HB0962 - Restaurant Carry

[Guest SUNTZU]

SunTzu,

Three paths.

He signs it, we win.

He does not sign it, but does not veto it. As I understand, it will be come law, and we win. (I admit, I would like to see someone post citation for this, as I am saying this possibility based off what others have said.

He vetoes it. We would need a simple majority to over-ride his veto, which we have. We win.

Do we NEED him to sign? No. It simply is easier.

Question answered?

Yeppers. Thankee.

[Fallguy]

Isn't that the same sign that all restaurants currently serving alcohol have to post? If it is then anybody that doesn't update their signs is still posted?

Oh...are you talking about the sign in T.C.A. 57-4-203(k)

If so this is only a warning sign as to what the penalties of illegal carry in a place that serves alcohol for onsite consumption are. It does not prevent carry.

To prevent carry a place will have to post per 39-17-1359.

It is likely the legislature will leave 57-4-203(k) as it is since if someone does not have a HCP the warning contained in that sign would apply.

[bubbiesdad]

Isn't that the same sign that all restaurants currently serving alcohol have to post? If it is then anybody that doesn't update their signs is still posted?

Not legally posted. That sign talks about selling or serving.

[Fallguy]

I stand corrected....

But Beavers ammendment isnt "clean".... I dont care and im happy as a pig in shiet... but

Now they way I understand it they did away with the age restriction but added the difference in restaurants and bars?

So in short you still cant carry in a bar? Right?

Wrong.

We have no legal definition of bar. As such, we no longer have a real prohibition against carry in one. You however, cannot drink whole carrying, but I see nothing that makes walking into a bar a crime. (Having the definition of restaurant shows intent, but minus a legal definition of bar and prohibiting carry there means you can carry in one. This was what prompted some debate today, from certain hysterical ninnies in the House.)

Glock is right...now

The senate version and what passed the house today contains a definition of a restaurant.

It only allows carry in a place that serves alcohol for onsite consumption by those with a HCP in a place that meets the definition of restaurant as defined in the bill.

So if a place does not meet the requirements of that definition, you can not carry in there.

You don't need a definition of a bar, because in general it is till illegal to carry in a place that serves alcohol for onsite consumption. This bill did not do away with 39-17-1305, it just added an exception. The new exception being someone who has a HCP in a restaurant.

Edited May 7, 2009 by Fallguy

[bubbiesdad]

Almost forgot

Oh and a little something for the losing Reps.

[GLOCKMEISTER]

Wrong.

We have no legal definition of bar. As such, we no longer have a real prohibition against carry in one. You however, cannot drink whole carrying, but I see nothing that makes walking into a bar a crime. (Having the definition of restaurant shows intent, but minus a legal definition of bar and prohibiting carry there means you can carry in one. This was what prompted some debate today, from certain hysterical ninnies in the House.)

ok, finally i see where you are coming from. It sounds like an arrest waiting to happen though.

Sorry to be so negative... I guess im just being cautious... this has been a long time coming.

[GLOCKMEISTER]

Glock is right...now

The senate version and what passed the house today contains a definition of a restaurant.

It only allows carry in a place that serves alcohol for onsite consumption by those with a HCP in a place that meets the definition of restaurant as defined in the bill.

So if a place does not meet the requirements of that definition, you can not carry in there.

You don't need a definition of a bar, because in general it is till illegal to carry in a place that serves alcohol for onsite consumption. This bill did not do away with 39-17-1305, it just added an exception. The new exception being someone who has a HCP in a restaurant.

I see what he's saying... but man its way to much of a grey area for me.

[Guest Seminole]

The senate version and what passed the house today contains a definition of a restaurant.

It only allows carry in a place that serves alcohol for onsite consumption by those with a HCP in a place that meets the definition of restaurant as defined in the bill.

So if a place does not meet the requirements of that definition, you can not carry in there.

Correct. So you still can't legally carry in a theater that serves beer or wine, etc. Still, this is a vast improvement in the number of places we can legally carry while enjoying a nice meal and doesn't burden either restaurant owners or patrons with checking the time, age, etc.

[Guest slothful1]

So, what is the text's definition of a restaurant?

[Guest slothful1]

Answered my own question, I think:

As used in this subdivision ©(3), “restaurant” means any public

place kept, used, maintained, advertised and held out to the public as a place

where meals are served and where meals are actually and regularly served, such

place being provided with adequate and sanitary kitchen and dining room

equipment, having employed therein a sufficient number and kind of employees

to prepare, cook and serve suitable food for its guests. At least one (1) meal per

day shall be served at least five (5) days a week, with the exception of holidays,

vacations and periods of redecorating, and the serving of such meals shall be the

principal business conducted.

[GLOCKMEISTER]

there ya go...

[Fallguy]

I see what he's saying... but man its way to much of a grey area for me.

Well...you can carry in a "bar" as long as it is a restaurant as well.

From the bill...

As used in this subdivision ©(3), “restaurant†means any public place kept, used, maintained, advertised and held out to the public as a place where meals are served and where meals are actually and regularly served, such place being provided with adequate and sanitary kitchen and dining room equipment, having employed therein a sufficient number and kind of employees to prepare, cook and serve suitable food for its guests. At least one (1) meal per day shall be served at least five (5) days a week, with the exception of holidays, vacations and periods of redecorating, and the serving of such meals shall be the principal business conducted.

[Guest db99wj]

Answered my own question, I think:

As used in this subdivision ©(3), “restaurant†means any public

place kept, used, maintained, advertised and held out to the public as a place

where meals are served and where meals are actually and regularly served, such

place being provided with adequate and sanitary kitchen and dining room

equipment, having employed therein a sufficient number and kind of employees

to prepare, cook and serve suitable food for its guests. At least one (1) meal per

day shall be served at least five (5) days a week, with the exception of holidays,

vacations and periods of redecorating, and the serving of such meals shall be the

principal business conducted.

Sooo, McDonalds isn't considered a restaurant?

[Guest SomeGuy]

sloth,

http://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/106/Amend/SA0204.pdf

Fallguy,

You make an interesting point. I admit, I will need to run it by John and see a true legal op. I may have been off on this point. I looked at the law, and have to agree with Glock, it is in some aspects grey.

I will note, I have been told before that bars operate under a restaurants license. I have however never been in a bar. Do they serve meals at all?

[Fallguy]

Sooo, McDonalds isn't considered a restaurant?

Since they don't' serve alcohol it's not really releavant....but what about that definition do you think means McDonalds isn't a restaurant?

[Fallguy]

sloth,

http://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/106/Amend/SA0204.pdf

Fallguy,

You make an interesting point. I admit, I will need to run it by John and see a true legal op. I may have been off on this point. I looked at the law, and have to agree with Glock, it is in some aspects grey.

I will note, I have been told before that bars operate under a restaurants license. I have however never been in a bar. Do they serve meals at all?

Here are two places that I think many might consider a bar or nightclub even. I have been to both once. In each place the bar is the first thing you see. The Roadhawg is even age restricted. But they both serve food, and liquor by the drink and otherwise meet the definition of a restaraunt...so IMO it would be legal to carry in these places.

412 Grill, Parsons, Tn.

Road Hawg Saloon - Dyersburg Tn - BIKES-BABES-BEER

[Guest db99wj]

Correct. So you still can't legally carry in a theater that serves beer or wine, etc. Still, this is a vast improvement in the number of places we can legally carry while enjoying a nice meal and doesn't burden either restaurant owners or patrons with checking the time, age, etc.

Would the theater depend. The paradiso theater here in East Memphis serves wine and beer (didn't know that until I looked a few minutes ago), anyway, they have a Coffee Bar, Pizza Cafe, Chicken Tenders, Fried Mozzarella, hot dogs, and some other stuff. They offer the food everyday that they are open, which is everyday. So I can go to the movies, get me some chicken tenders, cheese sticks, a slice of pizza, a coke, some popcorn or candy for desert. That is a full meal that I can get for lunch and/or for dinner.

Sounds like it falls within the defination of a restaurant above. If they just serve popcorn, candy and cokes along with the wine and or beer, then you might have an issue of not falling under the law, however, I can think back to many nights that Popcorn, coke and a candy bar was dinner.

[Mike.357]

i thought every place in TN thats serves alcohol also must serve food.

Doesn't serving food meet the definiton of a restaurant?

[Guest db99wj]

Since they don't' serve alcohol it's not really releavant....but what about that definition do you think means McDonalds isn't a restaurant?

where meals are served and where meals are actually and regularly served, such

place being provided with adequate and sanitary kitchen and dining room

equipment, having employed therein a sufficient number and kind of employees

to prepare, cook and serve suitable food for its guests.

Most of the McD's around here are understaffed and the food is not worth eating, and if you do, don't eat at the restaurant due to the nastiness of the dining area....besides It was a joke:p !!!

[Fallguy]

i thought every place in TN thats serves alcohol also must serve food.

Doesn't serving food meet the definiton of a restaurant?

39-17-1305 deals with ALL types of alcohol.....but......

You have to remember, in TN not all "alcohol" is the same. There is Liquor and Wine whose sales are are controlled by the state and Beer which sales are controlled by local beer boards.

Someone said in another post 90% of places that serve liquor have a restaurant license.

But in some dry counties places may only serve beer.

But simply serving food does not make it a restaurant in this bill. Seems like I remember years ago, bars buying a microwave and nuking burritos and then claiming they were restaraunts...that eventually didn't fly.

Edited May 7, 2009 by Fallguy

[Guest slothful1]

i thought every place in TN thats serves alcohol also must serve food.

Doesn't serving food meet the definiton of a restaurant?

"the serving of such meals shall be the principal business conducted."

[Fallguy]

Most of the McD's around here are understaffed and the food is not worth eating, and if you do, don't eat at the restaurant due to the nastiness of the dining area....besides It was a joke:p !!!

LOL...ok...I figured it was after I posted.....just been reading so much on this today...it slipped by me....

[Guest Seminole]

The paradiso theater here in East Memphis serves wine and beer (didn't know that until I looked a few minutes ago), anyway, they have a Coffee Bar, Pizza Cafe, Chicken Tenders, Fried Mozzarella, hot dogs, and some other stuff. They offer the food everyday that they are open, which is everyday. So I can go to the movies, get me some chicken tenders, cheese sticks, a slice of pizza, a coke, some popcorn or candy for desert. That is a full meal that I can get for lunch and/or for dinner.

Sounds like it falls within the defination of a restaurant above. If they just serve popcorn, candy and cokes along with the wine and or beer, then you might have an issue of not falling under the law, however, I can think back to many nights that Popcorn, coke and a candy bar was dinner.

As I read the definition, two points would seem to prohibit the Paradiso:

[1]such

place being provided with adequate and sanitary kitchen and dining room

equipment. . . and [2]and the serving of such meals shall be the

principal business conducted.

I don't think the Paradiso has either kitchen or dining room equipment and the serving of such "meals" isn't the principal business conducted. Just my $.02 (adjusted for inflation), but of course, IANAL.

[Guest db99wj]

As I read the definition, two points would seem to prohibit the Paradiso:

I don't think the Paradiso has either kitchen or dining room equipment and the serving of such "meals" isn't the principal business conducted. Just my $.02 (adjusted for inflation), but of course, IANAL.

Don't they have tables and chairs set up for people to eat? I think they do?

Principal business....probably excludes it.

Oh well, I don't go to the movies much anyway, to many gangsta' wannabees and you get robbed with the prices they charge...

Edited May 7, 2009 by db99wj

[GLOCKMEISTER]

sloth,

http://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/106/Amend/SA0204.pdf

Fallguy,

You make an interesting point. I admit, I will need to run it by John and see a true legal op. I may have been off on this point. I looked at the law, and have to agree with Glock, it is in some aspects grey.

I will note, I have been told before that bars operate under a restaurants license. I have however never been in a bar. Do they serve meals at all?

It depends on where you are. I own a bar here in Nashville, and lease it out. We have a liquor license and a beer license. We also have to sell food per Metro so were licensed thru the health dept as well. I think thats it.

Btw, I wasnt trying to be argumentative earlier.. but I was told they were adding stuff to keep the bars clear. I assumed it was an age restriction.