Asked to remove my weapon from Kroger!!!

[Guest bemills86]

I would shoot him in the pinky toe.

Ok, I have thought about this and would have done nearly the same thing as the OP. If the security guy would have listened, I would have had a discussion, non threatening of course and non condescending. I keep a small binder in my Jeep (I think it is in my new one, need to check) that has handgun laws in it, mainly for traveling outside of Tennessee. If he was willing, I would have showed them to him. Of course this is if I had time to deal with it and he was willing. However, I am still leaning toward my first comment.

Yea, ths guy didnt want to hear a damn word I had to say. You know one of those that when you start to speak cuts you off. I attempted to reason and be civil with him, but he didnt want to hear it which just pisses me off more!!!

[Guest bemills86]

DCSO is indeed a law enforcement agency as we have a lot of officers who are commissioned to carry firearms. That being said, we do however have officers that are uninformed as to state carry permit laws as do many other agencys. I'm glad you wrote the letter and hope you get a desired responce as this may help us out with better education and training.

I know quite a few people who work for the DCSO, and who have to obtain a HCP just like the rest of us to be authorized to carry a firearm in public. I think the only deputies who dont are the actual on the road, serving warrant type. Also I think they may only be able to carry while on duty, not all the time.

[Guest db99wj]

Yea, ths guy didnt want to hear a damn word I had to say. You know one of those that when you start to speak cuts you off. I attempted to reason and be civil with him, but he didnt want to hear it which just pisses me off more!!!

Well it sounds like this guy deserves one less toe!!!!

I think you are going about it in the right way, my wife would have been the same way as your girlfriend.

[Guest JavaGuy]

"Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't know you were serving liquor by the drink here. What aisle is that in? I'll take the pistol on out to the car and come back in for a margarita or two. Yessireee... Do ya'll have those hot lil' bartenders in shorts and tube tops?"

"By the way, you do have a current liquor license, right??? Or should we go ahead and call the police AND the ABC boys?"

[Guest bemills86]

Was the security guard armed? If so, I would do as he asked and deal with it exactly as you did. A friend's daughter and her boyfriend didn't obey a crazy security guard fast enough and were both shot. They were right and he was wrong but they are still shot.

Glenn

Im also pretty sure that persons with an armed security license, which this guy should have is governed essentially the same as HCP. They are not allowed to use deadly force unless they fear severe bodily harm. Which on my behalf I was in no way threating I kept my hand away from my weapon and spoke to him in a calm voice. In my opinion, two armed people should def stay calm. I am glad he didnt freak out and draw down on me!!! What a mess that would have been!!!!

[Guest slothful1]

Correct.

Signs are there to inform everyone without having to personally inform every person who walks through the door. Signs or not - when a representative of a building's owner/operator asks you to leave (carrying or not) you have been PERSONALLY informed of their wishes and any sign is irrelevant to you, regardless of what it says - because the verbal personal request trumps it every time.

This is true... but it also brings up the legitimacy of the request itself. Suppose this had nothing to do with a gun -- and some security guy tells me to leave Kroger because he doesn't like fat people hanging around eyeing the merchandise. I think I'd have reason to suspect that his instruction was *not* representative of Kroger's policy, and I'd probably want to see a store manager to confirm that the rent-a-cop is accurately speaking on their behalf.

[Guest bemills86]

Maybe he felt like to king of kroger because he was the only one with a gun, and by seeing mine his ego thought that I was attemting to dethrone him..... HAHA

[Guest db99wj]

This is true... but it also brings up the legitimacy of the request itself. Suppose this had nothing to do with a gun -- and some security guy tells me to leave Kroger because he doesn't like fat people hanging around eyeing the merchandise. I think I'd have reason to suspect that his instruction was *not* representative of Kroger's policy, and I'd probably want to see a store manager to confirm that the rent-a-cop is accurately speaking on their behalf.

Maybe he felt like to king of kroger because he was the only one with a gun, and by seeing mine his ego thought that I was attemting to dethrone him..... HAHA

Yep, and besides, Kroger loves fat people, it's the skinny folks they don't care for....

[Guest TEBISH]

I personally would have called the ACLU and asked them for legal representation since my civil liberties were being infringed upon.

Not to promote personal bashing of the SG - but I saw a security guard at my local Ingles for the first time the other day. He looked totally clueless as to what he was supposed to be doing while he was checking out the special deals on their new umbrellas. He couldn't have stopped a crime if he bashed his two brain cells together on a BG's head!

The security guards name is (for his privacy), and he is in the transportation division with the Sheriffs Dept.

You omitted his name - it wasn't Paul Blart was it?

[Glenn]

There is a big difference between "being right" and doing the right thing. Try to explain to a bunch of school kids why they should look before stepping into the crosswalk. They say the cars have to stop for us. They are right but the right thing to do is look before you cross the street so you don't get run over.

Being right doesn't help much if you get run over or have a bullet in your head.

Glenn

[Punisher84]

There is a big difference between "being right" and doing the right thing. Try to explain to a bunch of school kids why they should look before stepping into the crosswalk. They say the cars have to stop for us. They are right but the right thing to do is look before you cross the street so you don't get run over.

Being right doesn't help much if you get run over or have a bullet in your head.

Glenn

That's kinda the point I was trying to make. There is a time to just step away and deal with it later. People don't seem to get the fact that just because you don't respect security guards or even cops, doesn't mean they don't have authority. Even if they are wrong, you usually aren't going to win standing there arguing with them.

The SG was wrong to ask the OP to leave, but as I stated earlier, the OP did the right thing. Had he stayed and started a fuss it would have ended differently, potentially badly.

[Guest grimel]

Not to promote personal bashing of the SG - but I saw a security guard at my local Ingles for the first time the other day. He looked totally clueless as to what he was supposed to be doing while he was checking out the special deals on their new umbrellas. He couldn't have stopped a crime if he bashed his two brain cells together on a BG's head!

For the bajillionth time, a SG's job is NOT to stop crime. The job is to be a good witness and insurance deduction.

[analog_kidd]

I'd be tempted to print out the TN code and hand deliver it to him at Kroger's, carrying of course.

[Guest Wiggy]

I would have left as he asked, after all it's their right to refuse buisness to anyone. But, I would have asked to speak to the manager as soon as I came back... With a copy of the law in my hand.

Start out just by asking their policy, if the manager says "no firearms under any circumstance" then you know to take up the issue with someone higher than the manager of that individual store. If they say "firearms are allowed in accordance with state law" then show them the current law, and encourage them to make sure that their security guards know what the law is before they try to enforce it. End on a positive note, maybe complement them on being so watchful or something like that. Then follow up in the manner that you already did.

That's what I would have done. Kudos on keeping your cool!

[Wrangler]

I would have left as he asked, after all it's their right to refuse buisness to anyone. But, I would have asked to speak to the manager as soon as I came back... With a copy of the law in my hand.

Start out just by asking their policy, if the manager says "no firearms under any circumstance" then you know to take up the issue with someone higher than the manager of that individual store. If they say "firearms are allowed in accordance with state law" then show them the current law, and encourage them to make sure that their security guards know what the law is before they try to enforce it. End on a positive note, maybe complement them on being so watchful or something like that. Then follow up in the manner that you already did.

That's what I would have done. Kudos on keeping your cool!

My $.02 is just dont say anything to the manager. You did the right thing but we dont want them to start posting no carry signs that are in accordance with the law. The security guard will get his due. Just dont say anything.

[Guest mpc40]

>> my shirt came above my weapon and exposed it <<

you're not very good at carrying a concealed weapon?

[DavidD]

>> my shirt came above my weapon and exposed it <<

you're not very good at carrying a concealed weapon?

This is your very First Post?????????

[DavidD]

I'd be tempted to print out the TN code and hand deliver it to him at Kroger's, carrying of course.

Funny you mention this, I carry 16 pages of the TN laws that pertain to Handgun Carry Permits in my truck. I figured that way if there was ever a question I could play dumb and say "I apologize, I have all of the TN Laws pertaining to Handgun Carry Permits right here and I must have missed that one". I do this more for the possability that one might not make a mountain out of a mole hill rather than to be a smarta$$.

To the OP- As others have stated, thanks for portraying a positive image for the rest of us.

[Guest justme]

So I went into the Kroger located at 5319 Mt. View Rd, and my shirt came above my weapon and exposed it and the security guard who works for Special Security LLC, told me I couldnt have my gun in the store. After that he follows me outside and flashes an ID card from the Davidson County Sheriffs Dept andtells me he is a deputy and he knows the law. Below is the email I sent to the Sheriff Darron Hall, and Im waiting on the owner of the security company to call me back.....

I am writing this email because of an event that took place on April 25, 2009. I was in a Kroger near my home in south Nashville buying tickets from the Ticketmaster located within. I am a Handgun Carry Permit holder. I was leaning on the counter and my shirt rose over my handgun which was in a holster tucked inside of my waistband. The security guard who was working in the store saw my weapon and proceeded to tell me that I needed to remove the handgun from the premises because "They sell alcohol here". Which is not against state and local laws because the alcohol is not consumed on premises given that it is a grocery store. Whenever I walked towards the door I told the security guard that he was wrong, he followed me and stopped me outside the front door and pulled his wallet out and flashed an ID card that said he was a deputy sheriff in Davidson county, and said "I know what I'm talking about I'm a deputy". I am pretty sure that it is against policy for this individual to flash his ID card and tell me that he is a deputy when he is in fact off duty, and working for another employer. This offended me, not only that he flashed a card at me telling me that he was a deputy, but not knowing the local laws in regards to what he was telling me. If you are going to act as a deputy, then at least know the law before you attempt to enforce it.

The security guards name is (for his privacy), and he is in the transportation division with the Sheriffs Dept. I m not writing this to have this individual reprimanded, I just believe he may need a training "booster shot", maybe to bring him up to date with current laws.

I would have wanted him reprimanded and sent for refresher training, as well as training in community relations--assuming he is really a deputy in the first place.

I agree--if they want to work in LE at least learn the laws they are supposed to "uphold" instead of making them up as they go along.

[Guest mpc40]

>> This is your very First Post???????? <<

I do tend to lurk more than post, but its the end of the day and I am feeling mean, old, ornery, worn out, and dog eared.

[Guest justme]

>> my shirt came above my weapon and exposed it <<

you're not very good at carrying a concealed weapon?

First, Tennessee does not have a concealed weapons permit...and second, you do not have to carry concealed in this state.

[DavidD]

>> This is your very First Post???????? <<

I do tend to lurk more than post, but its the end of the day and I am feeling mean, old, ornery, worn out, and dog eared.

Welcome to TGO, I guess........................

[dralarms]

Funny you mention this, I carry 16 pages of the TN laws that pertain to Handgun Carry Permits in my truck. I figured that way if there was ever a question I could play dumb and say "I apologize, I have all of the TN Laws pertaining to Handgun Carry Permits right here and I must have missed that one". I do this more for the possability that one might not make a mountain out of a mole hill rather than to be a smarta$$.

To the OP- As others have stated, thanks for portraying a positive image for the rest of us.

Any chance you post a link the stuff you carry around. I think it's a great idea.

[Fallguy]

Any chance you post a link the stuff you carry around. I think it's a great idea.

If you wanted to, you could start with the info in this post. Has links to all the laws on off-limits places, Self-defense laws and pertinent AG opinions.

[dralarms]

If you wanted to, you could start with the info in this post. Has links to all the laws on off-limits places, Self-defense laws and pertinent AG opinions.

Appreciate that, however most of the links bring up 1 line of something. Not the law it is supposed to reference. Don't know.