Pros and Cons of Bill of Sale

[CastNblast04]

Hey guys, just curious on everyones thoughts on doing a bill of sale or not.  Just wondering if I should ask for one or not.  I have heard stories of buying unknown stolen guns and then losing the gun afterwords.  Also, heard stories of people selling their registered guns to others and then found in a crime.  I guess the pro would be paperwork that backs up your case in one of these situations, but what are more of the cons in doing these?  Hassle?  Taxes?  Just curious and not sure if I should start using a bill of sale or not.

[Grayfox54]

I do BOS either buying or selling. Two copies. One for me and one for the seller/buyer. In today's world I just think its a good idea to keep up with where a gun came from and where it went. As long as LE doesn't come calling, nobody will ever see it other than you and the seller/buyer. 

The only con I know of is that some people will refuse to do a BOS and it may cancel the deal. Frankly, that makes me suspicious and I don't want to do business with that person anyway. 

[CastNblast04]

Thank you!  These were my thoughts as well and confirming them helps with future transactions.

[gregintenn]

I'll sign one if a seller insists, but have seen no reason for one otherwise.

[Danger Rane]

I no longer do transactions either way that involve BOS. I’ve done a couple early on, but people were wanting more and more info on them over time, to include DL # and address. While that info is attainable to those that know how and where to look, I’m not in the habit of handing it over to strangers. When I sell a firearm I do my due diligence in asking to see a carry permit and/or asking if they are legally able to purchase a firearm. I am more than happy to flash my HCP if asked, but have walked away from deals when guys wanted to take pictures of it or pull out a BOS that they hadn’t previously mentioned. I typically don’t sell here to newer buyers but I will buy from them, which helps them build credibility through the feedback feature. I also factor the value of not having a paper trail into the price, both buying and selling. I don’t think that there is anything suspicious about wanting to participate in a perfectly legal transaction that does not involve a paper trail. I appreciate that not everyone feels that way, and thus you can obviously put whatever terms you want on your sale, it just won’t be with me.

[Defender]

My view on this has evolved over time.  I used to want one as I thought it protected me, and the other guy, but then, after realizing just how bad the fed gummit is, I don’t use them myself, and won’t buy if one is required, unless it’s something I really really want at a good price.  I mean, if I’m going to leave a paper trail, I might as well buy new.

[Smith]

Out of principle I won't do one or ask for one. I am required by law to "believe" they are a TN resident and legal to own a firearm. Usually when i ask those questions, they offer to show me their ID or similar, but I decline. 

I don't begrudge the guys that do and I understand their reasoning but I've walked away from some deals because of it. It's not personal and I don't say anything unless it's necessary. It's a personal principled choice and I leave it at that.

Edited Wednesday at 12:42 PM by Smith

[Tom B]

If I sell a gun that I bought new, or has a paper trail to me, I get a BOS.  Just protecting me I figure.

For something I bought without one, I dont ask for one.

Lately I havent been selling, just buying guns that I want to keep. I wouldnt have a problem with a BOS if the seller wanted one though.

 

[gregintenn]

Anybody here ever had a problem a bill of sale corrected?

[deerslayer]

I like them for three reasons -

 If I buy a gun that is later discovered to be stolen, I have a bill of sale.  I’m not sure how much water it would hold with the cops, but it’s better than nothing.  
 

If a gun I bought is stolen from me and recovered, many jurisdictions want some sort of proof of ownership before they give it back.  Again, I’m not sure how much water it would hold with the cops, but it’s better than nothing.  
 

If I sell a gun and the cops come to me and say it was used in a crime, I’ll pull out my bill of sale and say “Here’s where it went and when.”  
 

All I ever ask for is a permit flash and a current address with autograph (no DL numbers, etc).  A simple handwritten bill of sale that I throw in the back of my safe is not the same paper trail as a 4473.  

Edited September 10 by deerslayer

[gregintenn]

1 hour ago, deerslayer said:

I like them for three reasons -

 If I buy a gun that is later discovered to be stolen, I have a bill of sale.  I’m not sure how much water it would hold with the cops, but it’s better than nothing.  
 

If a gun I bought is stolen from me and recovered, many jurisdictions want some sort of proof of ownership before they give it back.  Again, I’m not sure how much water it would hold with the cops, but it’s better than nothing.  
 

If I sell a gun and the cops come to me and say it was used in a crime, I’ll pull out my bill of sale and say “Here’s where it went and when.”  
 

All I ever ask for is a permit flash and a current address with autograph (no DL numbers, etc).  A simple handwritten bill of sale that I throw in the back of my safe is not the same paper trail as a 4473.  

Any of this ever happen to you? How about anyone you know?

[Pain103]

Having had to trace a firearm most recovered from crime scenes are either stolen or long sold to someone else. I don't know about other states, but it is so common even if one was recovered and it traced to a box store sell a few years ago it's not like bunch of alphabet boys show up demanding answers. At most I've seen happen is a call or show up and ask if they had by chance had the gun stolen and either didn't report it or the local agency didn't enter it in NCIC. It happens more than you would think.

[deerslayer]

3 hours ago, gregintenn said:

Any of this ever happen to you? How about anyone you know?

Yes - a friend of a friend was denied his recovered gun when he couldn’t prove ownership.  Another fellow provided the police with his original receipt after they implied that such a receipt would be the only way to assist his plight.  Both cases were years ago and I don’t know if a BOS would have helped in either case, but the first guy would have appreciated the opportunity to try.  
 

I have never needed a BOS for any of the reasons I listed, but I have also never needed to file a life insurance claim.  Hopefully, both trends continue.  

[gregintenn]

7 hours ago, deerslayer said:

Yes - a friend of a friend was denied his recovered gun when he couldn’t prove ownership.  Another fellow provided the police with his original receipt after they implied that such a receipt would be the only way to assist his plight.  Both cases were years ago and I don’t know if a BOS would have helped in either case, but the first guy would have appreciated the opportunity to try.  
 

I have never needed a BOS for any of the reasons I listed, but I have also never needed to file a life insurance claim.  Hopefully, both trends continue.  

Thanks for answering. I wasn’t trying to sound argumentative, but probably did anyway. Yours is the first actual, really happened, situation I ever heard where a bill of sale might have helped. I’ve heard all manner of possible scenarios, but was looking for a real life situation. Thanks for providing that.

[Defender]

9 hours ago, deerslayer said:

Yes - a friend of a friend was denied his recovered gun when he couldn’t prove ownership.  Another fellow provided the police with his original receipt after they implied that such a receipt would be the only way to assist his plight.  Both cases were years ago and I don’t know if a BOS would have helped in either case, but the first guy would have appreciated the opportunity to try.  
 

I have never needed a BOS for any of the reasons I listed, but I have also never needed to file a life insurance claim.  Hopefully, both trends continue.  

Well, despite my earlier post about me not using BOSs, this jogged my memory a bit.  I had a Colt Combat Commander stolen several years ago that I had bought from my operations officer while I the USAF in the 80s.  he gave me a BOS and I filed it away.  Flash forward to many years later and the gun was stolen, I did a police report.  Several years after that, I got a call from a gun buyer that he ran the gun on the stolen guns web site and it came back stolen and my number listed. He gave me the cell number of the guy selling it.  I immediately called the police, Nashville Metro PD to see how to go about getting it back.  During my back nd forth with the detective, he asked if I had a BOS or a receipt and I said probably somewhere but I have no clue if I could find it.  All he did was call the cell number and told them I just want my gun back and wouldn’t press charges.  Of course they said what gun, LOL.   He took no further action, and I never got my gun back.  I wonder if he would have done more if I had my receipt?  Oh and guess what, I ran across that receipt last week, LOL.

[Tom B]

Last year when doing a trade with a guy, he told me a story about a call he got from the police involving a gun that he had owned. It had been used in a crime. Luckily he had a BOS to prove he didnt own it anymore.

[CastNblast04]

Thank you guys for all of your stories and insight on this matter because it helps me see real life scenarios.

[gregintenn]

13 minutes ago, CastNblast04 said:

Thank you guys for all of your stories and insight on this matter because it helps me see real life scenarios.

Me too!

[deerslayer]

I forgot that my uncle had three guns stolen 20 or so years ago.  A decade later, he got a call from the police telling him one had been recovered.  They gave it back to him no questions asked.  This was the same department (Memphis PD) as the one I mentioned earlier.  Different departments probably have different procedures and requirements, or maybe it’s just the whim or mood of whoever is in charge that day or that year.  All I know is I want all available ammo to fight to get my gun back or clear my name if I ever have the need.  A BOS may be weak, but it’s better than nothing.  

Edited Wednesday at 02:43 PM by deerslayer

[Luckyforward]

5 hours ago, Tom B said:

Last year when doing a trade with a guy, he told me a story about a call he got from the police involving a gun that he had owned. It had been used in a crime. Luckily he had a BOS to prove he didnt own it anymore.

Same thing happened to me years ago.  I sold a Ruger Security Six to someone and kept a copy of the BOS.  A few years later two detectives showed up asking me about the weapon and I was able to show I had sold it.  The person I sold it to used it in an armed robbery of a liquor store.

[BigK]

While I freely admit that a BoS gives many a sense of comfort, I don't see why it's usually the seller that asks for one. I feel like it's more beneficial to the buyer to insist on one.

As a private seller of a gun you bought on a 4473, if "they" come knocking to ask about the disposition of the gun, saying "I sold/traded it to a non-prohibited TN resident" has the same effect for you as a BoS, right?

As a private buyer, you have a lot more to lose if you don't have one.

[Tom B]

2 hours ago, BigK said:

While I freely admit that a BoS gives many a sense of comfort, I don't see why it's usually the seller that asks for one. I feel like it's more beneficial to the buyer to insist on one.

As a private seller of a gun you bought on a 4473, if "they" come knocking to ask about the disposition of the gun, saying "I sold/traded it to a non-prohibited TN resident" has the same effect for you as a BoS, right?

As a private buyer, you have a lot more to lose if you don't have one.

 Well, just saying you sold it legally, or actually having some paperwork to back it up, could make a difference in how much they want to talk to you-lol.

[CylonGlitch]

On 9/10/2024 at 10:31 AM, Defender said:

... I mean, if I’m going to leave a paper trail, I might as well buy new.

Exactly how I feel.  I never sell anything, only buy, so I never have to worry about it being used by someone illegally.   But I buy, collect, and have them.   But I don't trust the government and I don't want there to be a way to have it tracked.