Illegal hunting

[Mamabearhands]

What do you do here if the property has no trespassing signs (hunting by written permission only) and consent was not given. We have been threatened, "You need to move. We been doing this for 30 years." The LEO and TWRA are involved and darnit... somehow they leave just before LEO arrival. Got his plates and he's Fire Department. I see exactly why LEO involvement has been a bust. I have been combing many forums on this topic over the past year, Deer didn't return last year. Not a sighting on any cameras this year. 

This time they claimed they were retrieving their dogs and proceeded to hunt for half an hour and abruptly packed up as soon as LEO call went in from TWRA. Their dogs have my LGDs fit to be tied. I cannot sleep for weeks. I came out here to not see and hear high speed car chases and gunshots all night long. But here we are on 500 acres and still no peace. My husband is about done with restraining me as I don't function well without sleep. They visit sometimes weekly. I'm ready to start trapping coyote, I'd hate to have to deal with pulling coon hounds outta my traps, but I am exhausting my ability to deal with my husband's tactics. Peace at all costs, but I don't mind getting hogs either.

Edited December 27, 2024 by Mamabearhands
Repeat question removed and typo fix

[FUJIMO]

Welcome to TGO.

Have you been able to capture them on any of the cameras you mentioned ? If it were me I would obtain solid evidence of them trespassing then seek out a higher authority to plead my case. This may require you to spend more on cameras but well worth it if it's causing you this much grief. That's a lot of acreage to keep watch over, especially in the area you show to be in. Good luck and happy new year !

[Alleycat72]

Get pictures. Send them to everyone in TWRA, local law enforcement, and Fire department. Make sure his captain gets it. Post it on the fire departments facebook page.  Any Facebook page for the local area. Have their truck towed if it's on your property. This is all assuming you have told them not to hunt your property. Cell cameras will be invaluable for this. 

[Darrell]

Speak to an attorney. You know who this tresspasser is, a simple letter from an attorney might do the trick. I agree with what Alleycat wrote, too. Posting a picture on the FD's FB page will get the attention of the chief and the commissioners.

[pop pop]

My daughter has had the same problem with hunters on her 89 acers. She has not given anyone permission. She has paid trail rides and has trails all throughout the wooded sections of her farm. In fact close to 4 miles of trails. She has seen spent shotgun ammo hulls all over her trails, but it seems to have stopped this year.

The neighbors shooting once bother her horses, but they have shot so much, unless they are close by, the horses have gotten somewhat accustomed to the noise. 

Trespassing is a problem. She only has no trespassing signs up at her entrance gate. 

Edited December 27, 2024 by pop pop

[Mamabearhands]

1 hour ago, Alleycat72 said:

Get pictures. Send them to everyone in TWRA, local law enforcement, and Fire department. Make sure his captain gets it. Post it on the fire departments facebook page.  Any Facebook page for the local area. Have their truck towed if it's on your property. This is all assuming you have told them not to hunt your property. Cell cameras will be invaluable for this. 

Thank you for the tips... I have thought of posting publicly in local groups as well as his FD page. This guy knows exactly how this goes, LEO said they have to be present for actual trespassing and he's lickety split by then. He also parks in others' access drives or in the ditch of a holler. Non of the neighbors have given permission for hunting either.

The last time these hunters were out, two weeks ago, they parked on the road and hopped the fence back  to the road when the call was dispatched to LEO and they packed up shortly before their arrival. Have I been given incorrect info and all I need is photographic evidence for a case? I was told they have to be caught in the act, on the property, not in the ditch or road. They had been told not to hunt on the property over 3 years ago, they started getting aggressive this year and shining lights in the trees near the house and seemingly has gotten worse since we have had to chain our dogs at night and we have not met their trespassing with aggression. 

[Alleycat72]

28 minutes ago, Mamabearhands said:

Thank you for the tips... I have thought of posting publicly in local groups as well as his FD page. This guy knows exactly how this goes, LEO said they have to be present for actual trespassing and he's lickety split by then. He also parks in others' access drives or in the ditch of a holler. Non of the neighbors have given permission for hunting either.

The last time these hunters were out, two weeks ago, they parked on the road and hopped the fence back  to the road when the call was dispatched to LEO and they packed up shortly before their arrival. Have I been given incorrect info and all I need is photographic evidence for a case? I was told they have to be caught in the act, on the property, not in the ditch or road. They had been told not to hunt on the property over 3 years ago, they started getting aggressive this year and shining lights in the trees near the house and seemingly has gotten worse since we have had to chain our dogs at night and we have not met their trespassing with aggression. 

Some cell cameras have gps location tracking. A picture will be sent to you phone just after the picture is taken. While the police may not arrest them, they will be under a bunch of pressure from everyone that pays their salary to stop. If they see the camera, they will destroy or take it. If they take the camera, you're golden. Use an air tag in each one. You'll want some cameras brushed in though. If they take a camera that normally doesn't have GPS, but dose have an air tag, they have committed crime that can be documented. Hopefully they take it home with them. If you use one for bate, make sure it's an older one without cellular service. 

The TWRA will also set cameras out for you if you give consent. If the local officer is not helping, call his LT. If that doesn't work call Nashville...every day...7 days a week. 

[Chucktshoes]

44 minutes ago, Alleycat72 said:

 

The TWRA will also set cameras out for you if you give consent. If the local officer is not helping, call his LT. If that doesn't work call Nashville...every day...7 days a week. 

You know, this makes me wonder. The OP has stated that they have gotten more aggressive this last year. I wonder if they have been feeling emboldened by the decision that we all were happy about, and I still am, regarding the state constitutions private property protections, and the prohibition against utilizing open fields doctrine. I imagine that the TWRA would leap at the chance to place cameras with landowner consent to catch folks hunting illegally.

 

if the ne’er do wells were to abscond with the TWRA’s cameras, I have to imagine that they would bring the hammer down with great vengeance and furious anger.

Edited December 27, 2024 by Chucktshoes

[Grayfox54]

Do you have a positive ID on the culprit? Is he in fact a fireman? If so, contact his Chief and the Mayor of his town/county. Most cities/counties have an ethics clause in their employment rules that allows for termination for people who's actions  bring dishonor to their department. He may think twice if his job is on the line. 

[Alleycat72]

The town the OP has in her profile has about 1300 people in it. This is also part of the problem. The guys probably have been coon hunting like this for 30 years. I think that's why involving people outside of the local area is a good idea. If they a buddies with the local TWRA officer, he will not want to lose his job. There are federal fish and game officers. That town is close to KY. 

[Mamabearhands]

3 hours ago, Chucktshoes said:

You know, this makes me wonder. The OP has stated that they have gotten more aggressive this last year. I wonder if they have been feeling emboldened by the decision that we all were happy about, and I still am, regarding the state constitutions private property protections, and the prohibition against utilizing open fields doctrine. I imagine that the TWRA would leap at the chance to place cameras with landowner consent to catch folks hunting illegally.

 

if the ne’er do wells were to abscond with the TWRA’s cameras, I have to imagine that they would bring the hammer down with great vengeance and furious anger.

 Thank you, I will be bringing this up with TWRA when we receive a call back. I'm now working with Knoxville TWRA now since we have after hours happy hour happening on the regular. I'm too old and have too many health issues to be missing sleep like this, I start my day at 4am. All pastures are fenced and currently have cattle rotated. We have great neighbors that ask to hunt and don't bring a pack of baying hounds with them. I have to follow up to see if they actually came out. No neighbors on our street have consented, nor do they approve of these activities. I've been gathering status quo on this to make sure I'm not the one with the wrong thinking. None have wanted to speak up out of fear of upsetting these guys. 

[Alleycat72]

2 minutes ago, Mamabearhands said:

 Thank you, I will be bringing this up with TWRA when we receive a call back. I'm now working with Knoxville TWRA now since we have after hours happy hour happening on the regular. I'm too old and have too many health issues to be missing sleep like this, I start my day at 4am. All pastures are fenced and currently have cattle rotated. We have great neighbors that ask to hunt and don't bring a pack of baying hounds with them. I have to follow up to see if they actually came out. No neighbors on our street have consented, nor do they approve of these activities. I've been gathering status quo on this to make sure I'm not the one with the wrong thinking. None have wanted to speak up out of fear of upsetting these guys. 

From what you have posted, the only crime the have actually commented is trespassing. It may be more. If they have a hunting license and hunting in season then they are only trespassing in the eyes of the law. Their punishment will increase if they do it multiple times. If you have proof....like photos, you can sue them. Getting the neighbors on board would be a huge help. I would also get a personal video device so any and all interactions are recorded. Hopefully with a little pressure, they will decide it's not worth the trouble. 

 

[Alleycat72]

Correction. Hunting without permission is a separate charge. 

[gary_boom]

I think you are getting ready to see how corrupt the law enforcement and judicial system is in East Tennessee. Just my opinion.

[peejman]

21 hours ago, Alleycat72 said:

The town the OP has in her profile has about 1300 people in it. This is also part of the problem. The guys probably have been coon hunting like this for 30 years. I think that's why involving people outside of the local area is a good idea. If they a buddies with the local TWRA officer, he will not want to lose his job. There are federal fish and game officers. That town is close to KY. 

Exactly. I used to live near there and rode my motorcycle all over the place around there.  This area is as country as it gets.   Everyone knows everyone else and has for generations. The OP is the outsider and will always be viewed as such.  There's a good reason why they always leave just in time. Theres also a good reason why rural appalachia has the reputation that it does. If they've been doing it for 30 years, their family has been doing it for 130 years. 

[Mamabearhands]

23 hours ago, Chucktshoes said:

You know, this makes me wonder. The OP has stated that they have gotten more aggressive this last year. I wonder if they have been feeling emboldened by the decision that we all were happy about, and I still am, regarding the state constitutions private property protections, and the prohibition against utilizing open fields doctrine. I imagine that the TWRA would leap at the chance to place cameras with landowner consent to catch folks hunting illegally.

 

if the ne’er do wells were to abscond with the TWRA’s cameras, I have to imagine that they would bring the hammer down with great vengeance and furious anger.

This seems to be my only chance for a civil resolution. The whole town operates as these fire and leo do. I'm not giving up my peace for 6 months every other weekend, I'd open a hunting or campground if I wanted to party and charge the guy admission. I also have coon and coyote hunters that we employ occasionally. The job is taken.

[Mamabearhands]

9 hours ago, gary_boom said:

I think you are getting ready to see how corrupt the law enforcement and judicial system is in East Tennessee. Just my opinion.

Exactly why I came to this group. Hunting groups all say the same thing LEO says. I saw the warning signs before I moved here. We have friends born in this town and family scattered over E TN.

 

Your opinion is logical, all things considered. Most people don't do too much thinking.

[Mamabearhands]

1 hour ago, peejman said:

Exactly. I used to live near there and rode my motorcycle all over the place around there.  This area is as country as it gets.   Everyone knows everyone else and has for generations. The OP is the outsider and will always be viewed as such.  There's a good reason why they always leave just in time. Theres also a good reason why rural appalachia has the reputation that it does. If they've been doing it for 30 years, their family has been doing it for 130 years. 

Agreed. That is a cool story though. Most people settling here aren't up for taking #### either. The demographics are changing and the obituaries tell the tale of how seriously land stewardship conveniences have taken hold of generations. Its sad friends and families are selling their land to outsiders instead of helping the next generation advance. One family held this land after they evacuated the indians. Lotta blood on these soils. This isn't our first property or our last and all the houses and lots being sold off are filling with outsiders. Won't be long before turning coon hounds out on others' properties will be a bygone sport. 

[Mamabearhands]

23 hours ago, Grayfox54 said:

Do you have a positive ID on the culprit? Is he in fact a fireman? If so, contact his Chief and the Mayor of his town/county. Most cities/counties have an ethics clause in their employment rules that allows for termination for people who's actions  bring dishonor to their department. He may think twice if his job is on the line. 

I do have positive ID. I know him. He works at the co-op. I was saving this card for photos collected. I know now I have to get them on camera and work with Knoxville authorities because I have not come across a straight arrow yet. I saw the statistics before moving here. We have friends with multigenerational lineage here who gave us the scoop. They know him, and his daddy and all his friends. We can play this game too.

[papa61]

Wow, you are more tolerant than I. Which knowing history is a very good thing I would have to believe. Sad to re-enforce that you will always be an outsider but it's true. I would have to believe that if they are hunting your property that often it is harassment. Especially being close to your house. I believe you will have to go to the state level to get any satisfaction. Sorry for your trouble and best of luck.

Adding this and I don't know if it would work. Offer to trade time allowing them to coon hunt specific dates in exchange for taking care of your coyotes and varmints. 

Edited December 29, 2024 by papa61

[Alleycat72]

21 minutes ago, papa61 said:

Wow, you are more tolerant than I. Which knowing history is a very good thing I would have to believe. Sad to re-enforce that you will always be an outsider but it's true. I would have to believe that if they are hunting your property that often it is harassment. Especially being close to your house. I believe you will have to go to the state level to get any satisfaction. Sorry for your trouble and best of luck.

Adding this and I don't know if it would work. Offer to trade time allowing them to coon hunt specific dates in exchange for taking care of your coyotes and varmints. 

If they had told my Wife we need to move, that wouldn't be an option. A thinly veiled threat is still a threat. I've given my opinion of how to legally fix the situation. I wouldn't have handled it like that after the threat, but I would have removed their ability to hunt my land.

[papa61]

2 minutes ago, Alleycat72 said:

If they had told my Wife we need to move, that wouldn't be an option. A thinly veiled threat is still a threat. I've given my opinion of how to legally fix the situation. I wouldn't have handled it like that after the threat, but I would have removed their ability to hunt my land.

Threatening my wife would get one evicted from my AO to be sure.to say I'd go to war for her is an understatement. I do understand the dynamic of the area though. I personally wouldn't offer any compromise, just a suggestion for a more tolerant person. At this point, lots of concertina wire would crisscross my property, it could easily be pulled back for the livestock. And I am not advocating that anyone do what I would as I'm intolerant and unforgiving.

[Alleycat72]

11 minutes ago, papa61 said:

Threatening my wife would get one evicted from my AO to be sure.to say I'd go to war for her is an understatement. I do understand the dynamic of the area though. I personally wouldn't offer any compromise, just a suggestion for a more tolerant person. At this point, lots of concertina wire would crisscross my property, it could easily be pulled back for the livestock. And I am not advocating that anyone do what I would as I'm intolerant and unforgiving.

There are much better people there than me. Not judging. 

[peejman]

10 hours ago, Mamabearhands said:

Agreed. That is a cool story though. Most people settling here aren't up for taking #### either. The demographics are changing and the obituaries tell the tale of how seriously land stewardship conveniences have taken hold of generations. Its sad friends and families are selling their land to outsiders instead of helping the next generation advance. One family held this land after they evacuated the indians. Lotta blood on these soils. This isn't our first property or our last and all the houses and lots being sold off are filling with outsiders. Won't be long before turning coon hounds out on others' properties will be a bygone sport. 

I don't mean to sound flippant. You're in a crappy situation. I think state or federal level help will be required, the locals are far too entrenched.  Even TWRA can be ... difficult. I used to work with a guy who's son was a game warden. If half the stories he told were accurate, it'll be an uphill battle. 

The problem I see is racoon hunting without permission may not be thought of as a big deal at the higher level.  Racoons aren't exactly endangered. I think you'll need to find something more to get their attention. 

[monkeylizard]

In addition to the no trespassing signs at the gate(s), make sure they mention that purple paint indicates "no tresspassing" and then paint a purple blaze on your trees/fence posts. That serves as a legal posting for "no trespassing" here in TN. Paragraph C.2 has the details: https://law.justia.com/codes/tennessee/title-39/chapter-14/part-4/section-39-14-405/

You can keep trying TWRA/State/LEO/whatever for criminal charges but that's (1) unlikely to happen and (2) if it does bear fruit will likely be nothing more than a simple fine and won't stop the problem. Then you're back to pleading with the same folks to issue a second fine and that may take just as long for them to do anything about it as it has the first time.

I suggest you contact an attorney with a reputation for being aggressive. You want someone who's kind of a jerk, not a nice guy . . .someone who loves a fight. You want a pit bull attorney. They can help you with what you need for building a civil case. The above advice about cell-based trail cams, very well hidden cams monitoring "bait" cams for them to take/destroy, etc. is very good. All of that evidence will help with your civil case for harassment, trespassing, destruction of property, and whatever else the attorney can think of.

As mentioned above, a letter from that attorney might do the trick. The perps will need to decide if hunting on your land is worth the legal expense they'll have when you let your attack-lawyer off the chain.

Edited December 29, 2024 by monkeylizard