Subsonic 45-70 Load data

[Snaveba]

I'm looking for load data for sub-sonic 45-70 rounds.  I know sub-rounds are usually 400+gr, but can I load plinking subs with 300gr bullets (I have some).  I have read Trail Boss by Hodgdon is a good low velocity powder, but it doesn't seem available. 

I am also curious about 30-30 sub loads.

[A.J. Holst]

3 hours ago, Snaveba said:

I load plinking subs with 300gr bullets

Now that's a conversation starter...

[TripleGGG]

1600 is slowest load data I've seen for 300gr so be interesting to see if anyone has anything to get it Subsonic. 

[Alleycat72]

Trail boss if you can find it.

[Darrell]

The Lyman Cast Bullet reloading manual has a few loads in there. I'll have to pull it out a little later in the day, but there are some that are just sub-sonic with 400-425 bullets, I think.  

[Alleycat72]

4 hours ago, Snaveba said:

I'm looking for load data for sub-sonic 45-70 rounds.  I know sub-rounds are usually 400+gr, but can I load plinking subs with 300gr bullets (I have some).  I have read Trail Boss by Hodgdon is a good low velocity powder, but it doesn't seem available. 

I am also curious about 30-30 sub loads.

What barrel lingth on the 45-70?

You'll need to look at the twist on the 30-30. That will dictate the bullet lingth that will be stable in your gun. 

Hornady Subsonic 30-30 Winchester Ammo 175 Grain Hornady FTX Polymer https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1021878668?pid=649438

 

Edited Saturday at 07:08 PM by Alleycat72

[Grayfox54]

I recommend you stick to proven level 1 (Trapdoor) loads. They aren't that bad to shoot. 

Trying to make light loads in big cartridge cases can lead to problems you don't want. Namely erratic velocities and possibly  even detonation.  

The .45-70 was never intended to be a plinker. Don't try to make it one.  

[Snaveba]

I guess I need to pick up some 400+gr bullets. Anyone have some Trail Boss they want to let go?  It doesn’t seem to o be in stock anywhere. 

[RED333]

Here is some info you might like

https://www.reddit.com/r/LeverGuns/comments/15kndyi/subsonic_load_data_for_4570/?rdt=43342

https://forum.castbulletassoc.org/thread/1387-the-load-is-13-grains-of-red-dot/

Please do your home work. If powder place flat in the bottom of a case and there's a large amount of airspace above it, you will get thr flame front running to the front of the case, detonating the powder backwards. There is a term for this and i cant think of it. This is very detrimental to the life of the firearm and possibly your extremities.

 

[Alleycat72]

1 hour ago, RED333 said:

Here is some info you might like

https://www.reddit.com/r/LeverGuns/comments/15kndyi/subsonic_load_data_for_4570/?rdt=43342

https://forum.castbulletassoc.org/thread/1387-the-load-is-13-grains-of-red-dot/

Please do your home work. If powder place flat in the bottom of a case and there's a large amount of airspace above it, you will get thr flame front running to the front of the case, detonating the powder backwards. There is a term for this and i cant think of it. This is very detrimental to the life of the firearm and possibly your extremities.

 

Puff-Lon can fix some air space issues. Other things can also be used. Can't run a suppressor though. 

 

Puff-Lon Ballistic Filler - RifleShooter https://search.app/zV34ockfiXLsbkpp7

[Darrell]

I broke out my Lyman Cast Bullets reloading manual, and the closest I'm seeing to subsonic loads for 300 grain bullets is 29 grains of 5744 which yields a velocity of 1376 fps, about 250 fps above the supersonic threshold at sea level.  You can get subsonic with a few different powders if you go to 500 or 535 grain bullets.

The Lee reloading manual has a whole section on reduced loads. I've used the formula to build low-velocity, light bullet loads for my 30-06 with great success. I've not tried it with the 45-70, though now that you've piqued my interest I might give it a try.  I'm pretty sure that you can load light bullets for low velocity in your 30-30, as well. 

I still have four or five pounds of Trailboss, and didn't realize that it had been discontinued. I like the powder and it's a shame I won't be able to get more. 

*** Just checked the Hodgdon website, and they still list Trailboss there, but it's out of stock. A few other sites say that it will be back in production. Of course that doesn't help you now. ****

Edited Sunday at 02:06 PM by Darrell

[Grayfox54]

2 hours ago, RED333 said:

Please do your home work. If powder place flat in the bottom of a case and there's a large amount of airspace above it, you will get thr flame front running to the front of the case, detonating the powder backwards. There is a term for this and i cant think of it. This is very detrimental to the life of the firearm and possibly your extremities.

That is detonation that I mentioned earlier. Some years back Cowboy shooters were experimenting with powder puff loads to reduce recoil and increase speed. Guns started blowing up. Simply put: large cases and not enough powder results in an explosion rather than a burn. Lots of info on the internet about it if you just search. 

The .45-70 can be loaded to three different power levels depending on the guns used.  These range from mild to wild. Again, lots of info on the web is readily available. 

My Browning 1886 is capable of handling Level 2 loads. But I've found that my old azz is happy sticking to Level 1. 

[RED333]

2 minutes ago, Grayfox54 said:

My Browning 1886 is capable of handling Level 2 loads. But I've found that my old azz is happy sticking to Level 1. 

I hear you brother

 

Edited Sunday at 02:55 PM by RED333
Because I can

[Snaveba]

3 hours ago, Alleycat72 said:

Puff-Lon can fix some air space issues. Other things can also be used. Can't run a suppressor though. 

 

Puff-Lon Ballistic Filler - RifleShooter https://search.app/zV34ockfiXLsbkpp7

So no suppressor with any kind of filler? That kind of defeats the purpose 

[Alleycat72]

35 minutes ago, Snaveba said:

So no suppressor with any kind of filler? That kind of defeats the purpose 

I get it, but it depends on the purpose. If you just wanted less recoil in an old gun, it works. At the moment trail boss is $800-$900 on gunbroker.

[Alleycat72]

Reduced capacity cases will fix the problem also, but is cost prohibitive. 

[Snaveba]

1 hour ago, Alleycat72 said:

I get it, but it depends on the purpose. If you just wanted less recoil in an old gun, it works. At the moment trail boss is $800-$900 on gunbroker.

Yea, but no one is paying that.  Looks like it is actually going for about $90/lb

well, some was selling for $90/9oz (didn’t realize they were not 1lb bottles).   

now it’s about $200/9oz with tax and shipping (if someone will pay that)

 

Edited Sunday at 06:25 PM by Snaveba

[RED333]

So i am sitting on a gold mine? 

[TripleGGG]

1 minute ago, RED333 said:

So i am sitting on a gold mine? 

 

[Alleycat72]

It's nice at 11.8gr per 308.

[Darrell]

I found one recipe in the Lee manual for 30-30 subsonic loads.  Well, four different loads with one bullet and one powder.  Using 125g bullets you can load H335 from 18 - 22 grains to yield velocities ranging from 890 - 1100 fps. The manual has a warning that the 18 and 19 grain loads can be double-charged inside the case. Please check the manual yourself to be sure I haven't made a transcription error.

 

Wow! $800 for a 4 pound jug of Trailboss?  Are people really that desperate for dirty-burning, fluffy powder? 

*****  Note- I DID in fact make a transcription error. The low load was 18 grains, not 10. ****

Edited Monday at 11:54 AM by Darrell
Made an error on grains of powder for subsonic

[Alleycat72]

11 minutes ago, Darrell said:

I found one recipe in the Lee manual for 30-30 subsonic loads.  Well, four different loads with one bullet and one powder.  Using 125g bullets you can load H335 from 10 - 22 grains to yield velocities ranging from 890 - 1100 fps. The manual has a warning that the 10 and 11 grain loads can be double-charged inside the case. Please check the manual yourself to be sure I haven't made a transcription error.

 

Wow! $800 for a 4 pound jug of Trailboss?  Are people really that desperate for dirty-burning, fluffy powder? 

Try finding Vihtavuori tin star.