HB0962 - Restaurant Carry

[Fallguy]

Oh I know....I think it's been a long day for all of us....lol

[GLOCKMEISTER]

your funny Steve... I changed it back... I do bow to your Super Mod :bowrofl:abilitys...

[G27]

MODERATOR FIGHT!

[Guest HexHead]

SunTzu,

He does not sign it, but does not veto it. As I understand, it will be come law, and we win. (I admit, I would like to see someone post citation for this, as I am saying this possibility based off what others have said.

When the law was last changed to allow carry in stores that sold alcohol for off premises consumption, it just sat on Sundquist's desk until it became law on it's own. I think it takes like 10 days.

[Fallguy]

your funny Steve... I changed it back... I do bow to your Super Mod :bowrofl:abilitys...

Umm....changed what?

[Guest crotalus01]

I am ecstatic and confused at the same time. Great this passed, however...

Brunswick Bowling Alley - seperate bar area that serves alcohol, also they serve food. You can take both food and drinks to the bowling lanes - carry permitted there or not under the new law?

Restaurants that allow smoking (21+ only and posted as such) yet they do not card to check age - carry permitted or not?

I love the fact that I do not have to disarm when I got to the local Outback/Applebys/etc but this bill's wording raises a lot of questions.

[Fallguy]

I am ecstatic and confused at the same time. Great this passed, however...

Brunswick Bowling Alley - seperate bar area that serves alcohol, also they serve food. You can take both food and drinks to the bowling lanes - carry permitted there or not under the new law?

IMO This even unclear in the currnent law. Does the license to sell beer apply only to the consession stand or to the whole place? But anyway...the new law does nothing for this one way or the other.

Restaurants that allow smoking (21+ only and posted as such) yet they do not card to check age - carry permitted or not?

Yes...with this bill you could carry there (the age-restriction has been removed from the bill)

I love the fact that I do not have to disarm when I got to the local Outback/Applebys/etc

Which is the main thing some wanted...and it is better than we have now.

but this bill's wording raises a lot of questions.

True enough....

[waynesan]

I had never heard of Rep. Cobb from Spring City. I don't even know where Spring City is. But he gave an endorsement for this bill today in a way that you don't often hear a politician give. I copied it down word for word and I thought ya'll might find it interesting.

He said:

"I believe that any common sense person who is a valid permit holder ought to be allowed to carry in most places.

I have not supported this bill in the past but I've also heard an overwhelming response from my constituents and therefore I will be placing my opinion second to the will of my constituents and I will be supporting this legislation."

If you watch the video: House Session he speaks at 04:24 on the clock.

For those who think it does no good to call or write your representative, here is one who says that is exactly what caused him to vote for something that he himself did not agree with.

To all those who did something, in whatever capacity it was, congratulations on being part of the reason this has come to pass. And considering the difficulty of the opposition in years gone by, that is no small thing to get done.

[Mike.357]

I am good with whatever particulars there are with this bill.

I do not go to bars, been there done that moved on.

If I was to go somewhere that served alcohol, it would be a restaurant such as Texas Road House, Gondolier, Aubreys etc.. So I am not worried about whether a place is a bar or a restaurant.

As for improperly posted business, concealed is concealed and I will disregard those improper signs. I really do not expect to see much in the way of postings at all much less proper posting.

I really can't hardly believe this got through the house. too soon to say it will be a law yet, but we are looking good. I am guessing Bredesen will let it rot on his desk and become law in that manner.

[jay1313g]

Barring a veto that will delay everything, when will this take effect? I think I saw June 1?

(Sorry if I missed it in the other 38 pages.)

[Fallguy]

Barring a veto that will delay everything, when will this take effect? I think I saw June 1?

(Sorry if I missed it in the other 38 pages.)

Awww....come on, you didn't want to read all of the nearly 400 post?

But yes, June 1 in what passed today and what the Senate will vote on Monday.

[GLOCKMEISTER]

we really need John Harris to chime in and clear this up...

[Guest FuzzyLee]

I am pleased that this passed.

I got into a discussion yesterday(5-7-09) concerning the "gray" definition of a restaurant. I'm SCOTTYM over there. I posted the house bill which was a little different, but largely the same regarding the rest. definition.

Chattanooga Times Free Press | Class of 2009

Thanks to all you guys who stay on top of these issues, I don't post much, I lurk mostly, but I fire off the messages to the legislators when you guys call the targets.

[TGO David]

May I suggest going to the TFA site and visiting?

Best place to interact with Mr. Harris, in a forum.

Tennessee Firearms Assoc. Inc. • Index page

I mean no disrespect to John, but the TFA forum is pretty void of activity. Way back in TGO's infancy, there were some comments made to the effect that we should join forces with the TFA and revitalize their forum. I thought it over and decided that there was no benefit to TGO for doing so since even in that early stage we had already blown past the TFA forum in terms of activity and membership.

That being said, I see no reason why anyone should scurry over there to discuss the issue unless they just want to join the TFA and participate on their forums. We're more than capable of discussing it here as is evidenced by the sheer volume of people talking about it on TGO as compared to talking about it over there.

Also, John does post here occasionally as well. He did so recently in regard to the restaurant carry deliberations when he wanted to get more people calling their representatives. I am very happy to have him here and hope that he'll continue visiting and participating with us.

Edited to add...

I just read some more of your post and it struck me that you were implying that TFA is more instrumental in affecting change at the State level than TGO based on the metric of number of TGO hats present on Capital Hill versus the numbers of John Harrises present.

I'm glad that you are pro TFA. I'm pro TFA also and think people should support John's efforts. But I'm pretty sure that we do a good job of motivating people to call their representatives. Even if only a quarter of our members make calls and send emails, you're talking about nearly 1,000 people. That's pretty good mobilization.

There's a reason why John came here to solicit people to call and email their Representatives: Sheer numbers

Edited May 8, 2009 by TGO David

[titan14]

I mean no disrespect to John, but the TFA forum is pretty void of activity. Way back in TGO's infancy, there were some comments made to the effect that we should join forces with the TFA and revitalize their forum. I thought it over and decided that there was no benefit to TGO for doing so since even in that early stage we had already blown past the TFA forum in terms of activity and membership.

That being said, I see no reason why anyone should scurry over there to discuss the issue unless they just want to join the TFA and participate on their forums. We're more than capable of discussing it here as is evidenced by the sheer volume of people talking about it on TGO as compared to talking about it over there.

Edited May 8, 2009 by TGO David

[Guest SomeGuy]

There's a reason why John came here to solicit people to call and email their Representatives: Sheer numbers

I am sure it couldn't be that we in the TFA spread ourselves amongst multiple gun forums, and not just TGO because we wanted to bring a heads-up to the gun community.

I like this forum, I post some, but if you want to be really on top of the political scene, our forum is focused much more on that. Less active by appearance? Sure we appear that way, of course, we are not nearly as broadly focused as this forum, or THR for example. Our much smaller post total is much more concentrated.

Not all gun forums are the same.

[Guest David Waldrip]

Rep. Curry Todd called me earlier this evening per a "thank you" email I sent him. He said that he wanted everyone to know how much he appreciates your thanks, in that your calls and emails "refreshes" him.

He took some hits during this fight, and has already received communications from the "liberals" that they're putting an opponent up against him next year.

Anyway, if you'd like to thank him, his email is rep.curry.todd@capitol.tn.gov.

Lastly, major kudos to NRA Lobbyist Heidi Keesling, who said this was the longest day of her life.

Here's to a great dinner out on June 1st!!

David Waldrip

NRA Institute for Legislative Action

Election Volunteer Coordinator

TN-7

Edited May 8, 2009 by David Waldrip
spelling

[Guest bluecanary25]

To TGO David.

It is not my intent to insult or put down the TGO site.

Sorry if I offended.

Just sharing my views.

[TGO David]

I am sure it couldn't be that we in the TFA spread ourselves amongst multiple gun forums, and not just TGO because we wanted to bring a heads-up to the gun community.

I like this forum, I post some, but if you want to be really on top of the political scene, our forum is focused much more on that. Less active by appearance? Sure we appear that way, of course, we are not nearly as broadly focused as this forum, or THR for example. Our much smaller post total is much more concentrated.

Not all gun forums are the same.

And TGO members are on more gun forums than just this one.

TFA and TGO have the same goals, we just go about them differently. I'm sorry if my comments ruffled feathers but the truth hurts sometimes. We are a much more active community here because not everyone who is interested in firearms is initially interested in politics. The more people on TGO learn about the issues surrounding the hobby we love, the more they become willing to think about the political aspects.

I'm not saying that the TFA isn't instrumental. They are. I'm just not buying for a single second that TGO isn't more effective at reaching out to the people who wouldn't normally give the TFA a second thought, educating them on the issues, and getting them interested in making a difference.

Make no mistake; I'm not trying to toot my own horn. The credit is due to the members of TGO. They make up the site. They keep it active. I just sweep the floors and try to keep the place running smoothly.

[Guest SomeGuy]

David,

I do agree with you that we have the same goals. If I thought differently, I wouldn't be here.

We are a much more active community here because not everyone who is interested in firearms is initially interested in politics.

That is effectively what I was saying in #391. We do have a stronger focus politically, TGO is broader. TGO is a fun forum in and of itself, plus, the floors stay pretty well swept.

I'm just not buying for a single second that TGO isn't more effective at reaching out to the people who wouldn't normally give the TFA a second thought, educating them on the issues, and getting them interested in making a difference.

If that happens, I am all for it. Not everyone is ready to start out playing with the politics. This is again why I spread myself among multiple forums, some may be ready to join the political fight, and those would be better served to check up in our forums some because we do that, frankly, IMO, better than any gun group. John in particular has only finite time, and unlike myself is not able to put as much time into forums as I can. However, I am no John. I have not anywhere near his gravitas or wisdom on these issues. Another reason why the TFA forum is a must visit for any modestly politically active gun owner.

Again, different purposes/methodology, but both orgs have a desire for the same outcome. Would you not agree?

Slightly different subject, but obviously same topic: Anyone who has been actively participating in this thread gone back and re-read from the beginning? Kind of a fun read, to see how we went from wondering, to hope, to fear, to hope, etc...

Edited May 8, 2009 by SomeGuy

[Oh Shoot]

Where is the final vote tally?

- OS

[Falcon1]

Where is the final vote tally?

- OS

Conf. comm. report adopted, Ayes 66, Nays 23

Source: Tennessee General Assembly Legislation

I have thus far been unable to locate, however, who voted aye and who voted nay.

[Guest SomeGuy]

Falcon, I would expect in the next day or two the list will be posted. The website often takes time to update fully. However, if you look at the history, on 4/6 they held a vote, which was 70-26, and another 71-24 on the same day. I would not be surprised if it was effectively the same block.

Regarding the discussion a page or three back, John has chimed in.

Tennessee Firearms Assoc. Inc. • View topic - HB0962 - Restaurants - to meet May 4

A grey area that may need tweaked next session, but I would expect it to be an easier tweak than removing a blatant restriction such as a curfew, while having less of a negative impact (hopefully) in the interim.

Good eyes on whoever it was that caught it first.

[Wingshooter]

The only real gray area I see is...What does "and the serving of such meals shall be the principal business conducted" mean. It doesn't really define that term anywhere.

I think pretty much any national chain will meet that requirement though and there shouldn't be any problem there.

The doubt could come in a local place that happens to serve liquor and has a restaurant license but also have dancing, pool and other activities. One could make an argument that "serving meals" is not there primary purpose, but that they just happen to serve meals. ...and in fact those that don't like this bill may very will use that part of the code to prosecute some.

This is sort of reminding me of the current 39-17-1311 that prohibits "restricted weapons" in parks...on the surface it wouldn't seem to prevent handguns, but the AG says it does...and in the end a judge would probably decide. So probably the same thing here... carry in

412 Grill, Parsons, Tn. and Road Hawg Saloon - Dyersburg Tn - BIKES-BABES-BEER and the judge may be the one that decides if their primary purpose is to serve meals.

That's how I see it, too.

Looks like "and the serving of such meals shall be the principal business conducted" is a gray area. Reminds me of the previous discussions about % of food sales. There are some restaurants / bars out there that I am not sure if their principle business is serving meals or serving alcohol.

Fortunately, many places like Applebees, Outback, Olive Garden, etc. do not fall within the gray area. However, places that are just bars with food are questionable.

For me, I think it will have to pass the common sense test. Would I ever (at any time of the day) go to an establishment for the principal purpose of eating a meal? If so, it probably has a kitchen, dining room, and principle business is serving food.

Very happy that it passed

[Guest bkelm18]

When does the senate vote? I thought that was supposed to be yesterday as well?