In state gun delivery service

[Spots]

So this thought has crossed my mind several times in the past few months. I see a lot of post on here looking to buy or sell guns and comments from people who are to far away to make the drive. What would the legality be if there was a 3rd party involved that brokered the pickup and delivery? Like would it be legal for someone to say, hypothetically, "Ill broker this deal for you, and Ill drive to get the gun in Nashville, then deliver it to you in Johnson City, for x amount of money"? 

[eRay]

1 minute ago, Spots said:

So this thought has crossed my mind several times in the past few months. I see a lot of post on here looking to buy or sell guns and comments from people who are to far away to make the drive. What would the legality be if there was a 3rd party involved that brokered the pickup and delivery? Like would it be legal for someone to say, hypothetically, "Ill broker this deal for you, and Ill drive to get the gun in Nashville, then deliver it to you in Johnson City, for x amount of money"? 

I don't see why it would be a problem. UPS and FedEx do it.

[DHF]

Just my thoughts but you could easily run into trouble if you are "brokering" an aspect of the other two parties deal.  They would need to conduct the financial transaction separate from you and you would have to very careful that you were nothing more than a delivery service.  I think there is a lot of room for a bad outcome if you are not a business set up to do deliveries such as UPS, FedEx or other courier business.  But I would never handle the money, trade or be in anyway involved in the actual transaction.

Question 21 (a) on Form 4473 asks if you are the actual transferee/buyer of the the firearm(s).

[Spots]

2 minutes ago, DHF said:

Just my thoughts but you could easily run into trouble if you are "brokering" an aspect of the other two parties deal.  They would need to conduct the financial transaction separate from you and you would have to very careful that you were nothing more than a delivery service.  I think there is a lot of room for a bad outcome if you are not a business set up to do deliveries such as UPS, FedEx or other courier business.  But I would never handle the money, trade or be in anyway involved in the actual transaction.

Question 21 (a) on Form 4473 asks if you are the actual transferee/buyer of the the firearm(s).

That was more what I had in mind. Two people conduct their business via money order, check, or 3rd party payment app and someone picks up package and point A and Drops off at Point B. I was pretty sure if you were involved in the money part it would either be straw purchase or a target for the newly pulled out.of thin air "selling for a profit" Lets say more delivery less brokerage. 

[Grayfox54]

Even if all you did was to deliver the gun, the time and gas costs would make it too expensive for anyone to afford. From say Memphis to Kingsport and back would be a two day drive and a whole lot of gas. Way too costly to make any kind of profit.  

In the past, some of our members who do travel a lot have volunteered to deliver a gun for a member. But I believe it was for members they personally knew and were friends with. That might be worth looking into. 

Edited April 30 by Grayfox54

[Handsome Rob]

4 hours ago, Spots said:

So this thought has crossed my mind several times in the past few months. I see a lot of post on here looking to buy or sell guns and comments from people who are to far away to make the drive. What would the legality be if there was a 3rd party involved that brokered the pickup and delivery? Like would it be legal for someone to say, hypothetically, "Ill broker this deal for you, and Ill drive to get the gun in Nashville, then deliver it to you in Johnson City, for x amount of money"? 

USPS does that, pretty dang efficiently. Well, for long guns anyway. I believe UPS or Fedex take care of the smaller stuff. 

Edited April 30 by Handsome Rob

[deerslayer]

3 hours ago, Grayfox54 said:

Even if all you did was to deliver the gun, the time and gas costs would make it too expensive for anyone to afford. From say Memphis to Kingsport and back would be a two day drive and a whole lot of gas. Way too costly to make any kind of profit.  

Exactly.  A personal courier would be cool, but probably EXPEN$IVE.  

Edited April 30 by deerslayer

[chances R]

As long as all involved are legally able to possess the firearm I see nothing illegal.  Handguns need to be done as an in state transaction.  Long guns can be done via USPS with reasonable cost as another option.

[Garufa]

An enterprising fella could start one up and call it TN Gun Runners, lol.

From an occasional standpoint such “services” may sometimes be worked out if someone happens to be going between two places by coincidence and all the planets align, but making a business of it?  Who would want to take on the hassle and most likely some type of liability doing so?.  Eventually, the middleman is going to get involved in a dispute, somehow, someway.

TN is a long state, but honestly, it’s not that big.  Meet halfway, then you know who you’re dealing with.  Memphis to Tri-Cities excluded, that’s damn near 500 miles, lol.

[MacGyver]

I’ve often wondered why a concierge model FFL doesn’t exist. Sourcing, transfers, deliveries, etc.

Then I penciled it out and figured out it was because the economics just don’t work. 

[Alleycat72]

Very hard to make a profit. I'd want my overtime rate + gas + wear and tear on the vehicle. Nashville to Memphis would add about $650 to the price of that Sig 365. That's added in the return trip. If you did that, $1300.

Edited May 1 by Alleycat72

[Tom B]

I kinda like this idea. Obviously you wont get rich, but maybe something for a retired guy to keep busy and make a few bucks? Maybe do a few at the same time to make it worth it. And yea, JC to Memphis would be a bummer.

My concern is: would you as the delivery guy be responsible for making sure the buyer, and/or seller is legal?

On the one hand, its legal for the seller or buyer to make the trip. Too bad laws and politics will be involved with this.

[DJTC45]

It seems like a good idea, you're not going to get rich but might make a dime or two. I was reading through the posts on this and a few pointed out to make sure they are legit to own a gun. Obviously if they look younger than they are your going to question them and probably ask to see their handgun permit, but how do you determine that the nice 50yr old man you meet FTF and talk to for a few minutes, how do you know if he's legal to own a gun, I mean your not going to have access to that information. I've done a bunch of FTF with some of the members here and have even driven a good distance to meet and buy or sell a gun. Just because you've delt with them before you still aren't going to know if they are still legal to buy a gun, I'm not against selling or buying FTF but we're rolling the dice every time we do so as to if that person's legal to own or purchase a gun. I sold one several years ago at the Nashville Fairgrounds Gun Show to a guy I knew personally and even ran several backgrounds on him when I would help out at a couple of local gun shop's a while ago and they all came back clear. Then after that he got into a little trouble and wasn't able to pass a background check. 

[DraxTheDad]

I don’t know if I would get into this business, sorry, too many things to go wrong that could be bad and kill the business fast.   If you’re not holding the money and verifying that what you’re picking up is what is being transferred then you could run into other issues.  I.E. if they do the sale outside of you, and you’re supposed to pick up an M1A Carbine from X and deliver to Y but X gives you a cheap rifle, they both can blame YOU.   Or if you do pick up the Carbine and then Y says that it is broken, or not what was agreed too, they both blame you.

If you’re dealing with the cash, same problems.  X says it is $500 and Y gave you $400.  Or you pick it up from X and deliver to Y but Y says they agreed to less.   And of course the bad scenario, pick up the cash from X, go to Y to get the gun who then robs you because he knows you have the cash.

In TN legally as long as they are TN citizens and “not prohibited” (basically asking them that) then you’re OK.  No dealer transactions, that would require a FFL license and transfer paperwork to be done.   

While you may make a few bucks on it, not a lot because distances and cost of the drive would be a lot, you’re risking a lot.

[LangdoniousRex]

There's no money in it doing it legally. The alternative would get you Bryan Malinowski'd. 

Even if you keep it legal and undercut every step of the way, most people are cheap and don't see the value in such a service. The rest will pay more and buy locally if they really want it.