House vote will allow handguns in parks

[Guest johnnyo]

House vote will allow handguns in parks

The Associated Press

Originally published: April 21. 2009 3:01AM

Last modified: April 21. 2009 2:25AM

NASHVILLE -- Tennesseans with state-issued permits to carry loaded handguns in public would be able to bring their weapons into all state parks and some local parks under bills passed Monday in the House.

The chamber voted 71-22 to approve the measure sponsored by Rep. Frank Niceley to require all state parks to allow permit holders to carry their weapons there.

Both Blount County Reps. Joe McCord and Bob Ramsey voted for the bill.

The bill is opposed by the state Environment and Conservation Department, which operates state parks. Commissioner Jim Fyke testified to a House committee earlier in the session that there have been only 21 reported crimes against the more than 100 million visitors to state parks during the past three years.

But supporters said they would feel safer if they could bring guns. Rep. Matthew Hill, R-Jonesborough, said the proposal would make him feel safer, especially "as the father of a young child who's going to be utilizing the state parks as it starts to warm up."

Rep. Jimmy Naifeh of Covington was one of the 22 Democrats who voted against the guns in state parks bill. He said he worried that handgun permit holders would decide to set up makeshift targets to shoot at.

"My concern is what happens to the ricochet? I've been around a whole lot of guns all my life, and I know what happens with them," he told reporters after the vote. "I have a real concern about people taking their guns to these parks and (there are) folks with guns there."

The separate measure to authorize local governments to decided where to allow guns in public parks passed on a 77-14 vote. Under the measure sponsored by Rep. Harry Tindell, D-Knoxville, officials could decide to allow handguns in some areas but not others.

"What local governments will have the ability to do is to decide which, if any, of their parks they would like to allow handgun carry permit holders to possess their weapons," Tindell said after the House floor session.

"This is not an open season for all citizens to carry guns in parks, it's not an open season to shoot your gun in parks," he said.

Tindell said it's unclear how many of the state's 450 municipal or county governments would enact laws to allow guns to be carried in their parks, greenways, ballfields or playgrounds.

I think you'll see quite a mix of those that opt in or opt out," he said.

The companion bills to both measures are awaiting votes in the Senate Judiciary Committee.

Thumbprint measure

Also Monday, the House sent a proposal to end a requirement for Tennessee firearms dealers to take the thumbprints of people buying guns to the governor.

The chamber voted 89-5 to agree with Senate changes to the bill sponsored by House Republican Caucus Leader Glen Casada of Franklin.

Casada has cited Tennessee Bureau of Investigation information that the agency only once asked for a thumbprint from the 2.3 million guns sold since the law went into effect in 1998. And he said that print was smudged and unusable.

Under the revised version, gun dealers could run criminal background checks through any method stipulated by the TBI and not just by phone.

Gov. Phil Bredesen has said he will carefully review all gun bills before deciding whether to sign or veto them.

Read HB0716 and HB0960 at: http://www.capitol.tn.gov

source: House vote will allow handguns in parks

[Guest TEBISH]

Rep. Jimmy Naifeh of Covington was one of the 22 Democrats who voted against the guns in state parks bill. He said he worried that handgun permit holders would decide to set up makeshift targets to shoot at.

I hate text language - but OMG.

[Guest bkelm18]

I literally do not understand how people think like Naifeh. It hurts my head to think that there are people that stupid in today's world. And to think, people keep electing him, so that just shows that there are even more stupid people out there.

[waynesan]

I don't think Naifeh is nearly as dumb as a lot of folks seem to think he is. No one could really be as stupid as he sounded yesterday during the House session.

When he stood up to ask Niceley some questions about the bill he asked him if it would be a good idea to have shooting ranges in the State Parks where people could target practice. Niceley should have stopped him right there and told him that such a thing has absolutely nothing to do with HB0716, but he didn't. He took the bait and told Naifeh that it would be a good idea and probably would raise some money for the State to allow that kind of thing. Well Naifeh took that soundbite and ran with it and told the chamber that now you may be out at a State Park with your kids and someone may decide to set up a tin can and start target practicing. He went on to explain that he "knows what a ricochet can do."

In other words, Naifeh knew that this scenario that he described was a canard from his own imagination and had nothing to do with the bill. But it gave him an opportunity to stand up for the people that put him in office and will no doubt do so again. He is a lot of things, but "dumb" is not one.

He knows how to play the political system and he will do anything he can to do so.

[TGO David]

Naifeh isn't an idiot... he's just a crafty SOB who knows how to push the media's buttons and use them for his agendas. Tennessee will be better once he's completely out of politics; which likely isn't going to happen until he's kicked the oxygen habit.

[Guest bkelm18]

Oh I know he's not an idiot by the definition of the word, but the manner he presents himself and the fact that he is obviously against popular opinion lends himself to it.

[Oh Shoot]

Unless the senate can at least make it "opt out" for local parks, I hope the whole bill fails...

Sorry if it means no legal state park carry, but the local park carry affects more people who NEED to carry there.

Including me.

They pass this bill, and there won't be any local park carry forever.

- OS

[Guest SUNTZU]

Unless the senate can at least make it "opt out" for local parks, I hope the whole bill fails...

Sorry if it means no legal state park carry, but the local park carry affects more people who NEED to carry there.

Including me.

They pass this bill, and there won't be any local park carry forever.

- OS

That goes against every principle of these united cities of Tennessee, OhShoot.

[Guest MediaBuster]

Naifeh isn't dumb.. He just thinks you are, & want's everyone else to believe that. He's a crafty evil man..

[Fallguy]

Unless the senate can at least make it "opt out" for local parks, I hope the whole bill fails...

Sorry if it means no legal state park carry, but the local park carry affects more people who NEED to carry there.

Including me.

They pass this bill, and there won't be any local park carry forever.

- OS

State parks and local parks are two different bills.

[Oh Shoot]

State parks and local parks are two different bills.

Oh, okay... didn't know they were separated, thanks as always for clarification, FG.

Then I hope the local parks one fails...it'll be worse than it is now.

- OS

[Oh Shoot]

That goes against every principle of these united cities of Tennessee, OhShoot.

Maybe some states will secede from the union, and some cities will secede from the states.

If we're going to have total social breakdown, maybe we revert all the way back to Greek and Roman city/states.

I'm glad Memphis ain't next door.

- OS

[Fallguy]

Oh, okay... didn't know they were separated, thanks as always for clarification, FG.

Then I hope the local parks one fails...it'll be worse than it is now.

- OS

I'm really torn, but I'm afraid I mostly agree with you.

I would hope that at least some local goverments would allow it. But then there would be a such mess as to knowing which parks in which counties and cities allowed and which didn't and so on.

[Oh Shoot]

...

I would hope that at least some local goverments would allow it....

I'd bet most of the farm that no sizable municipalities would ever allow it.

Maybe if it got on a referendum ballot, but it would almost certainly always fail then, too.

- OS

[Guest Jamie]

Rep. Jimmy Naifeh of Covington was one of the 22 Democrats who voted against the guns in state parks bill. He said he worried that handgun permit holders would decide to set up makeshift targets to shoot at.

"My concern is what happens to the ricochet? I've been around a whole lot of guns all my life, and I know what happens with them," he told reporters after the vote. "I have a real concern about people taking their guns to these parks and (there are) folks with guns there."

Jimmy better stay out of Henry Horton State park then, 'cause there's people there with shotguns.

( H.H. has a nice skeet range. Shot a few rounds there with my brother-in-law, a long while back. )

Edited April 21, 2009 by Jamie
Was in a hurry and forgot the quote tags.

[Guest SUNTZU]

"I have a real concern about people taking their guns to these parks

Is this HCP holders or criminals?

and (there are) folks with guns there."

Or is this HCP holders or criminals?

Sounds like Darth Naifeh understands that there are going to be criminals with guns there, and that HCP holders shouldn't take their guns. That's one way to keep half the guns from possibly being fired.

[Guest HunterH]

So as I folow this thread, I am left confused about something. At this point, do local parks allow carry unless they enact laws to prevent it? Are their posting at parks that tell us they are are not alllowed if they have the option? Or have local parks not be cleared for carry at all? I know things are good in state parks, but I go to city parks in FRanklin (williamson county) all the time with my baby girl and wife and want the same opportunity to protect them I would anywhere else.

THanks in advance for the feedack!!

Hunter

[Oh Shoot]

So as I folow this thread, I am left confused about something. At this point, do local parks allow carry unless they enact laws to prevent it? Are their posting at parks that tell us they are are not alllowed if they have the option? Or have local parks not be cleared for carry at all? I know things are good in state parks, but I go to city parks in FRanklin (williamson county) all the time with my baby girl and wife and want the same opportunity to protect them I would anywhere else.

THanks in advance for the feedack!!

Hunter

All city, county, and state parks are off limits per existing statute.

Technically, can't carry a "prohibited" weapon.

The definition for that doesn't include firearms.

The TN AG has issued opinion that it does, though.

- OS

[Fallguy]

So as I folow this thread, I am left confused about something. At this point, do local parks allow carry unless they enact laws to prevent it? Are their posting at parks that tell us they are are not alllowed if they have the option? Or have local parks not be cleared for carry at all? I know things are good in state parks, but I go to city parks in FRanklin (williamson county) all the time with my baby girl and wife and want the same opportunity to protect them I would anywhere else.

THanks in advance for the feedack!!

Hunter

As OS said, current law prohibits carry in any park in the state. Current law actually says a list of prohibited weapons in 39-17-1302(a) is what is prevented. But again as OS said the AG has issued two opinions that says firearms, including handguns by those with a HCP are prohibited as well.

Current law says parks must post, but right after that it says they can exempt themselves from posting by resolution.

The bill that would allow carry in state parks is progressing and has passed the house. However it leaves in place any current signs against carry.

The bill on local parks that would creates a new section of T.C.A. (39-17-1313) and specifically prohibits firearms instead of prohibited weapons. The bill would leave it illegal by default to carry in local parks. A local government could choose to "opt in" to allow carry in a park or just part of park.

The bill would leave the sign requirements the same (post, but can exempt) if carry is not allowed in the park at all or if it is allowed in all of the park. However if carry is allowed in some parts of a local park, but not others, then they would have to post signs stating where carry was allowed and where it wasn't.

A lot of this comes from a state law that says if the state "mandates" something for local governments to do the state must provide the funding for them to do it. So if the state gave local governments no choice about posting they would have to provide the money for posting signs or removing signs. Even this way if they have to post because of allowing carry in just part of the park.....it is something they "chose" to do (opt in). so the expense is up to the local government to cover.

In fact...money is why even on the state park bill they are keeping current signs. Otherwise they say it would take over $32,000 to remove/replace/edit current signs in state parks.

[mousegunner]

Everyone should go and VOTE in this poll....

Guns-in-parks duel could shoot down bill : Mid-South : Memphis Commercial Appeal

[cadillacdude1975]

maybe if someone DID decide to target shoot in a state park, maybe Naifeh would be on the other end of that ricochet. that would help kick the oxygen habit wouldnt it? lol

[Guest SomeGuy]

Well folks, if you want good parks carry, here is how we do it. Straight from the TFA news-letter, have you sent your e-mails/phone calls yet?

Senate Judiciary Committee -- Wednesday at 3:30 pm -- LP 12

MEMBERS: Chair Beavers ®, Vice Chair Jackson (D), Secretary Overbey ®, Black ®, Bunch ®, Faulk ®, Kyle (D), Marrero (D), Stanley ®. SB 1518

Beavers

CRIMINAL LAW: Handgun carry permit holders to carry in parks. Authorizes people with handgun carry permits to possess firearms in parks owned by state, local, or federal governments. AMENDMENT: House amendment 1, as amended, deletes state parks from the bill's provisions. Makes it permissive for a local government to allow firearms to be possessed in local parks. A majority vote of the local governing body would be required. Local governments would be able to decide in which local parks or specific areas of local parks, firearm possession would be allowed. Allows the possession of firearms in state parks even if the park is operated by a local government pursuant to a state/local agreement. (HOUSE: HB 0960, Tindell; House 04/20/2009 passed with amendment 1.) FISCAL NOTE: Dated: March 17, 2009 On February 23, 2009, we issued a fiscal note indicating a Minimal impact on state expenditures. Based upon further review and additional information provided by the Department of Environment and Conservation (TDEC), the fiscal impact of this bill is as follows: (CORRECTED) Increase state expenditures - $38,200/one-time Increase local expenditures - exceeds $50,000/one-time* .

TFA SUPPORTS.

Note: There are several parks bills moving on the House side which have handled the parks issue inconsistently. I expect to see an amendment offered that TFA and NRA worked on last week to this bill that would address federal, state and local parks. Also, the amendment were give local governments the ability to restrict firearms possession only in "designated areas" which would be limited to ball fields, permanent playgrounds and swimming pools. While I would strongly prefer no local regulation at all, this would be better than giving local governments complete authority over local parks.

WE NEED LOTS OF CALLS ON THIS ISSUE AND BILL IN SUPPORT OF SENATOR BEAVERS. This will be a battle because we are likely going to have substantial resistance from the Chiefs of Police Association as well as the entities who represent local governments. I have not heard officially from the Tennessee Sheriffs' Association but I have not noticed that organization's lobbyist working the bill against gun owners. Its seems to be local governments and appointed law enforcement are the main opposition.

Note that our opposition is funded with tax dollars and has virtually unlimited resources. We are likely to see individuals, on state or local salaries, such as Nashville's chief Serpas, at the legislature opposing citizens on this issue. We need lots of call and we need them to all Senate members but to Senate Judiciary members in particular.

SUPPORT THE BEAVERS' AMENDMENT which we expect to see this week. Key issues are full control of local parks at the state level. Only very limited local regulation and only in designated high density areas.

[waynesan]

The Judiciary Committee is meeting now and is supposed to discuss this bill last.

Senate-Judiciary