Went To Gun Store Today

[pop pop]

I was interested in looking at what they had in Pistols with a red dot already combined. Only found 2, one was a "Rose" with Lea Mccullick name attached to it. Supposedly she endorses the 9 Mm Rose. It had a red dot and was 1100.00 plus Tax. Also looked at a Springfield Armory Hellcat w/red dot for *800.00+. 

What is your thoughts on Red Dot sights? I have never purchased one. 

[Defender]

I changed over to a red dot on my EDC Sig I guess it was last year, then changed that to a green one, and now I have a holosun EPS carry mrs in green.  I’m sold on these things now. For up close and personal, you can still point and shoot, or with the right optic and gun you can co-witness with the gun sights as well if you’re red dot goes bad for  any reason. They take some adjustment in how you shoot, but these old eyes of mine are sure thankful I did this.the configuration I use on my EPS Carry MRS, is a dot with a circle around it and I love it.

[krunchnik]

I also have the Holosun EPS green 6MOA on my Sig P365-

I can't honestly think of a reason not to use one-

The first time I shot my Sig it had the Sig red dot from the factory-it was a epiphany-why was I not using these before now-

I have carried a 1911 kimber Ultra for most of the time I have had my permit-

I liked the dot so much it made me rethink my carry options-

 

[phiferran]

I bought a Shadow Systems XR920 and installed a Holosun 507 and it is great for my seasoned and experienced eyesight!!  I also bought a green dot for a Glock 19 and actually prefer the green dot due to my astigmatism.   I’ll put one on my Smith and Wesson Shield Plus soon (gotta get the gun fund replenished). 
 

I highly recommend red/green dot optics.   Like Defender said—it does take some adjusting and it took a lot of dry fire practice for me to get the presentation consistent. 

[BigK]

I put one on one on a .22 pistol and I still struggle finding the dot, but it's 100% my fault for lack of practice. It is MUCH easier for follow-up shots, but I pocket-carry. I can't EDC one unless I go back to belt holsters.

[10-Ring]

1 hour ago, BigK said:

I put one on one on a .22 pistol and I still struggle finding the dot, but it's 100% my fault for lack of practice. It is MUCH easier for follow-up shots, but I pocket-carry. I can't EDC one unless I go back to belt holsters.

I have one in particular that is troublesome to find the dot. But when they are working correctly I really like them. 

[JustEd]

Not sure if you are looking for a micro/compact or full size range gun.

Will share this from my experience.  Almost every pre -installed red dot I have seen if  lower in quality than Holosun , SIG, Vortex or other aftermarket red dots I have owned.  Is that important to you?  Depends on what the firearm is to be used for.  If just casual range use, then might consider a factory dot.  Otherwise I would pick the red dot first, then the gun.

btw,love the Sig P365 and Hellcat for carry.  Would never be happy with their supplied red dots though.

Hey peeps, it's just my opinion.  User experience and susceptibility to advertising  claimsmay alter one's perception.

Edited July 28 by JustEd

[JustEd]

14 hours ago, BigK said:

I put one on one on a .22 pistol and I still struggle finding the dot, but it's 100% my fault for lack of practice. It is MUCH easier for follow-up shots, but I pocket-carry. I can't EDC one unless I go back to belt holsters.

in my experience it is much more difficult to squire the red dot upon presentation if it is mounted high on the gun.  Most 22's add the ability to mount red dot as an afterthought.  In other words, they mount tooooo high.  Practice can compensate for this, but only I do so regularly.

[Thearmededucator]

23 hours ago, pop pop said:

I was interested in looking at what they had in Pistols with a red dot already combined. Only found 2, one was a "Rose" with Lea Mccullick name attached to it. Supposedly she endorses the 9 Mm Rose. It had a red dot and was 1100.00 plus Tax. Also looked at a Springfield Armory Hellcat w/red dot for *800.00+. 

What is your thoughts on Red Dot sights? I have never purchased one. 

I just got my first pistol mounted optic (Aimpoint ACRO) delivered, but don’t have it mounted yet, as I’m waiting on my slide to be delivered. 

I’ve also taken 2 red dot specific classes, an have done a lot of research for a couple years. It boils down to this (assuming the context is defensive use): 

1) Get a Quality dot (RMR, Holosun, ACRO) 

2) have it direct milled (no plates)

3) DONT Cowitness, this negates the Beni fit of the dot

4) your presentation (drawstroke) needs to be on point. A dot rewards a good presentation, and punishes a bad one. 

5) Dots make shot calling a LOT easier 

[chances R]

Will add that I have 2 AMeriglo Havens that each have a couple thousand rounds. Know of several others used as much.  Quality build and fully satisfied.  All used IDPA and USPSA.

[Moped]

On 7/26/2024 at 8:16 PM, pop pop said:

I was interested in looking at what they had in Pistols with a red dot already combined. Only found 2, one was a "Rose" with Lea Mccullick name attached to it. Supposedly she endorses the 9 Mm Rose. It had a red dot and was 1100.00 plus Tax. Also looked at a Springfield Armory Hellcat w/red dot for *800.00+. 

What is your thoughts on Red Dot sights? I have never purchased one. 

Don’t you already have a Ruger Max9? Why not buy a RDS or GDS for it and see how you like it.

[Nomad]

Not sure I would want one on a subcompact EDC.   I prefer deep carry.  Studies show the majority of self defense shots are within 7 yards.    I don't need a dot to make that kind of shot.   Just my $.02.

[Defender]

12 hours ago, Thearmededucator said:3) DONT Cowitness, this negates the Benifit of the dot

Agree.  But try to retain that capability in case the dot fails.  

[deerslayer]

12 hours ago, Thearmededucator said:

2) have it direct milled (no plates)

I haven't milled a gun yet, but one less failure point is good.  I always use thread locker on clean components and can read torque specs as well as anybody, but I have had several issues on different guns with dots or plates not staying put.  

 

12 hours ago, Thearmededucator said:

3) DONT Cowitness, this negates the Beni fit of the dot

A visible iron sight picture in the very bottom of the dot window is ok, but putting it higher where it is nearly on the same plane as the dot sight picture is idiotic.  I don't get why people do this - it's a huge distraction.  I also remove the fiber optic pipe on the front sight (if it's FO).  it's just another distraction.  

 

12 hours ago, Thearmededucator said:

4) your presentation (drawstroke) needs to be on point. A dot rewards a good presentation, and punishes a bad one. 

Definitely.  I see a lot of new or casual shooters getting advice that a dot will solve all their problems.  Dots are handy, but require some regular dry fire or live fire to maintain a needed index that isn't as critical with iron sights.  This gets exacerbated when the user carries a J-frame on Tuesday, a Glock on Thursday, and a 1911 on Saturday.  It really gets ugly when the casual shooter tries to shoot quickly with one hand.  Dots are not always as beneficial as advertised.  Somebody who doesn't want to practice occasionally may be better off with irons if some fast combat accuracy is suddenly necessary.  

 

 

Edited July 28 by deerslayer

[pop pop]

Moped yes, I have a Ruger Max 9. I pocket carry the pistol. If I affix a Red Dot to it is questionable if I can still pocket carry it. My thought is if I need to go to IWB carry I would choose one of my MP 9 MM 2.0's. They have slightly longer Brl and hold 15+1 rounds. From what everyone is saying the dots that come with most pistols are substandard or cheepies. I really like the MP's but are not able to pocket carry because of size. Even purchased the single stack MP 9 MM EZ and it is also too large for pocket carry, however very easy to rack the slide. This will be my arthritis choice if/when it gets much worse. 

[ianb]

With my eyes I'm a big fan of optics for any kind of distance. I use a lupold scope on my S&W .357 for white tail, a green dot on my Glock 40 for hogs. But for EDC if I'm far enough away to need optics, I'm planning on running! 

[Thearmededucator]

8 hours ago, Defender said:

 

Edited July 28 by Thearmededucator
Disregard

[ken_mays]

On 7/27/2024 at 11:11 AM, JustEd said:

Will share this from my experience.  Almost every pre -installed red dot I have seen if  lower in quality than Holosun , SIG, Vortex or other aftermarket red dots I have owned.  Is that important to you?  Depends on what the firearm is to be used for.  If just casual range use, then might consider a factory dot.  Otherwise I would pick the red dot first, then the gun.

I agree with the above -- a lot of factory installed red dots are just a way for manufacturers to move sub-par red dot sights.   There are a very few RDS that I will spend money on for serious use:  Trijicon and Holosun.   That's it.

Others may be adequate but I like the features and flexibility of the Holosun 507 (fullsize) and 507k (compact).   Many others like Leupold Deltapoint and Romeo may be OK but they have features that are annoying or not optimal IMO.

The only way I'd accept a 2nd or 3rd tier red dot is if I got it next to nothing and used it only on .22s or range-only guns.

 

[D B Cooper]

There is a place for factory dots, they usually come on the gun much cheaper than you could go buy one. If it's a range gun, plinker, etc a factory sight will be fine. Another case I'd consider a factory sight is if a person is moving to a red dot and wants to "try it out" . Don't mortgage the farm for an expensive dot if you have no experience with one. If you like it - and like the gun - you can always upgrade later.

Personally I run an enclosed Holosun EPS on my Shadow Systems CR920, no worries about dirt, lint, water, snowflakes, whatever messing up the dot when you need it most.

I've tested myself several times with - and without a dot, same targets, same distance. I acquire the target faster with a dot, and I'm more accurate with a dot. I learned on irons, and the transition took me some time, but it's worked out well.

[Moped]

5 hours ago, D B Cooper said:

There is a place for factory dots, they usually come on the gun much cheaper than you could go buy one. If it's a range gun, plinker, etc a factory sight will be fine. Another case I'd consider a factory sight is if a person is moving to a red dot and wants to "try it out" . Don't mortgage the farm for an expensive dot if you have no experience with one. If you like it - and like the gun - you can always upgrade later.

Personally I run an enclosed Holosun EPS on my Shadow Systems CR920, no worries about dirt, lint, water, snowflakes, whatever messing up the dot when you need it most.

I've tested myself several times with - and without a dot, same targets, same distance. I acquire the target faster with a dot, and I'm more accurate with a dot. I learned on irons, and the transition took me some time, but it's worked out well.

This right here! I bought my Ruger Max 9 with the CTS-1550 RDS to see if I liked it. I’ve had it several years now. I’ve had zero issues with it and I’ve never replaced the battery. The irons co-witness with the CTS-1550. I shoot the pistol with the RDS very well. I see zero reason to change it out. And I’m very happy with the setup. 

[JustEd]

They look pretty on a new gun and are often not much more than irons.

Know I can't explain it well and someone will always have a different opinion, however:

For me, red dots mess up my ability to point shoot as may be required in a self defense situation.

Red dots beat the heck out of irons for use on steel targets at the range or in competition.

While I have drilled with red dots, no longer would choose one for edc.  Unless its just for the look cool factor.

[deerslayer]

I have a lot of trigger time with dots over the past few years with four different platforms (Glock/2011/Walther/CZ75).  I have found that they offer two advantages:  they are better/faster/easier at distance (20+yards) and they can be handy in some low-light situations.  At typical handgun fighting distances, they offer no advantage and I think I am quicker with irons inside 10 yards, but I don't subscribe to the you-must-focus-on-the-front-sight train of thought.    

[pop pop]

Deerslayer, you hit the nail on the head. My use for handguns is only for self-defense. It is my worry that if I spend money for a good dot sight it really will be useless for me with considering mission. That is why I posted this thread. 

[deerslayer]

Dots are often marketed to old guys who can no longer focus on the front sight.  I would argue that they rarely need to. 

[Defender]

49 minutes ago, deerslayer said:

Dots are often marketed to old guys who can no longer focus on the front sight.  I would argue that they rarely need to. 

You are right, I think.  But there ARE situations where a little more distance shooting may be required and the dots come in handy then.