Why not more open carry?

[billyblazes]

I have several friends in Florida who often ask me why open carry is not practiced more in Tennessee.  What's your thoughts as to why open carry is not exercised regularly by more people?

To elaborate, these Florida friends are 2A enthusiasts who are frustrated that despite Florida being referred to as the "Gunshine State," open carry is legally allowed under only a very narrow set of circumstances.  Every year these 2A enthusiasts petition their State legislators to pass a bill allowing for open carry as so many states have, but it never goes anywhere.  In a type of protest which they claim is educate the public, but I feel is also to poke the bear, some of the enthusiasts push the intended limits of the narrow set of circumstances allowing for open carry in Florida.  The Armed Fisherman (Soloyaker) on You Tube is a prime example.

I'm familiar with the arguments of why many feel concealed carry is the smarter option over open carry.  When Florida friends ask me why I personally don't open carry here in TN where I'm allowed to do so on a daily basis, I tell them honestly that it's a pain for me to open carry.  For me, open carry is uncomfortable when seated in my automobiles.  That is because I carry a larger gun than I do when concealed carrying.  Wearing the OWB holster on my hip does not work well with the seats in my autos as a smaller CCW gun does in appendix position.  Also, carrying a larger frame gun when open carrying drags down my pants no matter how good of a belt I use.  In addition, I prefer not to call attention to myself, which I feel open carry does even in a state such as TN.  Some of the friends also don't grasp that no gun signs carry the weight of law in TN in a way that signs don't in Florida. 

Regardless, when I think about it I too am surprised that as I go about my daily stuff in TN and travel often to NC, GA, and AL, I go weeks and weeks, often many months, without seeing a single person open carrying.  Does everybody avoid it for the same reasons I do?  Does everyone feel concealed is smarter than OC despite all of the 2A enthusiasts in FL clamoring for open carry?  Am I just not aware or am I in the wrong places to see open carry happening here?

[Darrell]

I see open carry from time to time, and honestly, I wish those folks would conceal. We all know that LOTS of people are uncomfortable seeing a sidearm strapped to a hip. My preference is concealed for few reasons: I don't want to call undue attention to myself. I don't want to cause worry to others. I don't like the idea of being the first target if some nutcase decides to start shooting inside a store that I'm visiting.

I carry unconcealed when I'm walking in the woods and often on my own property. But in every other circumstance I want to be as discrete as possible. I suspect that a sizeable proportion of those who carry openly do so just because they can, not because it fulfills a necessary purpose.

[miller_man]

I think open carry is dumb and FAR too often the only people I see open carrying have some sorry, poor excuse for a holster and usually a cheaper handgun to go with it - all which tells me they are probably new, not very trained and/or experienced in actual practice/training.  I saw one person at a family event open carrying a LCP, seriously!?

Also, it screams "look at me, I have a gun, this means I'm xxxx".

Plus if a situation comes up where you need a firearm, they have possibly already given away one their best tools - the element of surprise. If I was a bad guy going to rob or shoot up a place and saw someone open carrying, I'd just off them first then start the mayhem.

And another thing, it probably makes anti-gun people more nervous and fearful for no real gain.

Better discussion in my opinion, why would someone open carry?  I'll give them comfort, but throw a button up or vest over it you got your comfort and concealment.

[billyblazes]

Darrell, I find your last sentence to be spot on!  
It’s almost comical, when friends who are visiting me choose to open carry just because they can while in Tennessee and cannot do it in their home state of Florida.  I’m always quick to tell them that their OWB full-size 1911 better not be messing up my leather upholstery. 

Edited September 23 by billyblazes

[Chucktshoes]

When I first started carrying I was a proponent of open carry for all of the reasons your friends have mentioned. The longer I carried, and the more experience I gained with firearms the less desire I had to open carry. The only benefit of being allowed to open carry at this point is if at the end of the day of range Larping I just want to get home, I can just get in the car and go and not worry about it if I have to stop and get gas or something along the way. Otherwise, there is no benefit to advertising that I have a firearm on me .

 

my view at this point boils down to this. Should you have the right to open carry, yes. Should you open carry, no.

Edited September 23 by Chucktshoes

[Sunfish]

People who open carry are going to be the first person to get shot when trouble comes

[chances R]

OC is like showing your cards when playing poker….makes in harder to win.

secondly, it’s like a gay pride T-shirt, it’s offensive and I don’t care or want to know.

[45guy]

41 minutes ago, Sunfish said:

People who open carry are going to be the first person to get shot when trouble comes

Sorry there is no data showing this to be true. You may think that but that does not make it true. I have looked and I have asked this very same question here in the past. I can not find and no one can provide an example of an open carrying person to be the first target when things so south. For a criminal getting in a gun fight is the last thing they want.  (Unless they are just there to kill everyone anyway) If a bad guy sees someone armed they are much more likely to go find a softer target than to just shoot at the guy with a gun to get him out of the way. That's why most all self defense classes teach to make yourself a hard target. Ever wonder why gun shops are hardly ever robbed?  Most conceal carriers are not that concealed anyway. I spot them all the time printing or otherwise showing they are armed to anyone paying attention. 

There are plenty of good reasons to conceal carry but this is not one of them. 

[Defunct Ammo]

Just as some others have already said, I don't want to advertise as someone who carries. I also don't want to be treated any differently than if I wasn't carrying. I just want to mind my own business and carry on with my day without getting weird snickers from the uninformed and/or being asked to leave even if there wasn't any postage stating "guns are prohibited."

[noid]

The main reason I don't open carry is that I want it to be a surprise in the event that I need to draw it. 

About the only time I'll open carry is when I'm hiking. Hiking with an IWB holster on is unpleasant. Additionally nobody really looks at you twice when you've got a piece on your hip out in the woods. 

[45guy]

I have done both. Very few people even noticed either way. I was never treated any differently.  Carrying in a posted place is a good reason to be concealed.  I tend not to spend much time on other peoples motives. When I see someone open I am more interested in what he is carrying and if I need one than anything else. I am no more alarmed by it than seeing someone printing or wearing baggy clothing. I do private security and when I am hired to be armed it is to be a deterrent. Mostly looking after people with money. I explain to them I am not shooting someone over money and they understand that. They still want me armed as a deterrent the same way someone that is open carrying would be one. To each his own. I have friends that do not carry one in the chamber. In my book its nothing more than a paper weight and something I would never do. If your more comfortable conceal then cool if its open I am cool with that as well. 

[Grayfox54]

Most all the valid reasons not to open carry have already been made. I'm a believer in being the Gray Man. Blend into the background and don't stand out at all. Be completely un-noticeable. 

As a friend of mine once said "The bad guy should never realize that you're armed until the second bullet hits him in the chest." 

[Thearmededucator]

12 hours ago, 45guy said:

Sorry there is no data showing this to be true. You may think that but that does not make it true. I have looked and I have asked this very same question here in the past. I can not find and no one can provide an example of an open carrying person to be the first target when things so south. For a criminal getting in a gun fight is the last thing they want.  (Unless they are just there to kill everyone anyway) If a bad guy sees someone armed they are much more likely to go find a softer target than to just shoot at the guy with a gun to get him out of the way. That's why most all self defense classes teach to make yourself a hard target. Ever wonder why gun shops are hardly ever robbed?  Most conceal carriers are not that concealed anyway. I spot them all the time printing or otherwise showing they are armed to anyone paying attention. 

There are plenty of good reasons to conceal carry but this is not one of them. 

 

Now you can say you've seen one. Ultimately it comes down the motivation of an attacker, which is something entirely outside of our control, so we must instead modify our own target indicators to modify the attacker's selection process. Many criminals are doubtlessly deterred, at least temporarily, by open carriers (until the OC'er leaves). They are generally opportunists, and are also some of the most likely to be deterred by the mere presentation of a concealed pistol. 

Its the one that isn't deterred that is the problem. They will be much more willing to do violence from the onset, so why give them any edge? 

Edited September 23 by Thearmededucator

[billyblazes]

Seems most commenting are of the same mindset that the inconspicuous nature of concealed carry has many attributes over open carry.  No argument from me there.  

I still find it odd though that there’s not more local people open carrying just because they can with the same mindset as the Florida zealots I know who are envious of the states allowing open carry.  I can’t believe everybody is as refined as the rest of us on the advantages of concealed over open carry 

[Whisper]

14 minutes ago, billyblazes said:

I still find it odd though that there’s not more local people open carrying just because they can with the same mindset as the Florida zealots I know who are envious of the states allowing open carry.

Maybe -- just speculating here -- it's because Tennesseans in general are smarter than Floridians. 

Cheers,

Whisper

[Chucktshoes]

29 minutes ago, billyblazes said:

Seems most commenting are of the same mindset that the inconspicuous nature of concealed carry has many attributes over open carry.  No argument from me there.  

I still find it odd though that there’s not more local people open carrying just because they can with the same mindset as the Florida zealots I know who are envious of the states allowing open carry.  I can’t believe everybody is as refined as the rest of us on the advantages of concealed over open carry 

I don’t think it’s any more complicated than simply the fact that they are not allowed to do so. If the law were to change there, as I believe it should, you would likely see an initial explosion of the OC zealots doing their thing. But after a while, good sense and social stigma would result in an in-state of affairs as you have here, or nearly everywhere else in which it is legal and tolerated. 

[10-Ring]

I find OC to be a slippery slope. I can think of a couple of reasons the right to OC is important 1) in some states simply printing is considered open carrying, and if open carrying isn't legal in that jurisdiction the person can be charged. Legal OC prevents this. 2) in certain circumstances I prefer to OC but I'm not likely to encounter others while doing so, such as hiking and back country camping. 

So while I believe the right to open carry is important, I don't believe in doing so in public, which is tricky because I also believe that we will lose freedoms we don't exercise. Also, the last thing I want to deal with on a grocery run is some opinionated Karen, that is offended by the presence of my firearm. She will make a scene and I'm not going to educate her, or change her mind. If you are into those kinds of confrontations then open carry may be for you. 

[BHunted]

IWB = Painful Spare Tire... 

[Mason]

The only times I open carry is when I wear a suit and take off my jacket at dinner or to get into a car etc. It is no never intentional when I leave home but sometimes it’s not worth putting a blazer on to grab a burger or gas especially on a hot day. 
 

I have definitely caught myself rolling my eyes at guys in Lowe’s with an OWB nylon holster a few times. They always seem to have their hands full and a dog leash around one arm too.  Most would be an easy target. 

Edited September 23 by Mason

[45guy]

11 minutes ago, Thearmededucator said:

 

Now you can say youve seen one

Did you watch the video? Not really buying they were after his gun. So I should believe that the guys in the truck that had a gun already, targeted him by running him down with the truck and according to him he threw the gun away yet they chased him, shot at him to get his gun. He told someone that he thought they were after his gun. Umm you sure your buying that?

I guess if thats all you can find sort of proves my point. lol

[45guy]

1 hour ago, Chucktshoes said:

I don’t think it’s any more complicated than simply the fact that they are not allowed to do so. If the law were to change there, as I believe it should, you would likely see an initial explosion of the OC zealots doing their thing. But after a while, good sense and social stigma would result in an in-state of affairs as you have here, or nearly everywhere else in which it is legal and tolerated. 

I know when the TN law changed there were comments about we would see more open carrying and all the (problems) that come with that. Yet I noticed no change at all.  

[Chucktshoes]

7 minutes ago, 45guy said:

I know when the TN law changed there were comments about we would see more open carrying and all the (problems) that come with that. Yet I noticed no change at all.  

I should clarify that “explosion” is a relative term. The amount of folks actually interested in open carrying is a vanishingly small percentage over an admittedly small percentage who wish to regularly carry a firearm.
 

[Thearmededucator]

1 hour ago, 45guy said:

Did you watch the video? Not really buying they were after his gun. So I should believe that the guys in the truck that had a gun already, targeted him by running him down with the truck and according to him he threw the gun away yet they chased him, shot at him to get his gun. He told someone that he thought they were after his gun. Umm you sure your buying that?

I guess if thats all you can find sort of proves my point. lol

While its possible, they did break off as soon as he ditched the gun.

I'm not saying its a guarantee, just that it can and does happen. You can also look at any number of security guards and cops that are ambushed as further evidence of OC making a person a target, along with any number of gun thefts right off the belt of people. 

Personally, I am conflicted on the idea. I 100% believe we should be able to, and that Rights not exercised will be stripped away. However, in most instances in the general public I believe it to be a suboptimal decision.

[45guy]

My PA is retired Delta Force guy. He open carries in Lowes.  I would not suggest challenging him by assuming he is a easy target. Even with his hands full and a dog leash I would bet on him any day. So just because you think he may be a easy target I assure you he is not. To me what's more dangerous and irresponsible is carrying a firearm and not practicing weekly or even monthly, some not yearly maybe not ever. I have friends that have not shot their carry gun in years. I have family members that brag that their carry gun has never been shot.  

[45guy]

4 minutes ago, Thearmededucator said:

While its possible, they did break off as soon as he ditched the gun.

I'm not saying its a guarantee, just that it can and does happen. You can also look at any number of security guards and cops that are ambushed as further evidence of OC making a person a target, along with any number of gun thefts right off the belt of people. 

Personally, I am conflicted on the idea. I 100% believe we should be able to, and that Rights not exercised will be stripped away. However, in most instances in the general public I believe it to be a suboptimal decision.

Sorry not heard of cops being ambushed because they were open carrying. I am in the private security business and have not heard of them as well. The comment was "I do not want to be the first person shot if things go south" my response is there is nothing I could find to show that happens. There are plenty of reasons not to open carry but that is not one of them.  Targeting cops and gun theft is a different conversation.  Both those have happened.