So your buddy owns a bar

[saintsfanbrian]

According to this:

39-17-1305. Possession of firearm where alcoholic beverages are served. —

(a) It is an offense for a person to possess a firearm within the confines of a building open to the public where liquor, wine or other alcoholic beverages, as defined in § 57-3-101(a)(1)(A), or beer, as defined in § 57-6-102(1), are served for on premises consumption.

( A violation of this section is a Class A misdemeanor.

© The provisions of subsection (a) shall not apply to a person who is:

(1) In the actual discharge of official duties as a law enforcement officer, or is employed in the army, air force, navy, coast guard or marine service of the United States or any member of the Tennessee national guard in the line of duty and pursuant to military regulations, or is in the actual discharge of duties as a correctional officer employed by a penal institution; or

(2) On the person's own premises or premises under the person's control or who is the employee or agent of the owner of the premises with responsibility for protecting persons or property.

If my buddy asks me to "look after the place" while I am there, can I legally carry and conceal my handgun?

[molonlabetn]

It would be adviseable to have some proof that you are acting on his behalf... but IANAL.

[Marswolf]

I'd want to make sure it was understood that I would be "protecting persons or property." Sounds like this was intended for guards to me.

[molonlabetn]

I'd want to make sure it was understood that I would be "protecting persons or property." Sounds like this was intended for guards to me.

In that case, there may be some requirement for an armed security guard certificate, perhaps?

[Guest Kingfish]

Just have him put you on the payroll. You work 1 hour a week and the rest of the time you are still an "employee."

[Marswolf]

In that case, there may be some requirement for an armed security guard certificate, perhaps?

How about a bouncer?

[saintsfanbrian]

I was just curious, I don't know anyone with a bar(unfortunately) but if I did I sure would be asking hime about this one.

[SkWaShDeM]

As far as I know, the wording in the statute applies directly to bouncers or armed security guards employed by the bar directly, or through a security company contracted by the bar to provide armed security. And to be employed as an armed guard in TN, IIRC anyway, you have to have the proper certifications and training.

[saintsfanbrian]

Gosh, the statute doesn't say anything about being a bouncer or an armed gaurd. It simply states that an agent of the owner of the premisis with repsonsibility for protecting persons or property. I don't see where it says they have to be "armed gaurds" or bouncers. And for that matter, if it is your buddy, they could say, yah, that's my bouncer.

[Cruel Hand Luke]

The statute is vague. A lot of them are. That leaves room for discretion on the part of the officer, DA, Judge, etc.

A friend who is local PD SWAT and works on the "Beer Board" -the folks who cite or shut down bars for violations - says that it really is not clear even to THEM. They read it to mean as long as the owner vouches for you as being his "agent" then you should be good to go. Just don't be stupid about it. Concealed means CONCEALED. BUT....it is just going to take one drunk dumbass shooting someone accidentally(or negligently!) to get this statute rewritten so that you DO have to have a security guard license to carry and maybe even to work UNARMED security.

As of right now ANYONE can work security for a bar. No certification, no real qualifications, no oversight of any kind. And I used to be a bouncer. I know how this works. But VERY few bouncers I've ever met are allowed to carry guns....at least officially... WAY too big a liability downside to it. Also too big a weapon retention nightmare if you have to go hands on with a group of rowdies in the middle of a bar full of people with a band playing so forth and so on. Like I said, I've got a little experience here......

Besides inside a club, gunplay would likely start a stampede and hurt even more folks. That is why concert security is almost never armed. I'm NOT talking about the Police that work big shows as an extra job, but the actual concert security staff. They gang tackle people, not shoot them. Bar bouncers typically use an impact weapon or bare hands. And they usually don't work alone. They have backup. When it is 5 or 6 on one they generally decide to let you escort them outside instead of taking their chances. But there's always an exception. But we still don't shoot them......we restrain them and eject them and call the cops if we need to.

[shaftbass]

It would be adviseable to have some proof that you are acting on his behalf... but I <3 ANAL.

[Mike.357]

It always amazes me when someone wants to figure away to get around the law and common sense.

Don't get me wrong Brian, I am not being down on you, if you are just making conversation that is another thing. But alcohol and firearms are not a good mix. The law means no guns in bars, you are not an employee of your buddies bar so leave the gun out of the mix. Don't try to find some angle around it.

Acting as your attorney I advise you to drink heavily, but non-armed.

Of course my advice it worth the paper it is written on, heh.

[saintsfanbrian]

Mike, I NEVER consume alcohol when I have a loaded firearm on me. I agree, alcohol and firearms do not mix. I was thinking more along the lines of if your friend happened to be the franchisee of say Outback Steakhouse. I am not really trying to "get around the law and common sense" it was a conversation starter since the wording on the statute is almost as vague as "I got it." You have no idea what I "got" and if you even wanted "it" to begin with.

I would love to see the law changed to allow carry in places where smoking is banned. Most of your "neighborhood bar and grills" will be smoke free coming in October. Personally, I hate when the law states that a person cannot do with their establishment what they want. I like the fact that more restaurants are going to be smoke free, but I don't think the city or state has a right to tell the business owner what they can do on their property as far as that is concerned. With it, I think it should be left up to the business owner to determine whether or not they want to allow guns in their establishment. I think the government has MUCH better things to waste its time on then whether I can responsibly carry a loaded firearm into Applebee's, have a steak dinner and leave with out consuming alcohol.

That is just my opinion though and shouldn't be taken as word of gospel.

[towerclimber37]

That is just my opinion though and shouldn't be taken as word of gospel.

no no...keep going, it sounds like common sense to me!!

No offense Mike, but allow me to tell you a story.

My Grandmother lived to be 104, when she was in her late 80's I asked her how she got to be so old.

she looked at me with a serious look and said "I mind my own business and make sure everyone else does the same."

I've taken that to heart and it's served me well.

[Mike.357]

I NEVER consume alcohol when I have a loaded firearm on me.

I am sorry if I inferred that you did, not my intention. My concern with alcohol and guns is that someone who is not the gun owner will be drunk and think it is funny to touch it or do something otherwise as stupid. I believe that is why the law is in place to keep guns out of on site consumption places. I really doubt anyone who takes the time to be a member here and post here regularly would do something like that. We are all the good guys,

Well most of us, heh

I would love to see the law changed to allow carry in places where smoking is banned.

I do not see the comparison, between smoking and drinking and guns.

I agree that business owners should have the right to decide about smoking in their building or on their property.

I think the government has MUCH better things to waste its time on then whether I can responsibly carry a loaded firearm into Applebee's, have a steak dinner and leave with out consuming alcohol.

I absolutley agree, the gov't ought to spend their time doing more important things. I also do not think places like an Applebee's should be considered as "bars" but I do not know how they could legally distinguish between a restaraunt that serves alcohol and a plain old bar.

[Marswolf]

Well, I've been in a number of places around the world drinking where I would have been a fool to have not had a loaded gun....

I'm sorry but this is getting too PC for me to not comment. Fact is there are states where you can drink and pack, and as far as I know there have not been huge numbers of bars where the blood has flowed over the counter because of it. It seems to largely be an imaginary problem, and the people who would make it a real problem will just ignore the law anyway.

But legal bar carry ain't gonna happen in Bible Belt Tennessee. If you west and middle Tennessee folks don't quit voting for Democrats, it ain't gonna happen in Tennessee restaurants either.

I've never actually witnessed a gunfight in a bar. I did walk into a bar in Raleigh back in the 70's that had a guy lying on the floor bleeding. He didn't get shot by another patron. Someone walked in off the street, probably perfectly sober, who had it in for him and shot him. I think that was illegal back then.

[molonlabetn]

I agree with Mars.

I don't have stats, but just going by the number of news stories I've seen over the years, far more people have died for want of a means of self-defense in a resturaunt than died because there was one present in the hands of a responsible person.

[Cruel Hand Luke]

You do not hear about drunken gunfights in bars in Pennsylvania. It is LEGAL to carry in bars there. You can even DRINK and carry there. But the people that legally carry are not the ones who start trouble.

In fact at the NTI (held in Harrisburg PA) I think EVERYONE in the bar in the hotel was armed. No one got shot. No one got into an altercation.Everyone kept 'em concealed (they all look similar-there is no reason for you to see mine or me to see yours) and everyone went about their business. The way it SHOULD BE.

Flat out, Jimmy Naifeh is why this keeps getting killed. Get rid of him and more pro gun stuff MIGHT see the light of day. As long as he controls the committee that it has to get through to get voted on.....forget about it. Problem is he keeps getting elected. No matter how many calls or emails I send I can't change that. Voters in his district will have to.

[Marswolf]

Flat out, Jimmy Naifeh is why this keeps getting killed. Get rid of him and more pro gun stuff MIGHT see the light of day. As long as he controls the committee that it has to get through to get voted on.....forget about it. Problem is he keeps getting elected. No matter how many calls or emails I send I can't change that. Voters in his district will have to.

Or elect enough new folks who won't vote for him as Speaker.

[saintsfanbrian]

Neifeh keeps helping to redraw his district so he gets elected.

[Marswolf]

Yeah, but if some of those Democrat seats become Republican seats, Naifeh doesn't end up as Speaker. I know Memphis is a lost cause, but it seems like some of those other House seats should be more competitive.