Why not more open carry?

[papa61]

I told my wife that on the day open carry became legal I was going to put my 357 on my belt for everyone to see. I didn't, no one single reason, I just didn't. It's good to know that I can should I wish to. My biggest reason for approving open carry is not having to worry about flashing since I no longer carry IWB. Open carry is quicker if the correct holster is employed. Open carry will desensitize an overly alarmed populace. If everyone who carries were to carry open it wouldn't be an issue. People would see that there are plenty of people who actually go armed every day and understand we are not abnormal. 
For drawing attention to oneself, I haven't seen it to be an issue. I have seen (men primarily) people open carry both here in Shelbyville and in Murfreesboro and most people don't even notice. If you choose a good holster and pistol that doesn't stand out it would be the same as wearing two different shoes. Most people are so self absorbed they will never see anything.

Now, I prefer stainless or hard chrome. I'm currently working on being comfortable with polymer framed black pistol other than my ever present P32 so things may change, but for now, open carry for me would draw some eyes. And I will most likely not open carry on a regular basis. I have also moved toward being "gray" as my hair led the way. I learned in the service to be average, don't draw attention, so there's that. Wasn't always that way. 

If you study and train, being dis-armed becomes a non issue. For example, in some situations my arm stays glued to my hip. Not hand on pistol, just arm covering it. Just habit when people are close.

I have to add that my wife is accustomed to me constantly scanning when we are out. She has learned I'm not looking for another woman but rather keeping the one I have safe. My friends know that my lack of eye contact in conversations isn't lack of interest in what they have to say but interest in us not being a target. Just because one is paranoid does not mean there isn't someone out to get them.

Edited September 23 by papa61

[45guy]

10 minutes ago, papa61 said:

I told my wife that on the day open carry became legal I was going to put my 357 on my belt for everyone to see. I didn't, no one single reason, I just didn't. It's good to know that I can should I wish to. My biggest reason for approving open carry is not having to worry about flashing since I no longer carry IWB. Open carry is quicker if the correct holster is employed. Open carry will desensitize an overly alarmed populace. If everyone who carries were to carry open it wouldn't be an issue. People would see that there are plenty of people who actually go armed every day and understand we are not abnormal. 
For drawing attention to oneself, I haven't seen it to be an issue. I have seen (men primarily) people open carry both here in Shelbyville and in Murfreesboro and most people don't even notice. If you choose a good holster and pistol that doesn't stand out it would be the same as wearing two different shoes. Most people are so self absorbed they will never see anything.

Now, I prefer stainless or hard chrome. I'm currently working on being comfortable with polymer framed black pistol other than my ever present P32 so things may change, but for now, open carry for me would draw some eyes. And I will most likely not open carry on a regular basis. I have also moved toward being "gray" as my hair led the way. I learned in the service to be average, don't draw attention, so there's that. Wasn't always that way. 

If you study and train, being dis-armed becomes a non issue. For example, in some situations my arm stays glued to my hip. Not hand on pistol, just arm covering it. Just habit when people are close.

Lots of good ole common sense here. 

[papa61]

4 hours ago, Thearmededucator said:

 

Now you can say you've seen one. Ultimately it comes down the motivation of an attacker, which is something entirely outside of our control, so we must instead modify our own target indicators to modify the attacker's selection process. Many criminals are doubtlessly deterred, at least temporarily, by open carriers (until the OC'er leaves). They are generally opportunists, and are also some of the most likely to be deterred by the mere presentation of a concealed pistol. 

Its the one that isn't deterred that is the problem. They will be much more willing to do violence from the onset, so why give them any edge? 

I wouldn't begin to debate whether this person or anyone else were targeted because of open carry. 
I'm going slightly off center of the topic and say this should be the training vid for situational awareness. I use earplugs when I mow, shoot or other high noise activity. I use earbuds if I am in the office. To be out on a public street engrossed in whatever he was listening to, or your phone, or your conversation is total lack of tactics. be aware of everything you can see and hear around you at all times. Never ever should one be as totally unaware of their surroundings as this man was.

Never surrender your firearm no matter what the TV LEO does. You are then unarmed and IMHO responsible for whatever your firearm is used for.

this man was attacked with deadly force and had he been alert his first move after being hit would have been to put his hand on his pistol. Once he saw the perp exit armed it would have then been draw, aim, fire end of action. The expert states he was correct in running, this is a half truth. Move and shoot but don't turn your back on a shooter. Most of us do not have the training for that but mental preparedness will help. No one can outrun or dodge the slowest bullet. 

Popular saying to be applied.
"If you find yourself in a fair fight your tactics suck"

[Chucktshoes]

1 hour ago, Thearmededucator said:

While its possible, they did break off as soon as he ditched the gun.

I'm not saying its a guarantee, just that it can and does happen. You can also look at any number of security guards and cops that are ambushed as further evidence of OC making a person a target, along with any number of gun thefts right off the belt of people. 

Personally, I am conflicted on the idea. I 100% believe we should be able to, and that Rights not exercised will be stripped away. However, in most instances in the general public I believe it to be a suboptimal decision.

 

1 hour ago, 45guy said:

Sorry not heard of cops being ambushed because they were open carrying. I am in the private security business and have not heard of them as well. The comment was "I do not want to be the first person shot if things go south" my response is there is nothing I could find to show that happens. There are plenty of reasons not to open carry but that is not one of them.  Targeting cops and gun theft is a different conversation.  Both those have happened. 

I have to agree with 45 here. I would have to strongly lean towards the uniform and not the firearm that’s part of the uniform being what draws the attention of the criminal intent on an ambush.

There are plenty of videos of people having their firearms stolen out of holsters while they are unaware. I would say that presents a strong argument that if you are going to OC, you must utilize a holster with active retention. It’s not necessarily a KO on the entire premise of OC.

[billyblazes]

1 hour ago, papa61 said:

Open carry will desensitize an overly alarmed populace. If everyone who carries were to carry open it wouldn't be an issue. People would see that there are plenty of people who actually go armed every day and understand we are not abnormal. 

Agreed wholeheartedly!  This is the one reason I would encourage open carry.  It would take a lot of participants though to move the needle.  

[billyblazes]

1 hour ago, papa61 said:

 I use earplugs when I mow, shoot or other high noise activity. I use earbuds if I am in the office. To be out on a public street engrossed in whatever he was listening to, or your phone, or your conversation is total lack of tactics. be aware of everything you can see and hear around you at all times. Never ever should one be as totally unaware of their surroundings as this man was.

Although I wear ear protection with any assault on my hearing such as using power equipment, shooting, or being around sirens, I never use earbuds/headphones when I am out of the house exercising or otherwise. The only time the earbuds are used is when I’m in the comfort and relative security of my recliner.

I often wonder how many of the females in the news who are accosted while jogging/walking have had earbuds or similar in place?

[deerslayer]

Most of the folks currently OCing in public around here are a horrible representative of gunowners.  Pretty much every OCer I see in the store has a scowl on their face, a $3 holster, and no idea that someone is standing two feet behind them.  They almost have “I’m OCing just cause and you can kiss my ass” written on their forehead.  I think my wife could disarm most of them. 

[rgfarr]

OC seems risky to me due to the fact you have to be even more situationally aware at all times. Who knows what nut job is waiting in line behind you at the store? Would you carry a gold bar hanging out of your back pocket? Not quite the same thing but bringing unnecessary attention to myself is not ideal in my opinion. 

[leroy]

In my feeble mind, the idea of OC ( other than hunting, woods walking, or on the farm ) gives away the greatest advantage of a pistola, which is surprise. 

The revolutionary war was won generally on the element of surprise.  It works. 

In the two recent times I've needed an equalizer, it's sudden appearance made the difference.  Nobody likes ta suddenly see a pistola in the hands of an old crunudgeonly geezer they thought they could easily push around.  

leroy...

Edited September 24 by leroy

[dawgdoc]

In my opinion, the most logical reason to conceal in Tennessee is the dynamic landscape of when carrying is legally prohibited.   Under the old sign law, there were multiple times that I saw a sign as I was leaving and not before.

Even under the new laws, you good be legal in a park and then a school group shows up without your knowledge and changes that particular location into a prohibited place.   I know you are supposed to be able to leave, but I don't trust the government and its enforcers to know and apply the law fairly.  

As far as I know, there are few cases of such things happening (that doesn't include criminals who were already committing other crimes), but I have no desire to be a test case for some DA that wants to make an example of someone. 

[m16ty]

One good thing about open carrying being allowed is if you gun is “printing” or inadvertently exposed, you don’t have to worry about being charged. I carry concealed, but not deep concealment, for comfort only (I just can’t do IWB holsters). 
 

I also visit FL often, and one of my main concerns is me accidentally exposing my gun and somebody calling the cops or a cop sees me. In TN you don’t have to worry about that.

[m16ty]

On 9/23/2024 at 4:43 PM, rgfarr said:

OC seems risky to me due to the fact you have to be even more situationally aware at all times. Who knows what nut job is waiting in line behind you at the store? Would you carry a gold bar hanging out of your back pocket? Not quite the same thing but bringing unnecessary attention to myself is not ideal in my opinion. 

Just the other day I was in line behind a guy at Lowe’s OCing, and was thinking how easy it would be for me to grab that gun and shoot him in the back before he even knew what happened. He wasn’t very aware either, I don’t think he even knew I was behind him.

[chances R]

https://www.activeresponsetraining.net/friends-dont-let-friends-open-carry

[Elmo Fudpucker]

Back when I took the mandatory 8 hr training to get my permit, the cop who taught it said the open carry right is more so that you don't have to deal with getting in trouble for having your gun seen when holstering, etc. than it is about openly carrying. That aspect makes sense. For all the reasons that have been aptly stated above I agree that it's just a bad idea to open carry in public. 

Edited October 15 by Elmo Fudpucker

[FUJIMO]

On 9/23/2024 at 5:01 PM, deerslayer said:

Most of the folks currently OCing in public around here are a horrible representative of gunowners.  Pretty much every OCer I see in the store has a scowl on their face, a $3 holster, and no idea that someone is standing two feet behind them.  They almost have “I’m OCing just cause and you can kiss my ass” written on their forehead.  I think my wife could disarm most of them. 

Impossible he's down there and up here too.

[itw69fxst]

Aye people need to get their head together when OC - I was in a store and a gent had his Glock in a Kydex holster on his waist. The gun was sticking right out for all to see and it would not have taken much effort to take his gun right out of his holster. That #### is unacceptable - stop being a cowboy and showing off that you have a firearm. You look like an idiot !!

[45guy]

1 hour ago, itw69fxst said:

Aye people need to get their head together when OC - I was in a store and a gent had his Glock in a Kydex holster on his waist. The gun was sticking right out for all to see and it would not have taken much effort to take his gun right out of his holster. That #### is unacceptable - stop being a cowboy and showing off that you have a firearm. You look like an idiot !!

Many on the left would say that about anyone that carried a firearm. Open or concealed.  I can hear them now, Its unacceptable, stop being a cowboy that you think you need to carry a gun.  Frankly it does not bother me either way. 

[LangdoniousRex]

1 hour ago, FUJIMO said:

Impossible he's down there and up here too.

Is that thing even loaded? Also, that overstuffed checkbook is ripe for the pickin'

[FUJIMO]

Well it had a magazine in it i can confirm that. Could be filled with PEZ AFAIK. Yeah poppa likes to keep a fat wad dangling 

[Thearmededucator]

On 10/3/2024 at 3:03 PM, chances R said:

https://www.activeresponsetraining.net/friends-dont-let-friends-open-carry

Glad someone else here reads Ellifritz

[SierraTangoKilo]

The rare times I see someone open carrying, it’s in a holster without level 1 or better retention.  
I prefer to be under the radar as much as possible. Most of the time my friends, family and coworkers don’t even know. 

[45guy]

On 10/3/2024 at 4:03 PM, chances R said:

https://www.activeresponsetraining.net/friends-dont-let-friends-open-carry

I read that article. I also looked at the stories he used as some of his reasoning. One that I noted was in Mexico where a CONCEALED carry guy had his firearm taken from him and used on him. So I guess the story is do not carry or pull your weapon for any reason because it could be taken and used on you. Another shows someone stealing a guys gun that was CONCEALED.  So I guess it can happen both ways. Look just do not carry one at all and nobody will take it. Lol

[Whisper]

Carrying concealed gives one a tactical advantage if a problem requiring use of your gun comes up.  If it's important to you to give up that tactical advantage, then go ahead.  Just remember that none of the nationally prominent firearms trainers recommend open carry.  That could be considered a clue.

Cheers,

Whisper

[45guy]

One can open carry a semi auto bazooka for all I care. What I will not do is disparaged, make fun of or call people names that may choose to do something different than myself. Seems we have enough attacks from the outside already.  I bet if we all watched each other close enough we would find things about what we do with firearms that we do not like.  Live and let live. Or maybe carry any way you want to.