Why not more open carry?

[BHunted]

7 minutes ago, itw69fxst said:

I keep my lil fella tucked in and hidden. It is small, and people like to point and laugh when they see it. 

Sounds personal...

[deerslayer]

1 hour ago, Spots said:

So something I have learned working in a manufacturing environment that relates to most aspects of life.

 

Perception is reality. What people perceive in a 1-2 second look/interaction will shape their thoughts and their response to those thoughts. 3 different scenarios to consider.

 

Scenario 1. Clean cut professional looking adult wearing business casual styled clothing with a tucked in shirt is opening carrying a firearm in a nice leather holster. 

Scenario 2. Unkempt looking adult in old, baggy, dirty or otherwise sloppy jeans is opening carrying a firearm in a cheap nylon holster thats floppy or leaning out and unsercure, with their t shirt obviously tucked behind it to display the gun. 

 

Scenario 3. Male in hip hop styled clothing is carrying an unholstered firearm in his pocket with the grip openly out and on display. 

 

I have seen all 3 of these in public local and recently. There is a right and a wrong way to do things. I'm not saying I'm for or against open carry as a typical manner to do things. As a right I support it 100%. But if you open carry you are guaranteed to receive a better response 98% of the time if you are well dressed, wearing a well fitted holster and belt and acting in a polite and respectful manner. 

 

 

I used to know a fellow who open carried scenario 1 style.  He said people assumed he was a police officer, and talked like this was a good thing.  I completely disagreed because A. I don’t want people to think I am a cop or trying to impersonate one and B. Fooling people into thinking you are a cop and not Joe Citizen does not advance 2A rights or win over people.  I thought his mentality was badly flawed.  

[papa61]

6 hours ago, deerslayer said:

I used to know a fellow who open carried scenario 1 style.  He said people assumed he was a police officer, and talked like this was a good thing.  I completely disagreed because A. I don’t want people to think I am a cop or trying to impersonate one and B. Fooling people into thinking you are a cop and not Joe Citizen does not advance 2A rights or win over people.  I thought his mentality was badly flawed.  

point A. I agree
point B. I agree

His mentality isn't flawed, the flaw is those who believe only LEO can/should be armed. Assuming he isn't trying to look like LEO.

Consider the vids of people cleaning up homeless person for a job interview. We tend to judge based on appearance but once an unstable bum is cleaned up and put in nice suit you have an unstable bum that looks nice in a suit. I notice people who dress like thugs, they most likely aren't but they appear as a thug so what am I supposed to think? SO the question we have to answer is how do we want to present ourselves which is why I have chosen not to OC even though most likely no one in my area would even notice. There's always a Karen waiting somewhere.

[deerslayer]

28 minutes ago, papa61 said:

His mentality isn't flawed, the flaw is those who believe only LEO can/should be armed. Assuming he isn't trying to look like LEO.

Right, but how do you convince people that regular folks OCing is normal when you dress like a homicide detective and assume that strangers believe that’s what you are?  What good does that do?

[Spots]

Just now, deerslayer said:

Right, but how do you convince people that regular folks OCing is normal when you dress like a homicide detective and assume that strangers believe that’s what you are?  What good does that do?

I don't know that there is an answer to that. I was more just demonstrating the difference that appearance, attitude and mannerisms can make if you want to open carry. I have open carried from time to time. Usually it's a nice revolver in a well tooled holster with a tucked in dress shirt. It's not totally open as it's mostly accompanied by a sport coat. If people assume I'm LEO than that's on them. I don't generally look the part with a full beard and several tattoos, as well as a revolver instead of a service pistol but I don't go out of my way to convince them one way or the other. Most of my open carry is at my church where the people are very pro 2A and someone comes in with bad intentions then open vs concealed will probably matter very little. 

 

That said my default carry method is appendix IWB with an untucked work shirt, and it works well enough to make a Commander length 2011 disappear. If I'm further in town than the hopping little burg of Oliver springs I'm probably concealed. 

[papa61]

3 hours ago, deerslayer said:

Right, but how do you convince people that regular folks OCing is normal when you dress like a homicide detective and assume that strangers believe that’s what you are?  What good does that do?

If everyone did it would become normal. Nothing will convince the anti's ever, that's how we got here. So it doesn't do a LOT of good but it does desensitize people to an extent.

How do you convince people that an airplane doesn't explode when a handgun is fired from inside? I don't know how homicide detectives dress. The ones in TV dramas don't always mesh with the guys I see on the news. Hollyweird made us all believe these things, I'd bet a lot of people still believe all cars explode in crashes. It's all perspective. I remember being surprised at people walking around the town square in Scottsville KY with hog legs on their hips. Things have changed since then. The media has had decades to indoctrinate the populace. I do not believe we can make a difference with open carry. JMHO.

[chances R]

another reason not to OC

 

[45guy]

4 hours ago, chances R said:

another reason not to OC

 

Sorry not buying it. More likely the robber would have not tried to rob the place if he had seen someone armed. 

[chances R]

8 hours ago, 45guy said:

Sorry not buying it. More likely the robber would have not tried to rob the place if he had seen someone armed. 

Or, possibly you lose Your gun at gunpoint and the robbery continues.  Possibly he shoots one or more people in the process just to prove a point.  As explained in the video, a concealed carrier had a fighting chance.

[Jpoc700]

2 hours ago, chances R said:

Or, possibly you lose Your gun at gunpoint and the robbery continues.  Possibly he shoots one or more people in the process just to prove a point.  As explained in the video, a concealed carrier had a fighting chance.

Wow opinions abound.  But like butts they all stink, including mine. Most criminals are cowards and leave if they detect a threat.  Open or concealed your chance to fight back doesn't change. As for the argument might get others killed well if someone is willing to kill then either carry method doesn't change that.  The video is someone's opinion just because you agree with it doesn't make it so.  Train use proper equipment and keep your head on a swivel, how you carry is your choice and no one else's.  This isn't a debate it's opinions and everyone has their own.  If you want to prove a point come with facts, fortunately or unfortunately their are none, just opinions.  

[BigK]

I attended a security class this past weekend for church. The instructor is a former TBI agent/supervisor with a ridiculous list of credentials. When it's my turn he hands me a paddle holster with a IR laser Glock 17 in it and says "we're using a paddle holster for training, but in real life, you'd never want to open carry for obvious reasons".

I tend to agree about OC, but I did find it interesting that he thought that was such a universally true statement that it went without saying. 

Edited Friday at 10:20 PM by BigK
typo

[45guy]

8 hours ago, chances R said:

Or, possibly you lose Your gun at gunpoint and the robbery continues.  Possibly he shoots one or more people in the process just to prove a point.  As explained in the video, a concealed carrier had a fighting chance.

As stated before there are plenty of reasons not to open carry but being the "first one shot" is not one of them. It does not happen. 

[Elmo Fudpucker]

I'm in the concealed carry camp. If someone wants to open carry, have at it. I don't want the bad guy knowing I'm armed, and I just feel like open carrying presents too much of an opportunity for the bad guy to want to strike before I get the chance. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[papa61]

I wonder if the same trainers that tell us to be alert, that criminals do not want hard targets, are the ones who preach against OC because you would be targeted? The only time I have ever heard of criminals attempting to rob an known armed person(s) was Bullseye Gun in Murfreesboro. Staff is usually concealed but they are known to be armed.

[45guy]

11 minutes ago, papa61 said:

I wonder if the same trainers that tell us to be alert, that criminals do not want hard targets, are the ones who preach against OC because you would be targeted? The only time I have ever heard of criminals attempting to rob an known armed person(s) was Bullseye Gun in Murfreesboro. Staff is usually concealed but they are known to be armed.

Seems someone that is OC would be the definition of a hard target. Unless you plan on killing everyone anyway.