Don't talk to the police?

[Guest m4coyote]

First and foremost, this is not an attempt to offend any LEO's. This video may have been linked here before, but I have not been able to find it. It does make you wonder about your actions after an encounter with a BG, and you are the only one left standing.

What are the opinions of the LEO's on this board?

[GLOCKMEISTER]

an error occurred... please try again later.

[titan14]

an error occurred... please try again later.

Ditto

[Fallguy]

I believe this has been posted before and debated at great length....

[GLOCKMEISTER]

it has

[9teeneleven]

You can go to youtube and view it.

[bubbiesdad]

First and foremost, this is not an attempt to offend any LEO's. This video may have been linked here before, but I have not been able to find it. It does make you wonder about your actions after an encounter with a BG, and you are the only one left standing.

What are the opinions of the LEO's on this board?

In the words of one of the instructors at our local shop, who happens to be a LEO, "DON"T TALK TO THE POLICE". Not until you have talked with an attorney.

[Guest Ggun]

In the words of one of the instructors at our local shop, who happens to be a LEO, "DON"T TALK TO THE POLICE". Not until you have talked with an attorney.

Good way to get cited/arrested in every conceivable encounter with LEO. There are times to keep your mouth shut and times to not. It's situational.

[Oh Shoot]

If the second worst think ever happens, I have my terse statement all ready:

"Mike .357 shot him, and he wants an attorney present for his statement."

- OS

[war4peace]

If the second worst think ever happens, I have my terse statement all ready:

"Mike .357 shot him, and he wants an attorney present for his statement."

- OS

[saintsfanbrian]

Yup, I will be happy to answer your questions after I have been checked out at the hospital and have my attorney present.

Thank you.

[Punisher84]

Yup, I will be happy to answer your questions after I have been checked out at the hospital and have my attorney present.

Thank you.

I am very pro-LEO and that is what every LEO I know has told me to say. It's not hindering the investigation, it's being in the right state of mind to make your statement.

[Mike.357]

thanks for looking out for me OhShoot, LOL

[DaveTN]

It has been debated at great length here.

The bottom line is that there is no pat answer.

If you have just committed a homicide (justified or not) the idea that you are going to happily tip toe off to the hospital and play games with the investigators is ridiculous.

Have a plan. If your plan involves not talking with the investigators until you talk with an attorney; that is fine. But part of your plan better be that you can get to talk to an attorney at times other than business hours. People are going to be making decisions about what happens to you based on the evidence and your statement or the statements of others. If you refuse to talk they will make those decisions without your statement.

A refusal to make a statement can take a tremendous financial toll on you and your family. If you carry a gun you should always have immediate access to an attorney.

It’s just like I say about those that say always refuse a request to search…. For God sakes man have a plan. But talk it over with an attorney and have one that makes sense to you. Because you are the one that is ultimately going to be held responsible for legal decisions that are made. Don’t make those decisions based on the opinions of a bunch of people that have never been in those situations and aren’t aware of the possible repercussions.

And yes that video has been posted here before. There is also the one where the attorney tells the kids to get out of the car and lock the doors on a traffic stop. If you really want a good laugh watch that one.

[Fadex]

Weird this came up...I asked my attorney the same question Tuesday. He said,"keep your mouth shut till I ask you to say something". I thought that was pretty clear advice.

He also said to demand a search warrant if they want to search your car. Not sure about that one, I don't have anything to hide in there...but I don't want to have to put everything back by myself on the side of a highway either.

[Fallguy]

Weird this came up...I asked my attorney the same question Tuesday. He said,"keep your mouth shut till I ask you to say something". I thought that was pretty clear advice.

He also said to demand a search warrant if they want to search your car. Not sure about that one, I don't have anything to hide in there...but I don't want to have to put everything back by myself on the side of a highway either.

He may have mentioned the search warrant because of the recent SCOTUS ruling.

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/newsworthy-reports/20528-supreme-court-limits-warrantless-vehicle-searches.html

[Guest marine77]

Weird this came up...I asked my attorney the same question Tuesday. He said,"keep your mouth shut till I ask you to say something". I thought that was pretty clear advice.

He also said to demand a search warrant if they want to search your car. Not sure about that one, I don't have anything to hide in there...but I don't want to have to put everything back by myself on the side of a highway either.

If a cop has to ask me to search my vehicle, "Since you asked to search,

you have no probable cause, so no, you may not search. Am i under

arrest? If there is nothing else I'll be going."

[DaveTN]

If a cop has to ask me to search my vehicle, "Since you asked to search,

you have no probable cause,

That just isn’t true.

I almost always asked for permission to search and I never ask for permission to search a vehicle that I didn’t already have probable cause to search.

To me it was just conversation as I was deciding how things were going to go. Cops have discretion based on how things go.

[Fallguy]

It has been debated at great length here.

The bottom line is that there is no pat answer.

If you have just committed a homicide (justified or not) the idea that you are going to happily tip toe off to the hospital and play games with the investigators is ridiculous.

Have a plan. If your plan involves not talking with the investigators until you talk with an attorney; that is fine. But part of your plan better be that you can get to talk to an attorney at times other than business hours. People are going to be making decisions about what happens to you based on the evidence and your statement or the statements of others. If you refuse to talk they will make those decisions without your statement.

A refusal to make a statement can take a tremendous financial toll on you and your family. If you carry a gun you should always have immediate access to an attorney.

It’s just like I say about those that say always refuse a request to search…. For God sakes man have a plan. But talk it over with an attorney and have one that makes sense to you. Because you are the one that is ultimately going to be held responsible for legal decisions that are made. Don’t make those decisions based on the opinions of a bunch of people that have never been in those situations and aren’t aware of the possible repercussions.

And yes that video has been posted here before. There is also the one where the attorney tells the kids to get out of the car and lock the doors on a traffic stop. If you really want a good laugh watch that one.

How LE handles a self-defense shooting could change if HB1795/SB1609 passes.

It would amend the Self-Defense law (39-11-611) to say in part...

(d) A law enforcement agency shall use standardized procedures for investigating the use of force which may constitute a circumstance of justifiable use of force under this section or § 39-11-612.

(1) The standardized procedures for investigating non-law enforcement use of force circumstances under this subsection (d) shall be designed to result in investigations that are of a quality that meet or exceed investigatory standards used in law enforcement use of force investigations.

(2) A law enforcement agency may not arrest a person for using force which may be justifiable under this section unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force used was unlawful based upon the factors set forth in this section.

(3) A court may award reasonable attorney fees, court costs and all expenses incurred by a person in defense of any criminal action brought against such person based upon the person's use of force against the arresting law enforcement agency if the court determines that the defendant was justified in using such force pursuant to §§ 39-11-611—39-11-614 or § 29-34-201 and that the law enforcement investigatory requirements of this subsection (d) have not been met.

Basically it seems to say a LE investigation of a non-LEO shooting should be of the quality as a LEO shooting. That LE can't arrest a person unless it has PC after such investigation. Also if such arrest is made and you can prove that requirements of the subsection weren't met, the court may award a judgment to cover the cost of defending yourself in the criminal trial. (Wonder why it's not shall like in civil suits?)

However I will grant that a basic statement may help LE to determine it as self-defense.

But, since this bill could be perceived to hamper LE not sure what chance it really has of passing.

[Guest shadow12]

What I tell peope is, yes you can talk to the police. But don't just bump your gums. Give a brief concise statement about what happened, then ask for an attorney and a trip to the hospital. If you say nothing, then we have to use wits and maybe the bad guys statement to figure out what happened. Then you may get a screwing. Wits are really awful, they see half of what happens, and it may be the wrong part to help you out.

[Guest Ggun]

What I tell peope is, yes you can talk to the police. But don't just bump your gums. Give a brief concise statement about what happened, then ask for an attorney and a trip to the hospital. If you say nothing, then we have to use wits and maybe the bad guys statement to figure out what happened. Then you may get a screwing. Wits are really awful, they see half of what happens, and it may be the wrong part to help you out.

I'm a little confused why a trip to the hospital is standard advice?

[Guest canynracer]

You are basically having/had a heart attack.. (in a nutshell)

Adrenaline dump

Adrenaline Response

Upon being stimulated by fear or anger, the Adrenal medulla may automatically produce the hormone epinephrine (aka adrenaline) directly into the blood stream. This can have various effects on various bodily systems, including:

• Increased heart rate and blood pressure. It is average for a person's pulse to raise to between 200 and 300 beats per minute (bpm). Increased heart rate (above 250 bpm) can cause fainting, and the body may constrict itself into a fetal position in preparation for a coma.
  
• Dilation of the bronchial passages, permitting higher absorption of oxygen.
  
• Dilated pupils to allow more light to enter, and visual exclusion--tunnel vision--occurs, allowing greater focus but resulting in the loss of peripheral vision.
  
• Release of glucose into the bloodstream, generating extra energy by raising the blood sugar level.
  

It is common for an individual to experience auditory exclusion or enhancement. It is also common for individuals to experience an increased pain tolerance, loss of color vision, short term memory loss, decreased fine motor skills, decreased communication skills, decreased coordination.

Psychological Response

The most common experience during tachypsychia is the feeling that time has either increased or slowed down, brought on by the increased brain activity cause by epinephrine, or the severe decrease in brain activity caused by the "catecholamine washout" occurring after the event.

It is common for an individual experiencing tachypsychia to have serious misinterpretations of their surrounding during the events, through a combination of their altered perception of time, as well as transient partial color blindness and tunnel vision. After the irregularly high levels of adrenaline consumed during sympathetic nervous system activation, an individual may display signs and symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder, and it is common for the person to display extreme emotional lability and fatigue, regardless of their actual physical exertion.

It is possible to manage the "adrenaline dump" still occurring after the event, and it is common for soldiers and martial artists to use tachypsychia in order to increase their performance during stressful situations.

Edited May 4, 2009 by canynracer

[Guest Ggun]

...so maybe the investigators decide that the shooter's claim of a heart attack and subsequent adrenaline rush caused him/her to "have serious misinterpretations of their surrounding during the events"

[mousegunner]

Whatever you do, at least be polite. But don't gush.

[Guest slothful1]

That just isn’t true.

I almost always asked for permission to search and I never ask for permission to search a vehicle that I didn’t already have probable cause to search.

To me it was just conversation as I was deciding how things were going to go. Cops have discretion based on how things go.

Which is fine to keep in mind, if you're a drug dealer. For those of us that aren't carrying contraband or otherwise breaking the law and consequently don't need your magnanimous "discretion", the point stands.