Glock's new Model 21SF .45ACP

[SkWaShDeM]

Wonder why they didn't make changeable backstraps? That works well on the P2000 and S&W M&P.

Because that would make too much sense now that they've got such a huge portion of the market to keep in the dark about the newer and better designs coming from the competition.

[molonlabetn]

Wonder why they didn't make changeable backstraps? That works well on the P2000 and S&W M&P.

You know the answer to that!

Glocks embody PERFECTION! They have no need to emulate those other designs which are IMPERFECT

Perfection, version 4.0...

Okay... it's fun to bash, and their weaknesses have been thoroughly discussed... But that doesn't mean I think Glocks are totally inviable weapons. I simply can't help but giggle inside at the irony of their marketing.

[SkWaShDeM]

Glocks are perfect just the way they are. They give me plenty of ammo for jokes about European gun manufacturers that have delusions of grandeur that make them think they're on the same level as another gun manufacturer on that side of the Atlantic that shall remain nameless... *cough* H&K *cough* Sorry... something got caught in my throat... I need a cough drop apparently.

[The Rabbi]

Another reason to not take training.............well, never mind.

Agreed.

I fail to see the real advantages in the gun over what they have right now. SIG is terrible about this, coming out with a "latest and greatest innovation" every year on a design that is probably 50 years old.

I think it's a great idea to have a mag release that can be switched around for a left-handed shooter, a feature that everyone except Glock seems to offer. Having one totally ambi like the Walther, well. OK. I dont have feelings on it one way or another. If it works for someone, great.

The new Smith M&Ps are completely ambi, with a slide release on both sides.

[molonlabetn]

Agreed.

SIG is terrible about this, coming out with a "latest and greatest innovation" every year on a design that is probably 50 years old.

Very true... Personally, I prefer the classic, basic models made by Sig. Can't get a new P220, P226 or P229 without a rail now, unless you get the SAS versions... The good old P225 and P228 are no longer made.

The P239 and P232 are the only ones which are still available in unfornicated trim. I'll be supremely disenchanted with Sig if they put a rail on either of those models!

It's like having a rail on a 1911... It should be optional, not standard. Few people actually use them in practice.

Beretta is much the same, replacing their 92/96 lineup with the rail-standard 90-Two...

Speaking of Beretta... anybody heard anything about the .45acp PX4?

[The Rabbi]

I fail to see the attraction of rails myself. I tend to think, you want a gun, buy a gun. You want a flashlight, buy a flashlight. I especially dont see a purpose for one on a compact, like the Smith M&P 9c I got. Little tiny rail. But once you stick a bulky light on it, it isnt compact anymore.

[Marswolf]

I agree about the rail. When I want a light, I hold it in my hand. Got my tacky-light sitting here beside me now. I can see some potential for lasers but I had one and don't now. That may indicate my view.

Back to the 21SF, the Picatinny rail doesn't seem too popular with the Glockies.

[molonlabetn]

Back to the 21SF, the Picatinny rail doesn't seem too popular with the Glockies.

Yeah... The rail is ugly. But, it is a balanced ugliness. It's pretty hard to complain about making a Glock uglier.

[Donnie]

The grip helped, but it's not enough. With all of the .45ACP guns out there with smaller grips, Glock is too late to the fight with this one. I think they will sell pretty good to the die hard Glock people, but most non-glock people will still be turned off by the large grip and odd grip angle.

What can I say, it's still a Glock 21 with a little shaved off the back of the grip.

[Guest EasilyObsessed]

Beretta is much the same, replacing their 92/96 lineup with the rail-standard 90-Two...

Speaking of Beretta... anybody heard anything about the .45acp PX4?

Supposed to be coming available shortly. The 9mm sub-compact px4 is also going to soon be available. www.berettaforums.com has a range review of the sub-compact. No review of the 45 that I could find.

Im looking forward to replacing my G27 with a sub-compact PX4 when they become available in 40.

[The Rabbi]

Yeah... The rail is ugly. But, it is a balanced ugliness. It's pretty hard to complain about making a Glock uglier.

I had someone buy a RaceFrame lower frame for his Glock. That might just qualify.

[Smith]

Ugly just got uglier. It's interesting to me that the company who hasn't brought anything new to the industry (except 45 GAP) in years is touting a "new" thing which is still behind all the others as far as innovation. And the Glockers will probably be ecstatic about this great "new" development.

[Marswolf]

I understand Glock will have a Glock standard rail for those who don't like the Picatinny.

So Glock's big innovation is a 45 ACP with all the old safety problems but with a slightly smaller backstrap and a second small magazine release on the right.

How will the other gun manufacturers ever catch up?

[The Average Joe]

(*new guy here*)

I have a Glock 21SF, but have not had time to take it to the range.

I got it at the Bob Pope Gun Show just before Independence Day.

Glock has never been high on my list to own, but the price was right and I was there. I'd have been a fool to leave it.

I will say, I do like the way it's slimmer frame fits my fat little fingers.

The weight and capacity are a plus, too. The Picatinny rail also accepts my TLR-1 perfectly.

I was impressed with all the extra fodder that was included with it, too:

Of course the case, spent shell, lock and owner's manual are a constant. It also included a cleaning brush and rod, and a mag loader. I think the foreign manufacturers like doing that. I haven't seen to much extra with my Colts, Kimbers, and Rugers. At least it makes me feel like I got more bang for my buck.

The draw back to owning one of these, now is I haven't been able to find any extra mags (it came with 2), and I can't accessorize the pistol with anything other than a holster.

I haven't been able to locate a slug plug either.

I've been shopping eBay and Glockstore.com.

I tend to stay away from buying directly from the manufacturer, as they're usually the most expensive.

[towerclimber37]

glocks? Ugh!

some will say its silly, but here's my view on a pistol mounted flashlight.

If someones' coming after me with in the dark with a flashlight mounted pistol...that light makes a pretty GREAT aimpoint!

[molonlabetn]

Ressurected!

I will say, as true it is that lights are a bullet magnet, there is some advantage to being able to dial 911 while illuminating and covering a goblin.

[Donnie]

It is true that a weapon mounted light is a bullet magnet, but as Eddie has stated, they do have their advantages.

You can illuminate a threat and dial 911 if you haven't already taken care of the threat. You can navigate within your house and open doors with your free hand easily. Who said that the light on your gun has to be the only light that you have? It's not like the light on your gun has to be on all the time, that's what momentary switches on them are for. They add bulk to the front of the gun and help with faster followup shots. A light in your hand is just as big of a bullet magnet as one on a gun. They look cool too.

[Marswolf]

Well, do give us a range report as soon as possible.

A light in your hand is just as big of a bullet magnet as one on a gun.

That's why it it isn't on the gun but held out to the side.

[Guest Len]

Being a Glock owner/lover, I'm interested to hear how she shoots as well. I have yet to even see one in person and so am envious.

[Cruel Hand Luke]

Some interesting comments so far. Why the Glock hate? Just curious. A LOT of bad dudes carry glocks BY CHOICE.

As far as the 21SF goes, IF it fit my hand (and I haven't handled one yet) it MIGHT be interesting. I doubt it will do anything my carry gun doesn't already do. There just really isn't THAT much difference between performance of the different service calibers when using IWBA compliant ammo to go to a gun that doesn't fit my hand as well. But the military was looking for a new.45 and that is where this came from. Of course that project got killed........

Innovation. Guys there is nothing that you can reasonably do with the new guns that can't be done with a 1918 vintage 1911, 1940 vintage P35 Hi Power or any number of other "technologically challenged" pistols. It is the operator not the tool. If you work the gun will, no matter what it is. If you don't , it won't, no matter the gun. That won't sell many gun magazines,or new pistols but it is true.

Now, can you make a certain gun fit you better with removable backstraps? Sure. But I'm not stuck with having to carry any certain pistol so I can pick and choose what fits ME. And if my gun I presently carry works...why would I want to change? To be cool? In the circles I travel in we look for ability and proficiency, not who is carrying what. And as far as HK goes...at least Glock doesn't act like they don't want civilians to buy their guns. Don't try to argue this , I work in the industry. I know what I'm talking about.

I have never understood why there HAS to be something new just for the sake of there being something new. My 9 year old Glock 34 puts rounds where I want them when I want them there. It goes bang every time I ask it to and it holds a lot of ammo. The rest is up to me. I wouldn't be any better armed with an HK (which frankly don't sit low enough in the hand for me) or a Sig (don't like the grip angle), or a Kimber whatever(which I have yet to see more than a handful that don't have some kind of issues), or an M&P. And neither would anyone else.

I find it amazing how many folks have "innovative" pistols never shoot them, are afraid to get any holster wear on them or Heaven forbid, drop it in the dirt. It is a freakin' tool. Unless you are willing to get out and train with it , get some wear on it, get it dirty, and abuse it a little it is just an expensive nick nack. Might as well be a glass unicorn.

So while you guys might call me a "Glockie" or whatever, that's cool. I don't take it personally. My gun works and it is paid for. Frankly I don't like HK pistols. They just don't feel "right" to me. I can have ANY thing I want. I carry a G34. And it isn't because I don't know any better, it is because in reality I don't NEED nor would I really benefit any from one of those more "innovative" designs.

On weapon mounted lights....I don't think they are all that useful to civilians on the street and only marginally more useful to them in the home.On the street it just is rarely ever dark enough to NEED a light (for a civilian in a shooting situation) and we don't go into structures to look for suspects. And in the home you don't need to be "building clearing" anyways. Hole up in the safe room and repel borders if they try to enter. Building clearing with just one person is suicidal. Sorry it is. Try it sometime against a live opponent in Force on Force.

The one thing I can say is you CAN put pressure on a wound and illuminate an area AND cover it all at the same time with a weapon mounted light. That is not so easy with a hand held. Remember neither YOU nor your family are bullet proof and the bad guy may not be the only one to get shot....hope you guys have a tourniquet or an H bandage to go along with your "innovative" pistols. If not, Yeager's store sells 'em.

[Mike.357]

Following that logic, any left-handed shooter is just fundamentally screwed from the outset if they use a handgun designed for a right-handed person

Being left handed and shooting mostly left handed I can attest to the fact that in a right hand world we leftys learn to adapt and overcome on many levels. I can easily drop a magazine by using my index finger on my left hand. I can use that same finger to release the slide lock as well. I personally do not see it as any real disadvantage.

All my life I have learned to adapt to y'alls world. I also train myself to shoot righty as well. Need be I feel just as comfortable with either hand really.

What does annoy me in the shooting world is semi auto rifles and having shells eject across my right eye all the time. Pistols feel fairly normal weak handed but shooting long guns just feels plain weird trying to do it righty.

I do not see why a ambidextrous mag release would prohibit anyone from buying the weapon though. I do not own nor have I ever shto a Glock but the mag release thing seems to be an advantage.

One thing I am certain of is that I am in my right mind and most everyone else is not.

[Marswolf]

Being a Glock owner/lover, I'm interested to hear how she shoots as well. I have yet to even see one in person and so am envious.

Yeah, you are a Democrat too. Just can't do anything right....

I'm interested in how it shoots. Problem is, it's still a Glock with the same design flaws. [heads for bunker]

[The Average Joe]

My opinion on the rail light.... you need to see your target to take aim.

Just because I've got a light on my gun, doesn't mean I have to leave it on.

Those who are familiar with the TLR-1 and the like will know that rail lights have a switch that allows a constant and temporary on/off.

Like most weapon accessories, there's always a right and wrong way to go about using them. A calm head and tactfulness is always a must.

Why the Glock hate?...

I think Glock ownership and speak by wrappers and thugs in general have put the Glock in a bad light. Even on other threads in different forums, just the mention of my new purchase, people kiddingly posed the question, "So I guess you're a gangsta, now?"

Another opinion, it freakin' ugly. There's nothing glamorous about it. Unlike the 1911 or Colt SA Army style handguns, this one has no character. It's strictly "form follows function". There's no doubt in my mind, Glock hits the mark, but let's face it, you're not going to see a Glock with a set of stag grips or fancy engraving on a marshal's hip in a parade or at a barbeque.

[LA_357SIG]

*Yawn*

With all the effort put into the 45GAP I was wondering why the heck Glock would screw themselves with a slim frame 45 ACP.

The general public (i.e. ME) has been demanding a single stack 45ACP Glock favoring the 1911 style for years. Or even a compact 45ACP without the need for a stupid pinky extension. (something between the G21 and G30)

Of all my handguns, I like my Glock 32 the most followed by my beloved Kimber CII. So, in closing: F' the G21SF, make my full size G36, and "All we are saying,.....Is give Glock a chance":)

[TGO David]

The GAP was an answer looking for a question, IMO. The SF is clearly Glock's attempt at staunching the bleeding that came when Springfield released the XD45 and proved that you can have a high capacity .45ACP DAO handgun without having a grip the size of a 2x4.

I agree... a single stack Glock .45 would be super sweet, though.