a new revolver-fed rifle, that absolutely no one is asking for, at every trade show they attend.

Agree. While there are a lot of things I like about the M&P, some of their evolutions of that line have me scratching my head, not to mention their Performance Center variants which are mostly clown shoe attempts at improvement.

Apart from that, their other lines seem to be half thought out and rushed to market.  Do you remember their latest pump shotgun which was launched and sank into irrelevance without a trace?  The Response carbine and the side folder showed some promise but both would have benefited from more refinement.  

And did we really need another half-assed take on a lever action that others have done better and cheaper?

[9mm fan]

My take on this is do what you want and get what you like. If you like the 320 then get one and pray it's not one of the lemons. I don't really care for Sig polymer guns so it's an easy pass for me.

[JustEd]

11 hours ago, TGO David said:

S&W needs to stop letting the fudds drive their product strategies.  Anyone on TGO who is a serious student of the modern fighting pistol could make the S&W product catalog more relevant to the desires of the buying public and therefore more profitable.

I half expect them to trot out a new revolver-fed rifle, that absolutely no one is asking for, at every trade show they 

 

Many of the buying public are uninformed and inexperienced with weapon handling. 
Possibly they think a “new feature or gadget” will automatically make them shoot well. Often that is not the case. It takes training and practice

Glitz sells

[TGO David]

15 hours ago, Chucktshoes said:

Smith & Wesson has zero chill. They’ve started trolling Sig pretty hard.

 

The M&P is, by and large, a really good gun too.  I don't blame them for pushing it hard in the middle of the P320 debacle because it actually should get more attention than it does.

Other than the issue that I had on one of my M2.0 Compacts with the optic screw coming cross-threaded from the factory, I have had zero problems out of them and rather like the trigger feel on the 2.0 models.  I used to carry an M&P religiously and have no reason not to do it more than I do now, other than the fact that some of my favorite holster manufacturers don't produce anything for them.

S&W really could use a better marketing team, though.  The M&P could pick up more market share than it has with better promotion.

[deerslayer]

So, for the record, have any of these SIG self-discharge issues been associated with the 365 series at all?  I really like the 365 FUSE.  

Edited Thursday at 01:15 PM by deerslayer

[larry1096]

One of the proposed causes of these 'non-commanded discharges' is incremental or vibrational effects on the sear; in other words, enough vibration or minor jarring could microscopically move the sear out of engagement (like a tiny little bit of a jar-fire) until cumulatively they leave the sear barely engaged.

This doesn't explain why the FPS isn't catching these, but it's about the most logical explanation for what could be happening I have seen, and one I haven't seen tested. It would also make sense that this affects LEO's most, since their guns tend to lead a bit rougher life than civilian's guns, and critically, can go long periods without be fired or unloaded (i.e., resetting the sear engagement.) 

I've seen a SIG-produced manual that acknowledged the risks of vibration, but can't find it again. 

 

Larry

[Chucktshoes]

[scatman]

8 hours ago, deerslayer said:

So, for the record, have any of these SIG self-discharge issues been associated with the 365 series at all?  I really like the 365 FUSE.  

Negative, there hasn't been any issues with the 365, I attribute this to them building that design from the ground up, and not just taking one frame, literally the 250/320 frames are interchangeable, and converting it to striker fired.

Edited Thursday at 09:42 PM by scatman

[Garufa]

12 minutes ago, scatman said:

Negative, there hasn't been any issues with the 365.

There actually were issues with the P365 when it was released.  As far as I know those have been resolved, although I haven’t studied on it lately, but none involved spontaneous discharges.

[Tuffus]

1 hour ago, Garufa said:

There actually were issues with the P365 when it was released.  As far as I know those have been resolved, although I haven’t studied on it lately, but none involved spontaneous discharges.

The P365 issues were solved very quickly. I got mine after they fixed the problem. I also have the 365 XL and have had no issues with either one. There is a recall on the very early models so they will take care of it if you have one of those. 

https://thegunzone.com/are-sig-sauer-p365-still-having-problems/

[Tuffus]

10 hours ago, deerslayer said:

So, for the record, have any of these SIG self-discharge issues been associated with the 365 series at all?  I really like the 365 FUSE.  

https://thegunzone.com/are-sig-sauer-p365-still-having-problems/

[1gewehr]

A little bit of drop testing on popular modern pistols:

 

[scatman]

6 hours ago, 1gewehr said:

A little bit of drop testing on popular modern pistols.

I'd like to add a note to this video, Nighthawk 1911s and 2011s, along with most other 2011 designs, don't have a firing pin safety, like series 80 Colts and series II Kimbers, so seeing them go off due to being dropped isn't that surprising.