HB0962 - Restaurant Carry

[G27]

Yeah, no grey area... I know the wording can be concerning, but I just happen to be involved in a family ran business (my wifes side) which includes a bar/pool hall... So I know all about the pesky "Serving of meals shall be the principal business conducted" requirement.

The good news is virtually all free standing buildings serving liquor will be open to carry unless properly posted.

Killer, thanks for the clarification, Jay.

[mcurrier]

You can tell their bias by putting "No" on top.

Originally Posted by waynesan

Here's a poll to hit.

The Times News has been a pretty friendly paper for gun owners. But right now this poll doesn't look too good.

Kingsport Times-News Online - Kingsport, Tennessee Breaking News and Information

Do you think it's a good idea to allow Tennessee handgun carry permit holders to bring their guns into businesses that serve alcohol?

No. 50%

Yes. 46%

I don't care one way or the other. 5%

Total Votes: 533

You can tell their bias by putting "No" on top.

Kingsport Times-News Online - Kingsport, Tennessee Breaking News and Information

Currently -

49% YES

45% no

[Fallguy]

Yeah, no grey area... I know the wording can be concerning, but I just happen to be involved in a family ran business (my wifes side) which includes a bar/pool hall... So I know all about the pesky "Serving of meals shall be the principal business conducted" requirement.

The good news is virtually all free standing buildings serving liquor will be open to carry unless properly posted.

The trouble will be the ones in dry counties that can't serve liquor.

But the ones that are in those counties and are "iffy" as to whether they are a restaraunt are probably fairly low.

[Guest db99wj]

So.....now what do we talk about?????

[Guest pws_smokeyjones]

So.....now what do we talk about?????

Ok, now THAT was funny.

[Cowtown]

poll is now 47% yes 47% no..... dead heat

[Fallguy]

poll is now 47% yes 47% no..... dead heat

Considering the bill has already passed the House and the Senate (which has basically passed it several times already) will vote on it Monday.....Not sure how much the poll really means...lol

[E4 No More]

The poll is designed to give the impression of popular thinking: however, it only gives you the popular thinking of the demographic reading it to begin with.

[K191145]

Kingsport Times-News Online - Kingsport, Tennessee Breaking News and Information

Currently -

49% YES

45% no

The 5% that don't care one way or another apparently aren't afraid of permit holders carrying in restaurants that serve alcohol so I put them on our side.

[Guest high-octane]

The poll also doesnt state that the permit holders wont be drinking. So its kinda misleading for people that dont know the laws. i.e. general public

[Fallguy]

The poll is designed to give the impression of popular thinking: however, it only gives you the popular thinking of the demographic reading it to begin with.

Popular thinking doesn't concern me as much as what is legal.....

[Wingshooter]

They have been issued a TN state 'restaurant liquor license'... The state requirements for that license are:

1. A public place kept, used, maintained, advertised and held out to the public as a place where meals are served and where meals are actually and regularly served.

2. Without sleeping accommodations.

3. Supplied with adequate and sanitary kitchen and dining room equipment.

4. Seating capacity of at least seventy-five (75) at tables.

5. Employing a sufficient number and kind of employees to prepare, cook and serve suitable food.

6. Serve at least one (1) meal a day at least four (4) days a week.

7. Serving of meals shall be the principal business conducted

Tennessee Alcoholic Beverage Commission

The state has verified that all businesses which have a state restaurant liquor license meet those requirements as part of issuing the license, so therefore the state has themselves verified you can carry in them (with the 1 exception of 4 meals a week vs 5 meals a week but I doubt seriously many businesses will be impacted by that).

Well, that answers that. Awesome! Thanks.

[VolunteerGuns]

49% yes 46% no 5% deedeedum

[Guest crotalus01]

Still confused - I don't suffer legalise easily.

Clarification - does that mean movie theaters, bowling alleys and other "non-restaurants" are okay for carry now?

[JayC]

Still confused - I don't suffer legalise easily.

Clarification - does that mean movie theaters, bowling alleys and other "non-restaurants" are okay for carry now?

Maybe... If they have a restaurant liquor license then yes (which most of the above should), if they only serve beer, then it's a maybe if they meet the requirements of hb0962 as passed.

The bill is a huge step forward... Most businesses that serve will be covered, but there are still some "maybe" areas... but as a general rule, if it's a free standing building and they serve liquor (and aren't on the "other" list) then it should be safe to carry in them as long as they're not posted.

[Guest bkelm18]

Still confused - I don't suffer legalise easily.

Clarification - does that mean movie theaters, bowling alleys and other "non-restaurants" are okay for carry now?

Well, not now but once the bill passes the senate (again) and the governor either signs it or doesn't sign it, then yes you can as soon as the law takes effect.

[bubbiesdad]

From what I was told from a fellow HCP holder, the owner of our local bowling establishment, who is also a HCP'er, will have no problem with carrying.

[Guest nraforlife]

Everyone just be cool with carrying in a restaurant. I know we can OC but why take the chance of frickin a good thing up by causing an owner to post to satisfy some of his clientel? Carry concealed, enjoy your meal, tip the server and leave.

[-boatman-]

Everyone just be cool with carrying in a restaurant. I know we can OC but why take the chance of frickin a good thing up by causing an owner to post to satisfy some of his clientel? Carry concealed, enjoy your meal, tip the server and leave.

I agree. Reading the comments on all the news paper articles on restaurant carry I believe some people would cause all the trouble for us they could.

[Oh Shoot]

Conf. comm. report adopted, Ayes 66, Nays 23

Source: Tennessee General Assembly Legislation

I have thus far been unable to locate, however, who voted aye and who voted nay.

There's a link from your URL now, dunno if there when you posted, goes to:

Bill Votes

that shows who voted how.

My man Armstrong stayed unswayed ... I hope we can get him the hell outta there next time around.

- OS

[Guest SomeGuy]

It is also worth noting, 6 did not vote. Among them, Harwell, who voted Nay in the past. Perhaps not even being present so she was entirely off the record was for so she could dodge looking really anti-gun?

In reply to nraforlife, and boatman, you guys are being silly.

I have open carried into multiple non alcohol serving restaurants before. Never have I encountered problems. Do not be afraid to challenge the hype and conventional wisdom that says don't, don't, don't! When the Chattanooga TFA chapter met, I could make a good guess by body language who was scared at first seeing a group of guys wearing guns in the place. After a year of regular meetings, and nothing happening (including guest speakers who brought a bunch of guns to show off), I could tell a perceivable softening of the attitude, and significantly less fear, to a point where nervous smiles become warm welcoming smiles.

[TGO David]

This thread does NOT need to become a discussion of Open Carry versus Concealed Carry. That subject has been beaten to death on TGO countless times in the past. Sideline conversations about OC vs CC need to be taken to another thread rather than steer this one off topic.

Thanks.

[Volzfan]

“They’ve not had any problems. I don’t see any problem here,†said Niceley, noting that Tennessee law will continue to prohibit alcohol consumption while carrying a handgun."

I know that I would have the restraint to only have one beer if I was out (like having a dinner), but I'm not sure about other fools (kinda like the guy here in the greenway the other day...)

Matthew

Doesn't the law completely prohibit any consumption of alcohol? It sounds to me like we need the restraint to not even have one beer while carrying. That's all we need is for guys to start getting caught drinking while carrying.

Can anyone clarify this?

[Fallguy]

Doesn't the law completely prohibit any consumption of alcohol? It sounds to me like we need the restraint to not even have one beer while carrying. That's all we need is for guys to start getting caught drinking while carrying.

Can anyone clarify this?

The bill that passed prohibits consuming alcohol period, while carrying inside the restaurant.

There is also 39-17-1321 which says it's illegal to posses a handgun if you are under the influence of alcohol or a controlled substance.

"under the influence" being left up to the officer to determine.

Nicely's quote was about other states...in some other states you can legally consume alcohol while armed. Some of those states have a BAC level. In some the BAC is the same as a DUI in others it is lower. Nicely's point was that even in the states that allow consumption while carrying they haven't had a problem, so if TN allows carry, but prohibits consumption there should be even less chance of a problem.

On macville's quote...I am like him...I believe I could go out and have a drink with dinner, armed and there not be a problem. However I know the law does not allow this.

[Guest Jamie]

On macville's quote...I am like him...I believe I could go out and have a drink with dinner, armed and there not be a problem. However I know the law does not allow this.

I figure give it time for the restaurant owners to figure out that...

A) there people in their establishments carrying guns and not causing any trouble, and that those same gun-totin' individuals who aren't having shoot-outs are cutting into their profit margin by not having at least one drink.

Once that happens, then there might just be some thinking along the lines of "Well, they'll probably be just as well-behaved so long as they aren't actually drunk". After that occurs, there's a chance the law may be altered again to reflect the fact that a responsible person can drink and carry a gun without going nuts and shooting people.

Until then, I suspect that between the news media and their "guns in bars" BS, and the general ignorance of public, any talk of even one beer while carrying a gun is gonna cause the villagers to break out the torches and the pitchforks.

By the way... although I think the passage of this bill is great, it doesn't do a helluva lot for me personally. Y'see, I pretty much gave up on eating out once I couldn't have a cigarette either while I was waiting for my order, or after I had finished eating. And I've wondered what the restaurant owners would have to say if they knew that one law has cost them mine and many other's business.