Thoughts on NRA, FPC, GOA, etc

[JohnSutton1980]

Howdy fellers and ladies. Just wanted to see, if like normal, my opinion is on the fringe or if I may be closer to reality now. 
my issue is with good, hard working folks donating money to help fight the crazies from restricting things that if we really ARE following the constitution , are said NOT to be infringed. 

First off is the long tenured NRA. ALWAYS happens.  When no one is looking, someone always gets caught with their hand in the cookie jar. Never fails. Although we expect them to operate within reason, lobby for the needs of its members, and be an honest person with upstanding integrity. We know that when anyone is paid millions to do what they would do for free, they always want more. Don’t matter what it is. EVERY single time. Not that it has finally happened to the NRA but, it seems to be the first time there was wide spread knowledge about it. To me seems like ROT. Needs to be cut completely out. ALL of it and start over. Seems as crooked as Hillary’s email server or Orange mans accounting books. Can’t be fixed needs total destruction, lessons learned and rebuilt totally if at all relevant anymore. With the likes of GOA and FPC (who are actually doing the things NRA is supposed to) why is there a need for a corrupt NRA anymore?

I have failed to renew my membership for this reason. My donations have started to go to GOA and FPC.  Although it’s hard to completely entrust because of the corruption seen at the NRA. I’m guessing it will be there for a while. 
If the GOA was able to get so many things accomplished with small group of donators, can you imagine if they had equal backing as the NRA?  I honestly don’t remember the last time the NRA was relevant but kept renewing my membership because that’s what we do in my family. I guess with all the crazies, window lickers, tree huggers, and other democrats, to me our rights have become more important to defend. I would rather it be defended by honest people. 
Just my rant!! Am I on the fringe again? Too much truth?

[DHF]

I am still a member of the NRA but that is probably only because I joined at a lifetime level quite a while ago. 

I currently support the Tennessee Firearms Association (membership and automatic monthly contribution, plus some) as they are the most important organization we have here in TN regarding our rights.  Everyone on this forum should be a member and contributing whenever possible, is my strong opinion on them.  We are lucky we have them.

I also support Gun Owners of America and the Firearms Policy Coalition as you do as well as The Second Amendment Foundation.  I find them very relevant, having worked with the TFA, and actually fighting hard for our rights.

[Whisper]

GOA spends most of its money on salaries and, last time I looked, there were lots of family members employed there.  Little money actually goes to lobbying.  FPC and SAF actually seem to do some things, and I give modestly to them.  

I've been an NRA Life Member since the 1970s and gave regularly to them until I realized that Wayne and his criminal cronies were looting the store.  I am still a member, but I won't give another dime until all the old board members are gone and some new bylaws are put in place to prevent the type of corruption that Wayne established as a general operating principle.

I always tell people to give to the state RKBA organization if they have one that's decent.  TN and NC are good examples of states with effective freedom lobbies.

Cheers,

Whisper

[Omega]

2 minutes ago, Whisper said:

GOA spends most of its money on salaries and, last time I looked, there were lots of family members employed there.  Little money actually goes to lobbying.  FPC and SAF actually seem to do some things, and I give modestly to them.  

I've been an NRA Life Member since the 1970s and gave regularly to them until I realized that Wayne and his criminal cronies were looting the store.  I am still a member, but I won't give another dime until all the old board members are gone and some new bylaws are put in place to prevent the type of corruption that Wayne established as a general operating principle.

I always tell people to give to the state RKBA organization if they have one that's decent.  TN and NC are good examples of states with effective freedom lobbies.

Cheers,

Whisper

Any links to the GOA comment?  I see a few lawsuits they are involved in so I am doing life membership, I'd be interested in any mishandling of funds.

[Whisper]

I don't know that they have mishandled funds.  Their Form 990s (essentially their tax return) show that they spend zero money per year on lobbying.  The NRA spent $4.92 million on lobbying just in 2021 (latest data available).  But GOA doesn't really claim to be a lobbying organization.  

In 2022, GOA's total expenses were $10,698,495, and 16.2% of ($1,738,156) that went to salaries.

Looking up their Form 990s year to year is a tedious task, but you can hit the high points on Pro Publica (Gun Owners Of America Inc - Nonprofit Explorer - ProPublica).

Cheers,

Whisper

[JohnSutton1980]

51 minutes ago, Whisper said:

I don't know that they have mishandled funds.  Their Form 990s (essentially their tax return) show that they spend zero money per year on lobbying.  The NRA spent $4.92 million on lobbying just in 2021 (latest data available).  But GOA doesn't really claim to be a lobbying organization.  

In 2022, GOA's total expenses were $10,698,495, and 16.2% of ($1,738,156) that went to salaries.

Looking up their Form 990s year to year is a tedious task, but you can hit the high points on Pro Publica (Gun Owners Of America Inc - Nonprofit Explorer - ProPublica).

Cheers,

Whisper

Let me first say that I’m simple. I’m not hyper intelligent. I went in the Army for god sakes! The only savior for me is that I didn’t go into the Marine Corps!!

I don’t know a whole lot about salaries etc. I don’t think that 16% of income is bad for salary. Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe there is more to it. Just don’t seem a crazy amount. I would still rather have people that would do the job for free but with bills as we all have, I would expect people that are doing “company” work 24/7 to be able to pay those bills. Not talking about NRA level yachts but a median level of salary. We all know it’s more than that! I would be interested in learning more about family connections as far as salaries in the GOA. 

[Omega]

Yea going to have to agree with @JohnSutton1980, it doesn't look too much out of the question.  

 

 

Expenses

$10.7M (2022)  Much of this is probably legal expenses when they sue the .gov, which they choose to do instead of lobbying. 

Compensation

Key Employees and Officers	Compensation	Related	Other
John Velleco (Executive V P)	$128,791	$36,201	$39,669
Tim Macy (Chairman)	$126,000	$0	$0
Erich Pratt (Senior V P)	$107,167	$35,000	$49,228
Gerald Ognibene (Director)	$0	$0	$0
Samuel A Paredes (Secretary/Treasurer)	$0	$6,000	$0

 

Now, if they are hiring family members, that do not qualify or do not work the job, that is an issue, but if they are actively working their jobs, yea don't know that I care.

[monkeylizard]

+1 to TFA and FPC. I've supported GOA in the past and would do so again.

I'm also a life member of NRA but don't send them any money. If these new reformers on the board can get things cleaned up, we'll see. NRA's main purpose right now is to be the big elephant in the room taking the heat from the anti-gunners while more effective and nimble groups like FPC and GOA fly under the radar get the work done.

Edited May 10 by monkeylizard

[JohnSutton1980]

1 hour ago, monkeylizard said:

+1 to TFA and FPC. I've supported GOA in the past and would do so again.

I'm also a life member of NRA but don't send them any money. If these new reformers on the board can get things cleaned up, we'll see. NRA's main purpose right now is to be the big elephant in the room taking the heat from the anti-gunners while more effective and nimble groups like FPC and GOA fly under the radar get the work done.

I had not  thought of it that way. At the very least they do still serve a purpose if that is the goal. Although seems to be an awful big organization to be a decoy. I would also think there has to be a better way to use that big of an organization. As small at GOA is they seem to be getting stuff done.  Sure would be nice if the NRA of the 70s and 80s was still around. They was getting stuff done then too. Except the machine gun ban. We won’t count that. 

[Grayfox54]

SAF and FPC are litigators. They fight in the courts where laws are  challenged or upheld. These groups are quietly fighting hard for our rights. Most people never hear about them until they make a major case. They fly under the radar, but hit hard. 

GOA is what the NRA should be. They're fighting in Congress and state legislatures every day. Not as big as the NRA, but they're fighting hard for us. I, too, wish they were bigger and had more clout. 

TFA is our home grown pro-2nd organization. I fully support them and their efforts. 

The NRA has had serious problems for many years. But Wayne is gone and there are a few new reform members on the board now. However, the board is still full of the old guard sleeze bags who only care about themselves.  Gonna have to see how this plays out. 

However, as pointed out, the NRA is the big kid on the block. Even people who have zero interest in firearms know who they are. Right now they serve as the anti's whipping boy and divert attention from the real pro-gun groups. They're our useful idiots. So let them be. I do renew my membership as needed because a loss of membership makes them look weak and the antis will try to capitalize on that. I pay my dues, but not one cent more. 

Just for the record, I am a member of all these groups and throw in a couple of extra bucks now and then to support the fight. 

Edited May 10 by Grayfox54

[Whisper]

17 hours ago, Grayfox54 said:

GOA is what the NRA should be. They're fighting in Congress and state legislatures every day. Not as big as the NRA, but they're fighting hard for us. I, too, wish they were bigger and had more clout. 

I'd like for someone from TFA to weigh in on this.  I'm a state government retiree who attended legislative session every year I was employed, and I never saw or heard of a GOA rep there.  I saw several from the NRA (some were problematic, but they were there).  Does the GOA in fact attend our General Assembly meetings?

[gun sane]

Four gun groups were instrumental in helping the Texas Attorney General get a restraining order against an ATF rule and protect private sales of firearms until next month.  They are the Gun Owners of America, Inc. (“GOA”), the Gun Owners Foundation (“GOF”), the Tennessee Firearms Association (“TFA”) , and the Virginia Citizens Defense League (“VCDL”). 

Attorney General Ken Paxton Secures Temporary Restraining Order Against Biden Administration, Stopping Unlawful ATF Rule from Taking Effect | Office of the Attorney General (texasattorneygeneral.gov)

[QuackerSmacker]

So where, oh where, was the NRA on this one?

Edited May 20 by QuackerSmacker
spelling

[Grayfox54]

For years now the NRA has been sitting on their butts. A new restriction is proposed and they make a public statement denouncing it. Then they do nothing while other pro-2nd organizations actually do the fighting. If our side wins, they're the first to jump up and claim credit. 

The pistol brace ban is a glaring example. They never even filled a suit until it was a sure thing that we were going to win. Then, when it was struck down, the NRA was all over the news screaming "See what we did!".  

Just today I got a call from NRA about some new threat or another (Fund raising actually  ). I cut the guy off and asked him if they were actually going to do anything about it. He paused not knowing what to say, so then I gave him an ear full! 

 

[Garufa]

The NRA is too wrapped up in defending it’s own legal existence, reserving money for Trump, and ensuring that the higher ups are taken care of for life (along with their children, granchildren, and so on) to be of any use fighting any anti-2a matters.

[DHF]

This is another reason I support the TFA, GOA, FPC, 2nd Amendment Foundation.  They are fighting the fight and I need to support that but they are also carving us out exemptions/protections while the battle moves on.

Federal Court in Texas issues temporary restraining order against ATF to prohibit its enforcement of the "engaged in business" rule against members of TFA, GOA, GOF, VCDL and others.

https://tennesseefirearms.com/2024/05/federal-court-enjoins-atf-engaged-in-business-rule/

This is not a national injunction so citizens of Tennessee who are not members of TFA, VCDL, GOA or GOF are not protected by this injunction.

Edited May 20 by DHF

[gun sane]

The best man the NRA could find to take the helm is Bob Barr.

Bob Barr elected to lead NRA - Washington Examiner

 

Edited May 22 by gun sane

[Rainsford]

If you were to join TFA or GOA which would it be?

[DHF]

6 minutes ago, Rainsford said:

If you were to join TFA or GOA which would it be?

If I could only do one, it would be the TFA without question. John and the crew work their asses off for us and they are in our yard. ANY one who is even aware of this site and lives in TN should be a member of the TFA and making regular contributions, if possible. 

[Rainsford]

1 minute ago, DHF said:

If I could only do one, it would be the TFA without question. John and the crew work their asses off for us and they are in our yard. ANY one who is even aware of this site and lives in TN should be a member of the TFA and making regular contributions, if possible. 

Thanks! Just joined.

[BKL]

I'm a life member of the GOA and the NRA, I have been helping to support the SAF for the past few years. I'll probably go the life membership route with the SAF as well. 

[Defender]

Im a life member of the NRA but still disappointed in them.  Hopefully they will improve with new board.  Also a member of GOA and TFA.  Of the 3, I try to support TFA as much as I can, as like was mentioned above, they are advocating for us here in Tennessee.

[Capbyrd]

On 5/22/2024 at 1:33 PM, Rainsford said:

If you were to join TFA or GOA which would it be?

GOA easily.  TFA is fine and the local fight is great.   But I believe that the national fight is much more important and needs more attention. 

Personally, I'd like to see an organization pop up that dedicates itself solely to attacking the ATF and NFA.  Everything that has happened recently has been reactive and we need a group being more proactive.  

 

[Worriedman]

On 5/9/2024 at 8:18 PM, Whisper said:

I don't know that they have mishandled funds.  Their Form 990s (essentially their tax return) show that they spend zero money per year on lobbying.  The NRA spent $4.92 million on lobbying just in 2021 (latest data available).  But GOA doesn't really claim to be a lobbying organization.  

In 2022, GOA's total expenses were $10,698,495, and 16.2% of ($1,738,156) that went to salaries.

Looking up their Form 990s year to year is a tedious task, but you can hit the high points on Pro Publica (Gun Owners Of America Inc - Nonprofit Explorer - ProPublica).

Cheers,

Whisper

The NRA hired Aaron Luper as their lobbyist in Tennessee in the 90's, she was a dyed in the wool Democrat that donated money to Ralph Northam,  They then hire a member of Bill Lee's staff, who had never been a member of the NRA and was not an advocate for the 2nd.  

This last young man (Kelby Seanor) lasted two years and was a fireball ala Darren LaSorte he got moved up and i have no idea what we will wind up with.  Seanor stood his ground as much as Washington would let him and hopefully that portends better things for us all, but lobbying is buying access.  We are better off suing for gains than trying to elect enough people to change the metric.

It takes dollars to put up suits and win them.  Lawyers are not cheap and doing the research and writing the briefs that will sway a judge or panel is expensive.  If every person who buys a hunting license in Tennessee (728,759) would donate the cost of one box of ammo to our Foundation we would have over $10million to work with.  Per case cost is $150K more or less, and. I am scrapping and begging to get enough in the bank for one per year.  GOA helps by allowing us to get their staff attorneys to help write briefs, more than I can say for any of the other organizations.

I donate to SAF (Life Member) and FPC (won the 18 year old's law suit in Beeler) and work gratus for TFA and have for the last 25 years.

If the latest ATF run at your rights does not scare you, you have soft spots in your head...

Edited June 12 by Worriedman

[Pain103]

@Worriedman Is TFA using funds for the suit for the Covington writings? I was seriously thinking about joining TFA because I do think our 2nd Amendment right needs qualified people to help protect it in the courtroom, but that suit has absolutely nothing to do with gun rights, so made me think money was being wasted. I have no inside information and if you can explain it to me that makes sense I would probably reconsider.