Glock's new Model 21SF .45ACP

[towerclimber37]

I'd like to take you up on that...BUT, instead of a 1911, I'll use another of John MOSES Brownings' designs, if you don't mind...I'll use my old (this one minted in 1989) browning Hi power mk III since I don't have a 1911.

you're welcome to use what ever you want.

[towerclimber37]

I WOULD say...wait till Mark gets back off the water...he's a 1911 nut...but that wouldn't be fair as he was an instructor for quite a while and also was on the navy pistol/rifle team for quite a few years.

[Urse]

I don't expect to be the best shot..although I don't expect to be the worst either. I just figure it would be a good excuse to get together and shoot alot. I'll be using a Glock 34. Hopefully we can get a pretty good group together with as many guns as possible represented.

[towerclimber37]

Could this be that scarce promugulated idea of a statewide TGO get together???

[Cruel Hand Luke]

Where is the dirt and the mud? It's not a real test unless the guns are DIRTY. Even a Lorcin should work if it is not dropped in a puddle.... I want to hear how well some of these "innovative" pistols work when they are filthy.

Seriously guys, carry what you want to. If something came along demonstrably better then I'd use it. But there isn't. And for me, I know how to keep my finger off the trigger until I want it to go BANG, I know how to holster without looking and not shoot myself in the ass, I know how to read the manual and not shoot lead in it, I don't reload, and mine is a 9mm so it is probably the least problem prone of any caliber of Glock pistol. I scored 100% on the range qualification with that gun at the Rangemaster Instructor School-which FEW people have done. I have scored 100% all 4 times I have shot the FBI qual course with that gun(and not many agents can say they have EVER scored 100%-in fact they get their name on a plaque at Quantico when they do) , and I've won more matches with it than I can remember. I don't lose any sleep over whether my gun will work, put bullets where they need to go, or whether it will spontaneously explode.....But if those things concern you guys, by all means buy something else...no one is holding a gun to your head making you buy a Glock.

[molonlabetn]

I'd be inclined to take a piece of that too. I've been meaning to order another case of .357sig for the P239...

Time to organize a statewide TGO meet...

We probably ought to keep it friendly though, and everybody only pay for their own ammo. Dinner is a good wager... don't worry, I like Taco-Bell

[TGO David]

<French Accent> Zee gauntlet... she has been thrown! </French Accent>

[Marswolf]

I'll supply the ammo. I have a friend who does really hot reloads. I think I still have a box of them in 45 ACP. I'll have him do some in 40 S&W and 9x19 too.

My USP manual says to not use reloads, but they work fine. I think it's just a legal thing for H&K rather than a serious prohibition. Tell you what, I'll do two rounds with the USP for every one round through the Glock. Same with my Beretta 92SB that I've shot sub-gun rounds in. Of course there may only be one round through the Glock....

Where do we meet?

[Urse]

I'll supply the ammo. I have a friend who does really hot reloads. I think I still have a box of them in 45 ACP. I'll have him do some in 40 S&W and 9x19 too.

My USP manual says to not use reloads, but they work fine. I think it's just a legal thing for H&K rather than a serious prohibition. Tell you what, I'll do two rounds with the USP for every one round through the Glock. Same with my Beretta 92SB that I've shot sub-gun rounds in. Of course there may only be one round through the Glock....

Where do we meet?

I live in Middle Tennessee. I already have 1000 rounds of factory ammunition (I do not shoot reloads in my Glocks). Although I really wouldn't have a problem shooting 9mm reloads in my gun. IF I loaded my own. Do you want to make this reloaded ammo only? When and where?

[Marswolf]

(I do not shoot reloads in my Glocks)

I don't blame you!

[Urse]

[MexicanDragon]

What about different classes for different skill levels? Instructor vs. instructor, n00b vs n00b (1000 rounds would come close to DOUBLING what i've put through the two guns I've owned in the past 8 months)...

Just a thought...

**BRENT**

[molonlabetn]

I'd say a better way to do it would be graduated ranges at which the target is placed, based on skill level...

I believe that this is meant to wring out the pistols, however, not the shooters... so perhaps the accuracy comparison should be done from a rest?

[MexicanDragon]

Heh... from a rest would be fine. I have a Les Baer that has a 3" guarantee at 50 yards... sign me up!

**BRENT**

[towerclimber37]

Brent, is that a 1911 les baur?

do tell!

[Marswolf]

I suggest we put the shooters at each end of a 100 yard range with a target on their chest and make them shoot sub-gun rounds.

[Urse]

Everybody shoots offhand 7,15 and 25 yards. Any further than that and I will be using a rifle. Besides lets be realistic in most defensive situations unless you are getting shot at you are not going to be taking a 50 yard handgun shot. This is a test of reliability, functionality and accuracy. I am not opposed to benchresting the guns for an accurate gauge of inherent accuracy. But I feel that the majority of the rounds should be fired offhand. This will test succeptibility to limp wristing and other shooter related problems. We should shoot some strong hand only and some weak hand only. Remember this should be fun so let's keep that in perspective. I am serious about this so Mars, Tower, Molon, Tungsten(and anyone else) if you guys are, then when and where?

[Urse]

What about different classes for different skill levels? Instructor vs. instructor, n00b vs n00b (1000 rounds would come close to DOUBLING what i've put through the two guns I've owned in the past 8 months)...

Just a thought...

**BRENT**

If we do all that we might as well go to a IDPA, IPSC or USPSA. And just invade a match en masse.

[Marswolf]

I am serious about this so Mars, Tower, Molon, Tungsten(and anyone else) if you guys are, then when and where?

I'd love to get together and do some friendly shooting. 200+ miles may be a bit far.... Maybe we could do it at Phantom's place in Oak Ridge next month. I've even missed the past two shoots we've done 20 miles from me.

I'd probably use my old Beretta 92SB, since that is my most accurate handgun - in my hands. When you carry something for 20 years, it gets to be a friend and extension of your body. But it was frequently shot well in excess of 25 yards for defensive situations. But I have done a lot of defense in jungles.

But I've never suggested that Glocks can't be accurate. I only suggest that they are lacking in the area of design safety.

I have a friend who is semi-retired from law enforcement. LE is, you will note, one of the few areas in which I think Glocks are acceptable, if not just peachy. There are better choices for that application too. He's now a constable. Much better shot than I am. His G23 has become an extension of his body over the many years of use just as my Beretta 92 has for me. It was a good professional choice for him when he started with it. When we get together we frequently shoot at soda cans set on top of the 100 yard standards. He uses the G23 and I use the USP 40. We don't pick them off with every shot, but we get close enough that you wouldn't want to be holding the can in front of your chest. We've done the same thing with 1911s. Just have to aim higher.

BTW, as an aside, I saw a note posted by a military friend in the Philippines this morning. He said that last night one of the officers in the next barracks "almost lost his manhood to a glocking." They thought their perimeter had been breached. When they kicked down his door he was "standing there all pale and bewildered with his pants smoking in the crotch area." To be fair to Glock, that can happen with any handgun that you have to pull the trigger to field strip. That's why I don't carry any guns that have to be dry fired to field strip.

[MexicanDragon]

Brent, is that a 1911 les baur?

do tell!

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/showpost.php?p=19163&postcount=17

I went up to Hero-Gear one day... it well... you know... just fit.

That is all... for now... <g>

**BRENT**

[Urse]

Brent that is a VERY nice looking gun. Bring it along whenever/wherever we end up shooting. Look I do not want you guys to get the wrong idea and think this is an ego driven challenge. I Love shooting rifles,revolvers, pistols and black powder. I want this to be an opportunity to put faces to names and for TGO as a community to get together and shoot. If you don't want to shoot 1000 rounds thats fine. I however am going to(I shot 400 today). Mars I would love to do some fun shooting at long distances. However, 25 yards(for accuracy) is a good challenge for most handgun shooters. Oak Ridge is an option where? when? Logistically I realize this could be a pain in the ... for some people. Oh well any ideas?

[MexicanDragon]

@Urse, thanks for the compliment. I was going to get a Dan Wesson Pointman 7 or a Commander Bobtail, but saw this, and now I'm indebted to Hero-Gear (Joe) forever... or something like that. <g>

I prolly can't afford to shoot 1000 rounds (kids/food/bills > ammo... I know, the system is flawed, such is life), but although I usually shoot at 7-10yds, I always put at least one mag through either this or my old 1911 (High Standard Mil-Spec) at 23 yds (indoor range max @ my former local range). I usually saved the headshots for that task, and consistently would hit 4-5/7. Not bad for a beginner @ 23 yards, IMO.

The last time I took 'er to the range, I put a mag through @ the 50 yd rifle range (while we were talking to one of the guys there... about TGO, of course! <g>) and hit the target (it was a 25 yd rifle target, about the size of the chest on a B-27), 5 of 8 times, IIRC. It was done two handed.

I'm not as good of a shot as some of these Les Baer guys on the forums (a few post 50 yd targets, its ridiculous... looks like my 7 yd... ) But most of them use the Premier II with 1.5" guarantee. Mine, if you looked at the link, is set up as a carry/defensive weapon with the tactical package (rounded edges for carry), and fixed Tritium Night sights. Its a beast, and I love it.

OK, enough thread derailment... back to the subject... what was it, Glocks? Yeah, they don't fit my hand too well, the 1911 does...

**BRENT**

[towerclimber37]

That IS a nice pistol, brent!

Julie asked me what I wanted for muh birthday, next month, I told her I wanted a new browning Mk III, an argentine m 95 or a cz52 and 1000 rounds of ammo.

We'll see what I get.

[Marswolf]

Oak Ridge is an option where? when? Logistically I realize this could be a pain in the ... for some people.

See http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1653 for details. Phantom6 is the guy who sets it up. I never know till the last second if I can come. So far, the best I've been able to do is have barbecue with some of the TGO folks.