School Shooting in Georgia

[Links2k]

The dad is potentially facing 180 years behind bars. 

 

[TennesseeCamper]

You can’t pick your parents but this kid definitely drew the short straw when it came to parents. Doesn’t excuse what he did but I am sure it didn’t help.  Apparently his mother was well know to law enforcement. 
 

https://mynbc15.com/news/nation-world/mother-marcee-ann-gray-of-accused-georgia-high-school-shooter-colt-gray-has-extensive-criminal-record-father-colin-apalachee-high-school-winder-victims-ar-15-style-rifle-felony-murder-involuntary-manslaughter-barrow-fulton-forsyth-county

[Omega]

Misleading, I am pretty sure the dad did not buy the rifle for his son to use in a shooting.  Is he liable, so far I am leaning no.  I have weapons all around my house, loaded with one in the pipe.  They are for home protection, makes no sense to make it more difficult to get to and use in case I need them for their intended use.  The Christmas present, I look at it like this, if someone makes an unfounded accusation, which if there was evidence the FBI would have been more interested in a follow-up.  The dad, my speculation, probably thought it was BS, so acted right for months with no other issues.  Probably already had plans to buy him the AR and he seen no reason not to.

 

As to them coming for our guns, when they come right out and say it, I believe them.  I will not get surprised when they start rounding them up, I am paying attention and fighting it as much as I possibly can, so will not become complacent just because it hasn't happened yet.  We have already allowed too many restrictions on law-abiding Americans, I don't care how many laws they pass to keep it out of the hands of criminals, but it should have 0 effect on law-abiding citizens, only criminals.  It seems that the criminals have more rights than we do.

[Garufa]

I think some people just need to come to the realization of several things.

First of all, if you or your 13 year old kid is questioned by the GBI, FBI, or whatever law enforcement agency for threats made in person or online, you have some major issues that need to be resolved.

Secondly, part of that resolution sure as hell is not going to involve providing something like an AR to an obviously troubled child. Especially after the previous point.

Thirdly, parents are in fact responsible for their children.  Period.  If you enable your child who already has a “history”, you are culpable.

i could go on but there is no point.  Many of us grew up in a very different time.  Unfortunately, times and people have changed…for the worse.

Oh, and if things like this continue “they” will take all the guns, regardless of the constitution, although the idea is absurd.

Edited September 7 by Garufa

[Chucktshoes]

20 minutes ago, Garufa said:

I think some people just need to come to the realization of several things.

First of all, if you or your 13 year old kid is questioned by the GBI, FBI, or whatever law enforcement agency for threats made in person or online, you have some major issues that need to be resolved.

Secondly, part of that resolution sure as hell is not going to involve providing something like an AR to an obviously troubled child. Especially after the previous point.

Thirdly, parents are in fact responsible for their children.  Period.  If you enable your child who already has a “history”, you are culpable.

i could go on but there is no point.  Many of us grew up in a very different time.  Unfortunately, times and people have changed…for the worse.

Oh, and if things like this continue “they” will take all the guns, regardless of the constitution, although the idea is absurd.

Exactly. 
 

With rights comes responsibility. The bigger the right, the greater the responsibility. The greater the responsibility, the bigger the consequences for failing to live up to them. 

Edited September 7 by Chucktshoes

[steveo50]

I don’t have a solution but I just don’t think making our schools look like the embassy in Baghdad is the best we can do, or remotely good for children’s mental health. Also, cops have been too coward to act in multiple school shootings, so what’s to say a packing kindergarten teacher will have the courage to engage an active shooter? 
Between the threat of violence, kids having sex in the bathrooms, classrooms,etc, and predatory teachers, if you have the ability to homeschool, do it. 

Edited September 7 by steveo50

[papa61]

On 9/5/2024 at 11:44 AM, Links2k said:

What happens when a kid sucker punches a teacher, either with their hands or a blunt object , disarms said teacher and uses the teacher’s weapon to go on a shooting spree inside a school?

It may not happen to you, because of your training and gun retention skills, but please don’t say it can’t happen. Who’s to blame then?

I’m a gun owner, not a gun fanatic. Someone asked earlier, what’s the common denominator in these incidents, I assume  they were alluding to mental health. I can agree with that, but so is access to the gun. 
 

I’m not convinced that there is a massive effort to disarm the populace. The they’re coming for our guns crowd has become the boy who cried wolf and a proven tactic to sale more guns. 

You're pulling a lot of what if's here. Why not go so far as to say what happens when a kid steals a car, wrecks into a patrol car, and steals the officer's weapons? There were unsecured firearms in my home as a child. I never touched them without permission. There were hundreds available to my high school classmates, and there were many fights as well as bullying that went on. Therre were no shootings in any of my schools growing up and I never heard of any elsewhere. It isn't the guns, it isn't accessibility. I have my own opinion as to why but I'll let you figure out your own answers.

[Garufa]

18 minutes ago, steveo50 said:

I don’t have a solution but I just don’t think making our schools look like the embassy in Baghdad is the best we can do, or remotely good for children’s mental health. Also, cops have been too coward to act in multiple school shootings (I used to be a cop so I will judge), so what’s to say a packing kindergarten teacher will have the courage to engage an active shooter? 
Between the threat of violence, kids having sex in the bathrooms, classrooms,etc, and predatory teachers, if you have the ability to homeschool, do it. 

The “change” everyone always harps on is not going to come from voting, elections, or the seriously pathetic excuse for people we have running the country from towns to cities to states and finally, the country.

This is the society we have created.  No one is responsible.  Children have equal rights as adults.  Those in government are self serving idgits whose only talent is talking. Rampant idealism with no grounding in reality or history.  People pumping out kids and expecting the idgits to raise them but  they can’t.

[papa61]

3 minutes ago, Garufa said:

This is the society we have created.  No one is responsible.  Children have equal rights as adults.  Those in government are self serving idgits whose only talent is talking. Rampant idealism with no grounding in reality or history.  People pumping out kids and expecting the idgits to raise them but  they can’t.

These are a couple of the things in my opinion above about what is different.

[Chucktshoes]

John Adams: 'Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.'

[Garufa]

5 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

John Adams: 'Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.'

So the Constitution does not apply to all citizens?

[steveo50]

9 minutes ago, Garufa said:

The “change” everyone always harps on is not going to come from voting, elections, or the seriously pathetic excuse for people we have running the country from towns to cities to states and finally, the country.

This is the society we have created.  No one is responsible.  Children have equal rights as adults.  Those in government are self serving idgits whose only talent is talking. Rampant idealism with no grounding in reality or history.  People pumping out kids and expecting the idgits to raise them but  they can’t.

I feel like the rapid degradation of society coincided with the rise of the internet and social media.
I agree, nothing actually happens or changes, only platitude and pandering. 

[Garufa]

23 minutes ago, papa61 said:

You're pulling a lot of what if's here. Why not go so far as to say what happens when a kid steals a car, wrecks into a patrol car, and steals the officer's weapons? There were unsecured firearms in my home as a child. I never touched them without permission. There were hundreds available to my high school classmates, and there were many fights as well as bullying that went on. Therre were no shootings in any of my schools growing up and I never heard of any elsewhere. It isn't the guns, it isn't accessibility. I have my own opinion as to why but I'll let you figure out your own answers.

 

16 minutes ago, papa61 said:

These are a couple of the things in my opinion above about what is different.

If you are referring to the first quote then  I have a news flash for you.  Not everyone was strapped when we were kids.  We knew how to resolve problems…without shooting each other.  Resolution of disagreements did involve an ass-whooping but it was a one-on-one situation.  Not kill everyone.

Edited September 7 by Garufa

[Alleycat72]

38 minutes ago, Garufa said:

I think some people just need to come to the realization of several things.

First of all, if you or your 13 year old kid is questioned by the GBI, FBI, or whatever law enforcement agency for threats made in person or online, you have some major issues that need to be resolved.

Secondly, part of that resolution sure as hell is not going to involve providing something like an AR to an obviously troubled child. Especially after the previous point.

Thirdly, parents are in fact responsible for their children.  Period.  If you enable your child who already has a “history”, you are culpable.

i could go on but there is no point.  Many of us grew up in a very different time.  Unfortunately, times and people have changed…for the worse.

Oh, and if things like this continue “they” will take all the guns, regardless of the constitution, although the idea is absurd.

I have 3 adopted children. 4.5 in total if you take in account the 22 year old I have treated as mine for 6 years. (He's not officially adopted)I have a safe in the garage, a safe in the bedroom, several interior doors require key codes. My Wife doesn't have access to either safe. She does know the key codes because one is to the bedroom door. To get a gun you need a key code for the room and access to a safe. Home defense guns are accessible from the bedroom, if you're in the bedroom and you know what to do. My Wife and I are armed at the house. 3 of my adopted kids have issues. The main issue is the absolute absence of emotions from my oldest son. He knows it's an issue. Guns are not apart of his life even though he knows its apart of mine and his older siblings. My youngest son is the opposite. If he witness something get hurt, he'd be devastated. We spend a ton of time in the hospital or Dr with our youngest Daughter. We have had a few issues with the old Daughter due to the amount of time we spend with the other kids, but it was relatively easy with her. It's a delicate balance with them all.  Stuff like this scares me to death. My oldest Daughter has won F-Class championships at 1k and 600 yards at 10-12 years old. My 14 year old son doesn't know how to take a safety off an ar15. My Daughter is almost 21 and slinging cows blood on a white background at MTSU so she can get a degree in forensics. It's not always the parents fault however sometimes it is. 

[papa61]

2 hours ago, Omega said:

Misleading, I am pretty sure the dad did not buy the rifle for his son to use in a shooting.  Is he liable, so far I am leaning no.  I have weapons all around my house, loaded with one in the pipe.  They are for home protection, makes no sense to make it more difficult to get to and use in case I need them for their intended use.  The Christmas present, I look at it like this, if someone makes an unfounded accusation, which if there was evidence the FBI would have been more interested in a follow-up.  The dad, my speculation, probably thought it was BS, so acted right for months with no other issues.  Probably already had plans to buy him the AR and he seen no reason not to.

 

As to them coming for our guns, when they come right out and say it, I believe them.  I will not get surprised when they start rounding them up, I am paying attention and fighting it as much as I possibly can, so will not become complacent just because it hasn't happened yet.  We have already allowed too many restrictions on law-abiding Americans, I don't care how many laws they pass to keep it out of the hands of criminals, but it should have 0 effect on law-abiding citizens, only criminals.  It seems that the criminals have more rights than we do.

 

1 hour ago, Garufa said:

I think some people just need to come to the realization of several things.

First of all, if you or your 13 year old kid is questioned by the GBI, FBI, or whatever law enforcement agency for threats made in person or online, you have some major issues that need to be resolved.

Secondly, part of that resolution sure as hell is not going to involve providing something like an AR to an obviously troubled child. Especially after the previous point.

Thirdly, parents are in fact responsible for their children.  Period.  If you enable your child who already has a “history”, you are culpable.

i could go on but there is no point.  Many of us grew up in a very different time.  Unfortunately, times and people have changed…for the worse.

Oh, and if things like this continue “they” will take all the guns, regardless of the constitution, although the idea is absurd.

 

44 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

Exactly. 
 

With rights comes responsibility. The bigger the right, the greater the responsibility. The greater the responsibility, the bigger the consequences for failing to live up to them. 

So we need parenting? Discipline? Morals? Yes we do! I keep several weapons at the ready. When my children were young I had one out of four that was not trustworthy. One who would sneak, scheme and work through barriers to access. I had to keep all but one empty and locked, I had one that was always within arms reach, ready to go. We have the responsibility as parents to understand our children and their tendencies. We have the responsibility of seeing that they are not perfect and see their faults. Adapt and overcome. Trust but verify. I have avoided the news on this shooting. I don't want to know what the media says, I don't care what the politicians have to say. This is tragic, as with the Nashville shooting, I'm sure clues were missed or ignored. We live in a time where parents will fight unceasingly for their children even if they know the child is wrong. So yes, we are all complicent allowing our society to get where we are. It's going to take adults to fix this. Not teachers and politicians but parents.

Also, there have been two students in Nashville schools caught with guns this week. Do I think the timing of an election year is part of the issue? Sure, the rhetoric is not lost on our youngsters, they hear when the president says a GOP win will destroy our country.

[Chucktshoes]

4 minutes ago, Garufa said:

So the Constitution does not apply to all citizens?

It’s the foundational law of the land. Its applicability to all and the results of its inadequacies should be readily apparent to anyone with eyes and a working brain.
 

That’s the point of the Adams quote. He knew what kind of document he had helped craft and the type of people it was written for. We have created a population that can’t be adequately ruled by it because they do not possess the requisite moral principles that act as self limiting boundaries on behavior. 

[papa61]

7 minutes ago, Garufa said:

 

If you are referring to the first quote then  I have a news flash for you.  Not everyone was strapped when we were kids.  We knew how to resolve problems…without shooting each other.  Resolution of disagreements did involve an ass-whooping but it was a one-on-one situation.  Not kill everyone.

Where I went to high school, there were gun racks in trucks. Where I grew up there were a lot of adults strapped at all times. Yes, we could resolve things without weapons, one on one. We could also say "I'm going to kill you" and not be arrested for the rhetoric it was.

[papa61]

and slipping off topic somewhat. I fully believe that "they" would and will try to disarm Americans completely. It is the basis of "their" platform to take care of you every need. Your diet, your health care, your security, what your children are taught, what kind of car you drive, what you can and cannot say. If you don't think "they" will actually try to take your guns you need to open your eyes to what they have already taken.

[Alleycat72]

19 minutes ago, papa61 said:

Where I went to high school, there were gun racks in trucks. Where I grew up there were a lot of adults strapped at all times. Yes, we could resolve things without weapons, one on one. We could also say "I'm going to kill you" and not be arrested for the rhetoric it was.

That was before anti bullying. Now kids have no idea how to cope if someone calls them a bad name. 

[OLDNEWBIE]

On 9/5/2024 at 11:44 AM, Links2k said:

What happens when a kid sucker punches a teacher, either with their hands or a blunt object , disarms said teacher and uses the teacher’s weapon to go on a shooting spree inside a school?

It may not happen to you, because of your training and gun retention skills, but please don’t say it can’t happen. Who’s to blame then?

I’m a gun owner, not a gun fanatic. Someone asked earlier, what’s the common denominator in these incidents, I assume  they were alluding to mental health. I can agree with that, but so is access to the gun. 
 

I’m not convinced that there is a massive effort to disarm the populace. The they’re coming for our guns crowd has become the boy who cried wolf and a proven tactic to sale more guns. 

Just to calm the "what if" resistance to armed, trained, volunteer teachers in schools....This might be the ONLY time smart gun technology would help. Links2k, would you still be against armed teachers if supplied with smart guns?

[ianb]

37 minutes ago, OLDNEWBIE said:

Just to calm the "what if" resistance to armed, trained, volunteer teachers in schools....This might be the ONLY time smart gun technology would help. Links2k, would you still be against armed teachers if supplied with smart guns?

In general I'm supportive of armed teachers and like the concept of smart guns for the purpose. To expand the thought, would less lethal options such as tasers be worse than nothing? I have no personal experience with such weapons so I'm genuinely curious.

[Links2k]

22 minutes ago, OLDNEWBIE said:

Just to calm the "what if" resistance to armed, trained, volunteer teachers in schools....This might be the ONLY time smart gun technology would help. Links2k, would you still be against armed teachers if supplied with smart guns?

I say ask the teachers. I know many teachers and principals locally who want no part of the burden of going armed while attempting to teach.

It blows my mind that these questions are having to be asked. Most of us on TGO are old enough to remember the only potential life threatening events we had to deal with in school were tornado warnings and nuclear missile practice. 

If I had a preference, I’d rather the state set up a SRO academy and allocate them in larger numbers to all public schools based upon student attendance levels. Also, I would limit entrances to two and make the remaining doors exit only with alarms on them. My proposal would cost money, and no one wants spend any money. 
 

I agree with these two memes. 

[BigK]

Asking teachers what their thoughts on anything 2A related is like 2 wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. They are going to take a dump on our 2A rights 10 times out of 10. The ones who don't wanna touch guns would NEVER be forced to, but they want to prevent the ones willing from saving lives. If a teacher is smart enough to educate our kids, he/she is smart enough to be trained to protect our kids. SROs are not any smarter than a teacher and the amount of actual firearm and situational training would likely be about even.

If I need an opinion about astronomy, NDT would do. On religion, school shootings, and politics, he has proven himself to be a moron.

Edited September 7 by BigK

[Grayfox54]

I believe the Dad has a very good chance of beating his charges in court. However, the legal fees will bankrupt him. But then, maybe that's the whole idea behind these charges. If your kid gets crazy, you're gonna pay one way or another. 

[OLDNEWBIE]

2 hours ago, Links2k said:

I say ask the teachers. I know many teachers and principals locally who want no part of the burden of going armed while attempting to teach.

It blows my mind that these questions are having to be asked. Most of us on TGO are old enough to remember the only potential life threatening events we had to deal with in school were tornado warnings and nuclear missile practice. 

If I had a preference, I’d rather the state set up a SRO academy and allocate them in larger numbers to all public schools based upon student attendance levels. Also, I would limit entrances to two and make the remaining doors exit only with alarms on them. My proposal would cost money, and no one wants spend any money. 
 

I agree with these two memes. 

All armed teachers proposals I've heard are trained volunteers only with Principal approval, so no burden on anyone. Agreed on all the extra security you mentioned though