School Shooting in Georgia

[TGO David]

8 hours ago, Grayfox54 said:

Its always somebody else's fault. 

It's all about revenge and control.

Revenge is exacted through the legal system, but doesn't do anything to bring back the dead or heal the wounded.  Punishing parents for the acts of their kids is something that shouldn't happen, in my opinion, but it is embraced by our society because people want to believe that harming someone is the reasonable recompense for being harmed.  Eye for an eye.

Punishing the perp is fine with me.  Punishing a perp's family?  Rarely is that justified.

 

Control comes into the mix because there is a coordinated agenda at play to eventually disarm the American people.  The risk any of us carries by owning firearms is that we must lock them up so securely that not even the most driven, committed thief can get them.  The people driving the agenda want you to be so burdened by the consideration of risk that you choose not to own guns.  They fuel that fear by crucifying parents when their kids do something like this.

Ask yourself if a parent would be specifically attacked for making a fork or butter knife carelessly available to their kid if said kid took one to school and stabbed other kids with it.

Of course not.  Because it's about the tool and not about the person using it for a crime.

 

 

 

[Thearmededucator]

I went to college in GA, and know many teachers and coaches in that area. Ive got mutual friends with the male teacher killed. This crap pisses me off so much, because we continue to disarm the teachers who are in the best position to stop this immediately. 

I'm tired of hearing how an RSO on campus is the solution. Even in the building, we still have 13 shot.

In the words of the mutt that Eli Dicken shot in Indiana: 

“Gun Free Zones are a recent phenomenon that by definition cause them to be easy targets”

[Links2k]

1 hour ago, Thearmededucator said:

 because we continue to disarm the teachers who are in the best position to stop this immediately. 
 

What happens when a kid sucker punches a teacher, either with their hands or a blunt object , disarms said teacher and uses the teacher’s weapon to go on a shooting spree inside a school?

It may not happen to you, because of your training and gun retention skills, but please don’t say it can’t happen. Who’s to blame then?

I’m a gun owner, not a gun fanatic. Someone asked earlier, what’s the common denominator in these incidents, I assume  they were alluding to mental health. I can agree with that, but so is access to the gun. 
 

I’m not convinced that there is a massive effort to disarm the populace. The they’re coming for our guns crowd has become the boy who cried wolf and a proven tactic to sale more guns. 

[Thearmededucator]

22 minutes ago, Links2k said:

What happens when a kid sucker punches a teacher, either with their hands or a blunt object , disarms said teacher and uses the teacher’s weapon to go on a shooting spree inside a school?

It may not happen to you, because of your training and gun retention skills, but please don’t say it can’t happen. Who’s to blame then?

I’m a gun owner, not a gun fanatic. Someone asked earlier, what’s the common denominator in these incidents, I assume  they were alluding to mental health. I can agree with that, but so is access to the gun. 
 

I’m not convinced that there is a massive effort to disarm the populace. The they’re coming for our guns crowd has become the boy who cried wolf and a proven tactic to sale more guns. 

1) Concealment is the first form of retention.

2) The same logic applies to all the SROs, but is only used as a negative argument against teachers. And you cant say training or conditioning, because from the last numbers I have seen, 1 in 20 cops killed on the job were killed with their own weapon (admittedly these numbers are from 2000-2011).

3) As for Who's to Blame, even in this straw man circumstance, the answer is the same. The SOB carrying out the attack. 

4) As for common denominators, here are the statistics from the 478 active shootings reported by the FBI from 2000-2022
 

The common denominator is that an immediate civilian response, whether armed or unarmed, has half the casualty rate of a police response. It drops even further with an armed civilian response. In 27 events stopped by armed civilians, attackers caused an average of 3.6 casualties (1.25 dead and 2.4 wounded per event)

Edited September 5 by Thearmededucator
Adding info

[Links2k]

1 hour ago, Thearmededucator said:

1) Concealment is the first form of retention.

2) The same logic applies to all the SROs, but is only used as a negative argument against teachers. And you cant say training or conditioning, because from the last numbers I have seen, 1 in 20 cops killed on the job were killed with their own weapon (admittedly these numbers are from 2000-2011).

3) As for Who's to Blame, even in this straw man circumstance, the answer is the same. The SOB carrying out the attack. 

4) As for common denominators, here are the statistics from the 478 active shootings reported by the FBI from 2000-2022
 

The common denominator is that an immediate civilian response, whether armed or unarmed, has half the casualty rate of a police response. It drops even further with an armed civilian response. In 27 events stopped by armed civilians, attackers caused an average of 3.6 casualties (1.25 dead and 2.4 wounded per event)

Thanks for your response. 

[TGO David]

2 hours ago, Links2k said:

I’m not convinced that there is a massive effort to disarm the populace. The they’re coming for our guns crowd has become the boy who cried wolf and a proven tactic to sale more guns. 

I realize there is a difference between intent and ability, but politicians have expressed the intent to "come for our guns" repeatedly.  I believe them when they say they want to disarm us.  Don't you?

 

[gregintenn]

5 hours ago, TGO David said:

It's all about revenge and control.

Revenge is exacted through the legal system, but doesn't do anything to bring back the dead or heal the wounded.  Punishing parents for the acts of their kids is something that shouldn't happen, in my opinion, but it is embraced by our society because people want to believe that harming someone is the reasonable recompense for being harmed.  Eye for an eye.

Punishing the perp is fine with me.  Punishing a perp's family?  Rarely is that justified.

 

Control comes into the mix because there is a coordinated agenda at play to eventually disarm the American people.  The risk any of us carries by owning firearms is that we must lock them up so securely that not even the most driven, committed thief can get them.  The people driving the agenda want you to be so burdened by the consideration of risk that you choose not to own guns.  They fuel that fear by crucifying parents when their kids do something like this.

Ask yourself if a parent would be specifically attacked for making a fork or butter knife carelessly available to their kid if said kid took one to school and stabbed other kids with it.

Of course not.  Because it's about the tool and not about the person using it for a crime.

 

 

 

If your kid causes trouble, the repercussion falls on you as a parent until they reach the age of 18. Sometimes bad kids come from good parents, but that is an anomaly in my experience. 

[deerslayer]

1 hour ago, TGO David said:

I realize there is a difference between intent and ability, but politicians have expressed the intent to "come for our guns" repeatedly.  I believe them when they say they want to disarm us.  Don't you?

 

I think Link in the past has claimed that many politicians screaming for gun control are simply firing up their base or fundraising and don’t mean what they say, or at least have no plans to follow through.  There are probably some who would never admit it, but fit that description.  Joe Biden is/was possibly one example.  He talked the talk, but gun grabbing never seemed to be a top priority for him.  On the other hand, there are politicians pursuing disarmament who mean every word they say AND will make it a priority.  I have always believed Kamala Harris is one of these and am not looking forward to what she has in store for America if she wins.  

Edited September 5 by deerslayer

[Links2k]

1 hour ago, TGO David said:

I realize there is a difference between intent and ability, but politicians have expressed the intent to "come for our guns" repeatedly.  I believe them when they say they want to disarm us.  Don't you?

 

There was a time that I believed politicians wanted to take our guns. Now I think the gun issue is much like the abortion issue. It’s a scare tactic that politicians, lobbyists and gun makers use to line their pockets. The dog caught the car on the abortion issue, and it cost one party two elections. Anti-gun politicians aren’t serious about catching that car. Then they would actually have to run on policy. Just one guys opinion. 

[Thearmededucator]

8 minutes ago, Links2k said:

There was a time that I believed politicians wanted to take our guns. Now I think the gun issue is much like the abortion issue. It’s a scare tactic that politicians, lobbyists and gun makers use to line their pockets. The dog caught the car on the abortion issue, and it cost one party two elections. Anti-gun politicians aren’t serious about catching that car. Then they would actually have to run on policy. Just one guys opinion. 

I can't refute the possibility. Like in most things, you have a sliding scale of levels of motivation. A probably significant number of Anti-Gunners probably fall into that category; but amongst them are true believers.

Which brings the following quote to mind (if not necessarily in a literal sense):

"Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause."

[deerslayer]

27 minutes ago, Links2k said:

There was a time that I believed politicians wanted to take our guns. Now I think the gun issue is much like the abortion issue. It’s a scare tactic that politicians, lobbyists and gun makers use to line their pockets. The dog caught the car on the abortion issue, and it cost one party two elections. Anti-gun politicians aren’t serious about catching that car. Then they would actually have to run on policy. Just one guys opinion. 

While I don’t doubt there is some truth in what you say, assuming there are no “true believers” in power who would do the unthinkable if given the opportunity is risky and complacent.  I bet the murder-the-babies people would agree. 

Edited September 5 by deerslayer

[BigK]

11 hours ago, ianb said:

I disagree. The father doesn't need probable cause to more securely store his weapons, discuss shootings with his son or seek professional advisory and counseling help. This falls on the parents and they should also be held accountable.

The father stated his son didn't have unsupervised access to his guns. The fact that the kid found a way to get his hands on one doesn't mean the father didn't securely store them. It only means the boy might have found the safe combo or key and the dad never knew the kid had access.

Any speculation that the father didn't have serious talks with his son and believed everything was alright is unsubstantiated. You have to believe the dad is some kind of monster if you believe he knew his kid was dangerous and took no steps. I haven't seen any evidence to support the dad willfully allowed this to happen.

Kids have been pulling the wool over their parents eyes forever. Think of all the stuff you got away with that your parents didn't know about. Punishing them is only appropriate if they were complicit.

[Garufa]

It is being reported that the father bought his maniac son the “AR-style rifle” used in the killings as a Christmas present last December…months after the kid became “known” and questioned for his online activities.

 

[dawgdoc]

The father is being charged:

Quote

The GBI has announced that they will be charging Colt Gray’s father, 54-year-old Colin Gray, with four counts of involuntary manslaughter, two counts of second degree murder and eight counts of cruelty to children.

https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/massive-police-presence-apalachee-high-school-barrow-county/S3LVRPI5DRFPFIFP4O7WXE3VOE/

[ianb]

11 hours ago, BigK said:

The father stated his son didn't have unsupervised access to his guns. The fact that the kid found a way to get his hands on one doesn't mean the father didn't securely store them. It only means the boy might have found the safe combo or key and the dad never knew the kid had access.

Any speculation that the father didn't have serious talks with his son and believed everything was alright is unsubstantiated. You have to believe the dad is some kind of monster if you believe he knew his kid was dangerous and took no steps. I haven't seen any evidence to support the dad willfully allowed this to happen.

Kids have been pulling the wool over their parents eyes forever. Think of all the stuff you got away with that your parents didn't know about. Punishing them is only appropriate if they were complicit.

I'm sorry, I wasn't clear. By "securely stored" I meant to imply that the father would also securely store the key and/or combination as well. 

I think it's safe to assume that the son was unsupervised when he accessed the rifle and shot up the school. 

This notion that parents shouldn't be accountable for the actions of their kids is one of the main problems with our society. Complicity is not the only reason for liability. Negligence counts too. If you have a child you should be a parent. 

[RED333]

I heard on the news this morning that the father gave the son the rifle for Christmas last year.

The father of Apalachee High School shooting suspect Colt Gray has been arrested and charged with murder, after allegedly buying his 14-year-old son an AR-style rifle as a Christmas present.

Edited September 6 by RED333
Because I can

[AuEagle]

[pop pop]

TN past teacher carry last session. To my knowledge not one teacher has qualified, for many different reasons. Mostly the bigger school districts will not allow teacher carry. State needs to change that, IMO. Then if teachers want to carry they can become qualified. 

Also, to my knowledge this school had the famed "Panic Button" that came out of the last shooting discussions. News reports said the button was activated. Didn't work well enough, did it.  In the Nashville shooting the lockdown worked to deny further access to the kids, but still had casualties. Sorry, but the "Panic Button" does not work 100%. Not the perfect solution. 

I feel so sorry for these parents and that school. Prayer they can get the handle on this but wonder if they ever will.

My solution is "Armed, Dedicated, Well Trained, Teachers", but most can't go there at this time. Quicker repose is better, but not perfect either. I really don't know if there is a "Perfect Solution'" IMO. 

[BigK]

5 hours ago, ianb said:

I'm sorry, I wasn't clear. By "securely stored" I meant to imply that the father would also securely store the key and/or combination as well. 

I think it's safe to assume that the son was unsupervised when he accessed the rifle and shot up the school. 

This notion that parents shouldn't be accountable for the actions of their kids is one of the main problems with our society. Complicity is not the only reason for liability. Negligence counts too. If you have a child you should be a parent. 

Now that NEW info has been released that the father admits buying his little nutjob a gun AFTER the GBI told him about his son's online activity and the father admits to giving the child access, all bets are off. He's clearly 100% negligent and deserves the charges he's facing.

It's possible to safely secure a safe key and someone still find it. You sound like one of those leftist anti-gunners who blame firearm owners when a criminal breaks into their house/car, steals their secured firearms, and uses them to commit a crime. At some point you have to stop blaming the theft victim when they took reasonable steps to keep their gun secure, but a criminal STILL found a way to get access.

Nobody with a brain would suggest that parents aren't accountable for the actions of their kids. I know I didn't suggest that! The fact that the kid found a way to access the gun when the parent thought it was secure DOES NOT mean the parent was negligent. You can be as careful as possible and someone still does bad things you thought you had prevented.

If you think every time a child does something bad it's because they weren't parented, you must not have ever raised children. They are resourceful and NO parent can think of everything. You don't even know this boy's dad, so how do you know this little monster wasn't properly parented? You have practically zero facts and are reacting almost purely on speculation. It may turn out that the parent did drop the ball, but assuming that before you have those facts makes no sense.

Edited September 6 by BigK

[Erik88]

1 hour ago, AuEagle said:

Yeah I'm immediately skeptical when I see something like this given the amount of misinformation on the internet these days. We have no way to easily validate this either. 

 

 

[AuEagle]

14 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

Yeah I'm immediately skeptical when I see something like this given the amount of misinformation on the internet these days. We have no way to easily validate this either. 

 

 

I'm skeptical also, we'll see if the truth ever comes out.

[BigK]

22 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

Yeah I'm immediately skeptical when I see something like this given the amount of misinformation on the internet these days. We have no way to easily validate this either. 

 

 

Looks suspect to me too. It doesn't even look like the same kid the FBI interviewed

https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/accused-apalachee-high-school-shooters-trouble-home-life-potential-warning-signs

[Grayfox54]

Most parents ain't got a clue about their kids. Sure, they're perfect when around Mom or Dad, but when they're on their own, totally different kid. But this is also perfectly normal. All kids hide things from their parents. Its natural.  Think about all the stuff you got away with as a kid that your parents never knew about. 

Long story I won't get into, but I once saw a 13 year old look a Police Officer dead in the eye and say that if he got into trouble over this, he'd kill the kid who reported him. Repeated that several times and was dead serious. Of course when his mother arrived she said "My baby? No way, you're the liar!" 

[OLDNEWBIE]

I'm really against parents or anyone being charged for the uncoerced actions of another person. These charges against the father seem misplaced. By news reports he was negligent gifting his son a rifle knowing the kid made threats but Manslaughter?, Murder? When a street punk steals a gun and gives it to his buddy KNOWING he is a violent killer does the street punk get charged with murder when his buddy uses the gun to kill again? Second time parents getting harsh punishment for the Kid's crime and I agree this could be a deterrent but this is BS gun control! Charge the Dad with child neglect and endangerment resulting in death or something like that. In the meantime more SRO's, more security, armed Teachers, a bit of YES, PROFILING, vetting and monitoring of kids with problems. This kid had a history as usual

[OLDNEWBIE]

7 minutes ago, Grayfox54 said:

Most parents ain't got a clue about their kids. Sure, they're perfect when around Mom or Dad, but when they're on their own, totally different kid. But this is also perfectly normal. All kids hide things from their parents. Its natural.  Think about all the stuff you got away with as a kid that your parents never knew about. 

Long story I won't get into, but I once saw a 13 year old look a Police Officer dead in the eye and say that if he got into trouble over this, he'd kill the kid who reported him. Repeated that several times and was dead serious. Of course when his mother arrived she said "My baby? No way, you're the liar!" 

Where are these "perfect around Mom & Dad" kids you speak of? My weird kids are/were the opposite lol. Mean Jerks to Mom & Dad and angels to the general public!