HB0962 - Restaurant Carry

[Guest pjblurton]

P.S. The wife and I used to blow about $70, twice a week, at our local O'Charley's. Now days, we do our eating, drinking, and SMOKING at home.

No sweat Jamie, I've got your back.

I used to avoid restaurants like the palgue. Now I drop $70 twice a week. I'll have to say I never cared for O'Charlies though...

The only tough part now is running the gauntlet of smokers 3 feet away from the front door.

[Guest Jamie]

Smoking ougtha be handled the same as carrying guns. Make it legal everywhere except where it's posted. Let the individual business make the decision.

Why not just post "Smoking and gun carrying allowed within these premises" and let the individual who's gonna enter the place decide if that's really what they want to do or not, based on what's going on inside?

Or better yet, don't post anything and let folks pick up and go somewhere else if they don't like the conditions? It's what I usually do.

In other words, I'm all for people finding a place they like, without trying to make every place suit them.

[Guest Jamie]

No sweat Jamie, I've got your back.

Yeah, but you're not doing my local folks or the economy around here any good, are ya?

[Guest pjblurton]

nah, perhaps when I travel.

But it all comes out in the wash.

I still ain't go'in to O'Charlies. Kids eat free there. Too many darned screaming kids...

[K191145]

There's a link from your URL now, dunno if there when you posted, goes to:

Bill Votes

that shows who voted how.

My man Armstrong stayed unswayed ... I hope we can get him the hell outta there next time around.

- OS

I see my Rep. Phillip Johnson is strongly on our side, I hope he continues his carreer in state politics or maybe a run for Congress some day.

I tried to find a page that reported Senate votes on these bills, I would like to see how Barns(D) votes on these. He's the one who the state democrats decided the peoples votes didn't count and was appointed to run on the ticket un-challenged even though Kurita won the popular vote in the primary. I'll refuse to ever e-mail him about anything, I personally don't recognize him as State Senator.

I also assumed that Williams was going to be a Nafieh clone, it seems as though I was wrong. I wish Nafieh would loose the next election but it seems that he's insignificant right now and that pleases me, it must eat at him.

[Guest SomeGuy]

Barnes voted the right way.

[Guest HexHead]

Smoking ougtha be handled the same as carrying guns. Make it legal everywhere except where it's posted. Let the individual business make the decision.

Actually they did. They gave restaurants the right to post they were "over 21 only" and then they could allow smoking. But god forbid there be a few restaurants that parents can't bring their screaming little bastards to.

Most restaurants wouldn't post that, and they won't post about guns either.

[waynesan]

Could people be more misinformed or deliberately misleading in what they are saying about this bill?

Johnson City bar owner: 'Alcohol and guns don't mix' - Kingsport Times-News Online

Johnson City bar owner: 'Alcohol and guns don't mix'

By NET News Service

Published May 10th, 2009

Getting ready for a night out on the town could include making sure your gun is loaded and secured in its holster.

If legislation in the Tennessee House and Senate continues as expected, guns could become legal in establishments where alcohol is served.

Some local bar owners who would be directly affected are not happy.

“Guns don’t belong in bars,†said Don Numan, owner of Numan’s Cafe & Sports Bar in downtown Johnson City. “Alcohol and guns don’t mix. A hundred and some years ago they checked the guns at the door because violence happens. This is a big step backward.â€

The Associated Press reported that the state House voted Thursday to allow Tennessee handgun carry permit holders to bring their weapons into establishments that serve alcohol. The Senate would have to agree with the House version before it can head for Gov. Phil Bredesen’s consideration, but it appears likely to pass since the agreement largely reflects the measure originally approved on a 26-7 vote last month.

Bredesen has not said whether he would sign the legislation into law, but the bill would take effect June 1 if approved.

The measure would leave unchanged an existing ban on consuming alcohol while carrying a handgun, and restaurant owners would still be able to ban weapons from being carried in their establishments.

Managers at New Beginnings, a Johnson City nightclub, declined a request for an interview but issued the following statement indicating how they apply the law: “We’re asking for trouble when we mix guns and alcohol. This could really mean trouble. We will keep it posted on the door and not allow them in.â€

Some local law enforcement authorities also are concerned about the bill. They are not in agreement with some area legislators, including Lt. Gov. Ron Ramsey, a Blountville Republican, who have expressed support for the legislation.

“Alcohol impairs people’s judgment,†Washington County Sheriff Ed Graybeal said. “From a law enforcement perspective, that’s what we are concerned with. How will the alcohol affect the person’s judgment who has the gun?â€

A popular analogy is to compare drinking and carrying a firearm to drinking and driving a car.

“Most of the law enforcement I’ve talked to, in other states and here, say this is not a good idea,†Graybeal said. “If we don’t let somebody have access to a car while they are drinking by law, then we shouldn’t let them have guns.â€

Another facet of the issue is the actual policing of patrons in these establishments. Law enforcement officials see potential problems there, as well.

“My main concern is how to police this,†Johnson City Police Chief John Lowry said. “How will law enforcement police it, and how will establishment owners police it?

“It seems to be a throwback to the Wild West with people trying to get guns into bars.â€

[Volzfan]

Johnson City bar owner: 'Alcohol and guns don't mix' - Kingsport Times-News Online

Johnson City bar owner: 'Alcohol and guns don't mix'

By NET News Service

Published May 10th, 2009

Getting ready for a night out on the town could include making sure your gun is loaded and secured in its holster.

If legislation in the Tennessee House and Senate continues as expected, guns could become legal in establishments where alcohol is served.

Some local bar owners who would be directly affected are not happy.

“Guns don’t belong in bars,†said Don Numan, owner of Numan’s Cafe & Sports Bar in downtown Johnson City. “Alcohol and guns don’t mix. A hundred and some years ago they checked the guns at the door because violence happens. This is a big step backward.â€

The Associated Press reported that the state House voted Thursday to allow Tennessee handgun carry permit holders to bring their weapons into establishments that serve alcohol. The Senate would have to agree with the House version before it can head for Gov. Phil Bredesen’s consideration, but it appears likely to pass since the agreement largely reflects the measure originally approved on a 26-7 vote last month.

Bredesen has not said whether he would sign the legislation into law, but the bill would take effect June 1 if approved.

The measure would leave unchanged an existing ban on consuming alcohol while carrying a handgun, and restaurant owners would still be able to ban weapons from being carried in their establishments.

Managers at New Beginnings, a Johnson City nightclub, declined a request for an interview but issued the following statement indicating how they apply the law: “We’re asking for trouble when we mix guns and alcohol. This could really mean trouble. We will keep it posted on the door and not allow them in.â€

Some local law enforcement authorities also are concerned about the bill. They are not in agreement with some area legislators, including Lt. Gov. Ron Ramsey, a Blountville Republican, who have expressed support for the legislation.

“Alcohol impairs people’s judgment,†Washington County Sheriff Ed Graybeal said. “From a law enforcement perspective, that’s what we are concerned with. How will the alcohol affect the person’s judgment who has the gun?â€

A popular analogy is to compare drinking and carrying a firearm to drinking and driving a car.

“Most of the law enforcement I’ve talked to, in other states and here, say this is not a good idea,†Graybeal said. “If we don’t let somebody have access to a car while they are drinking by law, then we shouldn’t let them have guns.â€

Another facet of the issue is the actual policing of patrons in these establishments. Law enforcement officials see potential problems there, as well.

“My main concern is how to police this,†Johnson City Police Chief John Lowry said. “How will law enforcement police it, and how will establishment owners police it?

“It seems to be a throwback to the Wild West with people trying to get guns into bars.â€

The law prohibits HCP holders from drinking while carrying in these establishments. That is a point that I feel is very important that we don't screw up by saying that there is nothing wrong with having just one with dinner and getting into trouble.

I don't understand why the owners of these establishments are comparing this issue to driving drink. They don't give a d*** about overserving a customer as long as they pay the tab. If they really cared about all of the people that are killed by drunk drivers they would set up breathalyzers at the door and refuse to allow them in their cars if they are legally drunk. And there is the difference. The law allows people driving and drinking and allowing up to .08 alcohol level but the law doesn't allow carrying and drinking at all.

[Guest HexHead]

[ The law prohibits HCP holders from drinking while carrying in these establishments. That is a point that I feel is very important that we don't screw up by saying that there is nothing wrong with having just one with dinner and getting into trouble.

I don't understand why the owners of these establishments are comparing this issue to driving drink. They don't give a d*** about overserving a customer as long as they pay the tab. If they really cared about all of the people that are killed by drunk drivers they would set up breathalyzers at the door and refuse to allow them in their cars if they are legally drunk. And there is the difference. The law allows people driving and drinking and allowing up to .08 alcohol level but the law doesn't allow carrying and drinking at all.

People would probably really think twice about drinking and driving if the penalty for a first time DUI was as severe as a first time getting caught drinking and carrying.

[Redec]

Any word on when this will go up infront of the Senate?

[Guest HexHead]

Any word on when this will go up infront of the Senate?

I thought it was to be today, but it's not on the agendas.

[Guest MediaBuster]

We don't let people who drink alcohol have access to cars? What frigging planet is this guy living on?

[titan14]

I thought it was to be today, but it's not on the agendas.

any agenda updates?

[Guest JavaGuy]

It's entirely possible that this bill will be brought back to the Senate floor today without putting it onto a message calendar.

The latest information is that the Senate will give notice of the House's actions on the bill (i.e. adopting the majority conference committee report last week), and that they (the Senate) might take it up right away. Sen. Jackson can (and probably will) ask for it to be considered immediately.

It's equally possible that the Senate will pull together a message calendar of bills coming over from the House before 5 pm today.

Either way, I guess you just have to watch for it.

Check here for the schedule.

General Assembly Schedule

Here for information on the bill itself.

Tennessee General Assembly Legislation

Here to view legislation by subject (grouped by topics). Links for gun-based legislation are at the bottom of the G page.

Browse Legislation by Subject - TN General Assembly

Enjoy!

Edited May 11, 2009 by JavaGuy
additional information surfaced...

[RinTN]

Could people be more misinformed or deliberately misleading in what they are saying about this bill?

Johnson City bar owner: 'Alcohol and guns don't mix' - Kingsport Times-News Online

Johnson City bar owner: 'Alcohol and guns don't mix'

By NET News Service

Published May 10th, 2009

I saw that yesterday and the term "Yellow Journalism" came to mind. While it might not meet the exact definition, it seems pretty darn close. Heck, I half suspect that the question Sheriff Graybeal answered wasn't about the legislation at hand - as we all know, it does NOT allow for consuming alcohol while carrying.

[waynesan]

In the link to the news article there are a lot of comments posted where this story and law is being debated. One response contained this:

Whats the impact on businesses that will ultimately have to take a stance on this issue? Are the actions that these businesses have to take in response to this helping them or hurting them?

Jesco is right, the Tennesee GOP is ignoring business creation, and instead, they are focused on issues that are hurting local business that now must pay higher insurance fees, adopt accommodation or rejection policies or buy new equipment to enforce their no-gun policies in order to remain insured with their insurance carrier, all so they can accommodate the radical thinking of 3% of the state's population.

There are quite a few responses where the comment is made that insurance rates will go sky high for restaurants because of this law. I find it hard to believe that to be the case with all the restaurants in other states where this is allowed. But I don't know. Does anyone have any information on the effect on insurance rates in states where guns are allowed in restaurants where alcohol is served?

[Guest HexHead]

There are quite a few responses where the comment is made that insurance rates will go sky high for restaurants because of this law. I find it hard to believe that to be the case with all the restaurants in other states where this is allowed. But I don't know. Does anyone have any information on the effect on insurance rates in states where guns are allowed in restaurants where alcohol is served?

I think it's just another example of liberals talking out of their asses.

[timcalhoun]

In the link to the news article there are a lot of comments posted where this story and law is being debated. One response contained this:

There are quite a few responses where the comment is made that insurance rates will go sky high for restaurants because of this law. I find it hard to believe that to be the case with all the restaurants in other states where this is allowed. But I don't know. Does anyone have any information on the effect on insurance rates in states where guns are allowed in restaurants where alcohol is served?

The evidence does not support their claim. This has not happened to the 35+ states that currently have this law in place. They are just grasping at straws to support their position.

[Fallguy]

In the link to the news article there are a lot of comments posted where this story and law is being debated. One response contained this:

There are quite a few responses where the comment is made that insurance rates will go sky high for restaurants because of this law. I find it hard to believe that to be the case with all the restaurants in other states where this is allowed. But I don't know. Does anyone have any information on the effect on insurance rates in states where guns are allowed in restaurants where alcohol is served?

AFAIK no other business' have increased insurance rates because they don't prohibit carry. Not sure why restaurants would.

[Mike.357]

In further new, it was announced today that the sky is falling.

[waynesan]

AFAIK no other business' have increased insurance rates because they don't prohibit carry. Not sure why restaurants would.

The evidence does not support their claim. This has not happened to the 35+ states that currently have this law in place. They are just grasping at straws to support their position.

I think it's just another example of liberals talking out of their asses.

That's my take on it but I have heard that so many times this year and in the past that I got to thinking that maybe they know something that I don't.

In further new, it was announced today that the sky is falling.

[Falcon1]

Simple fact is, restaurants make more profit when someone orders an alcoholic drink instead of a non-alcoholic drink.

When I worked for the Alcoholic Beverage Control Board retail store ("state store") in Virginia in the late 80s, we sold restaurants a 750ml bottle of Jack Daniel's Black Label for the "restaurant/bar price" of $7.60. They turned around and got fifteen 50ml shots out of it at $4.00-$5.00 each...not a bad profit margin at all. Goodness only knows what it is now.

That is why I suspect many restaurants will not post, but only time will tell.

[Guest SomeGuy]

Falcon, am I getting that right?

Pay 7.60, get something like 60-75 back?

[Fallguy]

Falcon, am I getting that right?

Pay 7.60, get something like 60-75 back?

The restaurant paid $7.60 for 750ml or paying barely over $0.01/ml

The they would sell 50ml shots at $5.00 each or selling it at $0.10/ml

If you didn't spill any....you would get 15 50ml shots from a 750ml bottle. At $5.00 a shot that is $75.00 for a bottle they only paid $7.60 for.

Using his figures......