Bellevue Kroger

[bteague2]

I was in the Bellevue Kroger this morning, the one across from Harpeth Valley (Davidson County for non Nashville people). I like to open carry especially when I'm in Bellevue. And the manager of Kroger approached me and asked why I was carrying a gun in a store where alcohol is being sold, and that it was illegal. I replied that since Kroger sold alcohol for off premise consumption that I could carry in there. He asked me if that was right and I told him that it was. He accepted it and replied that someone had told him otherwise, but then he continued and asked me not to come back into the store when I was armed. He told me that I was scaring the costumers and some of his employees. I said yes sir and that it is his store.

I know that this wouldn't have happened if I had been carrying concealed but I'm a big believer in not babying people and I have nothing to hide. It's just frustrating and sad that people are almost scared of their own shadows...

[saintsfanbrian]

The only thing I would have said after that is, "Don't worry, I won't come back to this store at all."

[Guest GlocKingTN]

I would have said, what about the off-duty LEO's, are they not allowed to carry in here? Because if they aren't, and the store gets robbed, they would be up sh*t creek! Then I would have said, if you dont want me carrying in your store, then post it, correctly! Otherwise, I carry this for the protection of ME and MY FAMILY! And will continue to do so until I reach a place that it isnt allowed and/or posted!

Then I would have said, If it were you getting your store robbed, or a gun to your f*cking head, or your 5 year old daughter being raped by a thug, you would gladly accept me in this store! And anywhere else I desired!!!

Ok, Im gonna stop now, before I get really mad.......!

[SkWaShDeM]

Playing devils advocate, at least the manager was polite about his request not to carry in the store again. He could have been a **** and called the local PD to escort you off the property or something similarly insulting.

[wareagle]

Call the local "zone manager" and ask him if the policy is a store, zone, "KMA" or corporate level decision. I think it would be interesting to hear his response.

[Guest sermon8r]

click here and tell Kroger what you think

http://www.kroger.com/customercomments.htm

or call 1-866-221-4141 and thank them for the Manager politely telling you he doesent want your money in his store anymore......

[Guest GlocKingTN]

Playing devils advocate, at least the manager was polite about his request not to carry in the store again. He could have been a **** and called the local PD to escort you off the property or something similarly insulting.

This would probably have been his decision, had it been me! No laws were broken other than maybe trespassing! But I would have made my point, while being escorted off the property. Then smiled, and walked away!

[shaftbass]

I woulda dropped a deuce in the urinal.

[The Rabbi]

I assume you shop there because you like it and it is the best alternative for you. You made a choice to OC knowing it could result in your being asked not to come back and that's what happened. So now you have to find another store and hope history doesnt repeat itself or else you'll be getting your groceries at the BubbaMart.

OK. Your decision. You made whatever "point" you wanted to make. Hope it was worth it.

This is why I carry concealed for the most part.

[towerclimber37]

click here and tell Kroger what you think

http://www.kroger.com/customercomments.htm

or call 1-866-221-4141 and thank them for the Manager politely telling you he doesent want your money in his store anymore......

I think I'm going to call them and ask as well..and exactly like Sermon8r suggested!

nice!

[creeky]

I not sure emailing the manager, or calling him will do any good. Most things like this come down to "HR" canned policies. Not saying you shouldn't, but i don't think you will get the results you hope for. The CCW community is still a rather small (quiet) demographic.

On Open vs. Concealed Carry...

I have never understood the interest in open carry. I prefer mine to be concealed whenever possible. I am no expert in tactics, nor do I claim to be, but I have always been of that opinion that a concealed weapon can be more an advantage than an open one.

I realize that one opinion of "open carry" is that it can discourage any trouble. It has always seemed to me that if I was up to no good, the first thing I would do in a store is see who is the most viable threat. If someone is carring openly that would be the threat to deal with first. That could mean the bad guy could put two in your back and you never know what hit you. (Yes I agree you should have situational awareness at all times, but I don't fully think everyone can be 100% alert 100% of the time. I could be wrong.)

It just has seemed to me that if you don't look like a threat, than a bad guys attention will be focused on something else.

I do admit that a positive alert, assertive posture is needed to help deter a potential problem, I think creating a mindset of "Is he armed? Where is it?" is also a good tool to have.

Disclaimer:

I'm not knocking anyone that open carries! What you want to do is cool. In fact I may choose that mode one day myself. Just right now I am more comfortable with concealed. Also this post excludes tax, tags and financing. Dealer retains rebate, limited to stock on hand. Post not valid in RI, or CN.

[Guest Hyaloid]

Uhoh... here we go again!

snipped

On Open vs. Concealed Carry...

I have never understood the interest in open carry. I prefer mine to be concealed whenever possible. I am no expert in tactics, nor do I claim to be, but I have always been of that opinion that a concealed weapon can be more an advantage than an open one.

I have yet seen an actual encounter (non-LEO) where this has happened. Have you?

I realize that one opinion of "open carry" is that it can discourage any trouble. It has always seemed to me that if I was up to no good, the first thing I would do in a store is see who is the most viable threat. If someone is carring openly that would be the threat to deal with first.

Most criminals are cowards, and look for the easy score. If you have a sociopath bent on hell and destruction regardless of the outcome, then MAYBE they'd target you first... but again, I've never seen that occur to a citizen OCing.

That could mean the bad guy could put two in your back and you never know what hit you. (Yes I agree you should have situational awareness at all times, but I don't fully think everyone can be 100% alert 100% of the time. I could be wrong.)

Yeah, COULD happen... but never seen an example.

It just has seemed to me that if you don't look like a threat, than a bad guys attention will be focused on something else.

Some people may thnk that NOT looking like a threat is what gets you targeted to begin with...

I do admit that a positive alert, assertive posture is needed to help deter a potential problem, I think creating a mindset of "Is he armed? Where is it?" is also a good tool to have.

I have no doubt that not knowing whether a victim will be armed is a deterrent to crime. But how many people who are CCers and have a situation where a BG targets them or comes up to them, immediately uncover their weapon to act as a visual deterrent? Why not just start out OCing, and lose the transition!

Disclaimer:

I'm not knocking anyone that open carries! What you want to do is cool. In fact I may choose that mode one day myself. Just right now I am more comfortable with concealed. Also this post excludes tax, tags and financing. Dealer retains rebate, limited to stock on hand. Post not valid in RI, or CN.

I am glad to hear that. So many people look down on folks who decide to OC, yet claim to be great supporters of the 2nd A. I could care less how folks where their firearm, as long as it is safe and not pointed at me. I OC and I CC depending on my destination, my dress and my companions. Does OC bring attention? Occasionally. I wish MORE people OC'd so that it was considered "normal". If more people saw how many regular people carried a weapon while going about their daily activities, maybe the "sheep" among us wouldn't assume that all gun owners are ignorant hillbillies or SWAT team wannabies.

[creeky]

Uhoh... here we go again!

Sorry... not trying to open a can of worms.

I have yet seen an actual encounter (non-LEO) where this has happened. Have you?

No. I have not seen, nor read of any encounter like this. So you

do have a valid point.

Most criminals are cowards, and look for the easy score. If you have a sociopath bent on hell and destruction regardless of the outcome, then MAYBE they'd target you first... but again, I've never seen that occur to a citizen OCing.

I agree with you that most criminals are cowards. I have not seen

very many people carrying open myself. It could be just because of

my general location though.

"On someone putting two to the back..."

Yeah, COULD happen... but never seen an example.

I agree, I haven''t ever heard of this happening with opne carry.

"It just has seemed to me that if you don't look like a threat, than a bad guys attention will be focused on something else..."

Some people may think that NOT looking like a threat is what gets you targeted to begin with...

I agree with you. On the on onstart of an encounter I agree completely! In a situation where you have one "bad guy" and three citizens (one open carry) I rather have his attention focused more on the most obvious and realistic threat to him. The open carry guy. I'm not saying have a passive deminor, but if two guys look alert and assertive I would be paying more attention the the one who is carrying openly.

But how many people who are CCers and have a situation where a BG targets them or comes up to them, immediately uncover their weapon to act as a visual deterrent? Why not just start out OCing, and lose the transition!

Good point on the transition. Another thing to consider might be the surprise affect that it has... from sheep to wolf with the flick of the jacket. Then the BG has a completely new situation to deal with that he might not have planned on.

"I'm not knocking anyone that open carries! What you want to do is cool. In fact I may choose that mode one day myself."

I am glad to hear that. So many people look down on folks who decide to OC, yet claim to be great supporters of the 2nd A. I could care less how folks where their firearm, as long as it is safe and not pointed at me.

I like hearing other people's opinions and reasoning. What mode works for me today may not work for me tomorrow. I'm not dogmatic and like to form my own opinions in part by the advice and experience of others.

Always seeking a better way to do things. I try not to be closed minded.

*Couldn't figure out the quote thing just right.

[DMark]

.... I prefer mine to be concealed whenever possible. I am no expert in tactics, nor do I claim to be, but I have always been of that opinion that a concealed weapon can be more an advantage than an open one.....

I agree.

Unless I have all of my other battle buddies around me also doing the Open Carry deal (along with carrying our basic load & wearing PBA & other cool stuff) my tactial insight is to apply one of "Murphy's Rules of Combat" ie - Try to look unimportant.

Open Carry invites a simple "Shoot-Him-First" ROE for the Bad Guys.

However I do use it to my advantage when I note someone who is OC or printing badly. I observe who is watching the OC and rank them as possible threats.

[The Rabbi]

I am less concerned with criminals than with morons.

All it would take is one jerk with an attitude coming up to me saying "watchagonnado, man. Shoot me?"

It also changes how people perceive you, as the OP made clear.

And I don't know any professional trainers out there who advocate OC.

(And fwiw, I am planning on stopping in to that Kroger and OC'ing. If nothing else than just poking the manager in the eye with it. I never shop there anyway. Remember what Arlo Guthrie sang about singing a bar of Alice's Restaurant?)

[Marswolf]

Rabbi, half the people here weren't born when Alice's Restaurant Massacre was first sung.

http://www.arlo.net/resources/lyrics/alices.shtml

And friends, somewhere in Washington enshrined in some little folder, is a

study in black and white of my fingerprints. And the only reason I'm

singing you this song now is cause you may know somebody in a similar

situation, or you may be in a similar situation, and if your in a

situation like that there's only one thing you can do and that's walk into

the shrink wherever you are ,just walk in say "Shrink, You can get

anything you want, at Alice's restaurant.". And walk out. You know, if

one person, just one person does it they may think he's really sick and

they won't take him. And if two people, two people do it, in harmony,

they may think they're both f.a.g.g.o.t.s [stupid PC software cop made me spell it out] and they won't take either of them.

And three people do it, three, can you imagine, three people walking in

singin a bar of Alice's Restaurant and walking out. They may think it's an

organization. And can you, can you imagine fifty people a day,I said

fifty people a day walking in singin a bar of Alice's Restaurant and

walking out. And friends they may thinks it's a movement.

[saintsfanbrian]

Rock 103 used to play the entire thing on Thanksgiving day at noon. I don't think they do anymore. It has been years since I have heard it, but I wanna kill!!!! (not really, that is a line from the song too!!!)

[The Rabbi]

I knew someone would know the reference.

Yes, if they daily are kicking out customers for OC they will sometime get the idea that maybe there's something to this.

[Marswolf]

I have the 1997 Thanksgiving version of the Alice's Restaurant Concert I recorded and put on disk.

Back to Kroger. I OC all the time in Kroger around here. Never a discouraging word on my home range.

[saintsfanbrian]

The most I usually have is the grip of the gun sticking up out of my waist band and I have yet to get a dirty look.

[Guest jcoyle6]

Well I just tried out OC at that particular Kroger...

I went there with the intention of cashing a check from work. I entered and asked the two button up and tie wearing Managers if there was a Suntrust at this Kroger. They both looked at me, as I held my check in my hand (check total under $100 which they saw) and said 'No, they didn't cash corporate checks at that location." I was extremely polite and they were helpful enough in explainning to me that there was a Suntrust about 5 minutes down the road. . . . All while we stood under the sign that points to the Customer Service sign which has Check Cashed under one of its headings.

Now I have cashed dozens of checks at Kroger and have never been declined the opportunity to do business. Of course I do not normally OC I prefer CC, but in an effort to test this, I tried it out.

[bteague2]

Rabbi, I wasn't trying to make a point. If I wanted to make a point I'd wear one of those shirts with something "witty" written on it or on a street corner downtown with a sign supporting the latest protesting trend.

I open carry because I am comfortable with it and like I said I have nothing to hide. I don't mind people staring at me, I know they probably haven't seen a gun (besides police officers or tv shows). I'll more then happily answer any questions people ask which is why at first I was glad I could correct the manager's gun law knowledge.

But it is completely opinion based, and yes it was worth it because now I know what kind of store that Kroger is and there is a Publix that just opened right across the street where nobody has ever said anything to me before. So it is Kroger's loss not mine.

-Barrett

[Mike.357]

Manager politely telling you he doesent want your money in his store anymore

To be fair he did not say that, just did not want the gun. That request was well within his right. Just as we all have a right to choose not to go there or to go there unarmed. The manager could have gone the jerk route and called the local gestapo.

I would suggest to the manager that he learn the laws he refers to before coming to me expressing false information. I also would have asked which customers were scared.

I also would have left my buggy sitting and walked out.

This is why I carry concealed for the most part.

+1 Rabbi

I shop at an IGA a few minutes from the house, I know the manager just from my five years of being a customer, he is always very nice. But I would hate to lose going to that store as it is very convenient.

I woulda dropped a deuce in the urinal.

How about an upper decker instead ? Yikes

BT, I am probably wrong but do you open carry in hopes of having a confrontation?

I firmly believe here in Knoxville open carrying is going to result in a slam to the ground and some sort of criminal charge. No way would I OC. Heck you get arrested for wearing a holster openly here. Guns do not matter in it.

[Guest Hyaloid]

BT, I am probably wrong but do you open carry in hopes of having a confrontation?

Do you carry a gun just in the hopes that you get to shoot someone?

I firmly believe here in Knoxville open carrying is going to result in a slam to the ground and some sort of criminal charge. No way would I OC. Heck you get arrested for wearing a holster openly here. Guns do not matter in it.

Do you have any articles or citations to back up that claim? I have NEVER heard of anyone being arrested for a holster, and I GUARANTEE you there would be a LARGE lawsuit if I were arrested for wearing a holster.

I had a Washington county deputy as a patient not long ago, and I asked if his department received any training on OC and its legality. his response was that if you had a holster, the deputy may ask for a permit if anything, but mostly would let you be. He stated that they would, correctly, assume you were law abiding. If you were Mexican carrying, you'd probably get scrutinized alot more.

Thank God I live in a sane part of TN.

[Guest Boomhower]

Yeah Mike, where's your proof?........you've already opened up the "can o worms" now. This should get interesting.