Had a slight experience while leaving the mall...

[BrandonTN]

I just want to preface this by saying, maybe it was nothing, but it sure didn't feel right.

I stopped by the mall over the weekend to head into the dept. store to check on some shirts. As I was entering I noticed a guy sitting inside on a bench (between the outer doors and actual inner store doors) off to the side of that area. I didn't think anything of it figuring he was waiting on someone. I was in the store for about 15 minutes and as I exited I noticed he was still sitting there...no alarms yet. As I walked out, I had stepped off the sidewalk and was about halfway through the lane that divides the mall from the parking lot. I thought I heard someone say something and then I heard "Hey man" once and then a bit louder as I continued walking. At this point my hand entered my pocket gripping the 442, as I turned slightly with my weak side towards him and noticed he was now at the curb and I was in the middle of the road. He asked if I had any jumper cables, which I thought was odd. Any normal person would have gone to the Sears next door to ask to borrow a booster box or wait for the Security patrol to drive around (which I did see in an adjacent parking lot as I entered the mall). I responded with a "Sorry, I don't" and at that time the Mall security drove around the corner and the guy just turned around and walked back inside. At this point alarm bells are going off and I quickly made it to my car and got out of there.

Obviously this guy did not need a jump and he probably wasn't aware I was carrying. Is there anything I could have done to handle this differently up until the point in which he turned away? I'm also curious as to what his next move would have been if the security had not have driven around the corner. Looking back, I probably should have reported this to security, but I was on a road trip and wanting to just get back on the road at this point.

This event also made me think of this site which I saw awhile back, which is a great read for parking lot situations.

Robbery: fringe areas

[Guest GT_Rat]

Should have flagged down mall security for him and made him prove he needed them. At the least it would have gotten the mall cops in his face and gotten him more scrutiny than a criminal would want.

[BrandonTN]

Should have flagged down mall security for him and made him prove he needed them. At the least it would have gotten the mall cops in his face and gotten him more scrutiny than a criminal would want.

I know, that's the only thing I regret, but as I said, I was already in a hurry as it was, stressed from dealing with ATL traffic and just wanting to get back on the road.

[TripleDigitRide]

Contact Paul Blart, immediately!

[BrandonTN]

Contact Paul Blart, immediately!

[Punisher84]

I think it worked out fine for what you did. If you had notified mall security they could have at least questioned him or kept an eye on him.

I guess what you could take away from it is that even though you were in a hurry if you had notified the mall security it might have prevented something bad from happening to someone else.

I get this alot working campus security. We'll have a break-in and the next day someone will say "Yea I saw two guys cruising the lot and acting really weird, but I was in a hurry and didn't have your guys' number." Can't be everywhere at once.

Don't fell like I'm trying to preach at ya or anything, just tossing out my observation on the what-ifs. Glad you're safe though man.

[Guest kingtone]

i dont think you did anything 'wrong' in the situation. i probably would have done the same.. and then later kick myself for not telling the security. but hey.. hindsight is often 20/20. Dont beat yourself up about it or anything though

[threeshot]

I know, that's the only thing I regret, but as I said, I was already in a hurry as it was, stressed from dealing with ATL traffic and just wanting to get back on the road.

This is part of life. You learn from your mistakes so that you do not repeat them in the future. I am sure in the future, you would now report this issue to the proper authorities even if the security vehicle were not at the scene.

Well, some of us learn as we go through life.

[oldogy]

After an event like you describe I would ask myself just "how vulnerable did I appear?" Did I appear to be a sheep or did I display high SA?

Yeah, if I were as concern as you said you were I would have contacted mall security.

oldogy

[TGO David]

After an event like you describe I would ask myself just "how vulnerable did I appear?" Did I appear to be a sheep or did I display high SA?

Yeah, if I were as concern as you said you were I would have contacted mall security.

oldogy

Which begs the question, how can you make yourself appear less like a sheep and more like a sheepdog.

I'm sure someone will say that open carry is a solution, so let's just set that aside and agree that not everyone wants to open carry or believes that it's the right way to carry. So what else?

[Guest justme]

Which begs the question, how can you make yourself appear less like a sheep and more like a sheepdog.

I'm sure someone will say that open carry is a solution, so let's just set that aside and agree that not everyone wants to open carry or believes that it's the right way to carry. So what else?

IMO people who CC do so because they don't want to look like a sheepdog. CC has been ingrained into people--out of sight out of mind, and that is the way most people see it, and that is the way the public has been trained to accept it. That is why so many people panic at the sight of an ordinary person carrying a gun, which is why there are so many MWAG calls when someone OC's--and why so many ask "are you LE?"

it is the way the public has been trained unfortunately. As for how you can look more like a sheepdog without OC'ing...unless you want to get a hat/jacket which says "I'm packing, are you?"--I really see no way of doing it.

don't want this to go off topic, so I will leave my opinion as it is.

[Guest canynracer]

Its your demeanor...has nothing to do with you carrying

Look folks in the eye, stand tall, acknowledge folks...

There is a demeanor, an ora if you will that tells people not to screw with you.

Displaying a gun says nothing about whether you are a sheepdog.

[Guest Ggun]

This is one of those situations where keeping a handgun in a pocket becomes problematic. If you had a hip holster and regularly practice drawing you probably wouldn't have immediately grabbed your handgun, whereby your strong side was compromised.

You kinda got to decide if your going to go for your gun everytime somebody yells at you in a parking lot. For me, I'm not going to do that.

[oldogy]

Which begs the question, how can you make yourself appear less like a sheep and more like a sheepdog.

I'm sure someone will say that open carry is a solution, so let's just set that aside and agree that not everyone wants to open carry or believes that it's the right way to carry. So what else?

The way you carry yourself, the way you appear to know what you are doing, where you are going, that you have a purpose and will not be deterred. Display confidence, decisiveness. Carry yourself errect. Avoid uncertain movements. Walk briskly.

Just a few.

Maybe we need to start a new thread on this.

oldogy

[Punisher84]

Its your demeanor...has nothing to do with you carrying

Look folks in the eye, stand tall, acknowledge folks...

There is a demeanor, an ora if you will that tells people not to screw with you.

Displaying a gun says nothing about whether you are a sheepdog.

Exactly. It's a psychological thing.

This is one of those situations where keeping a handgun in a pocket becomes problematic. If you had a hip holster and regularly practice drawing you probably wouldn't have immediately grabbed your handgun, whereby your strong side was compromised.

You kinda got to decide if your going to go for your gun everytime somebody yells at you in a parking lot. For me, I'm not going to do that.

Not necessarily going for your gun, but if I was pocket carrying and someone made me feel nervous I'd sure have my hand on the grip out of sight. Watch Cops sometime and let me know where the officer's gun hand is most of the time while talking to an irate suspect. If it ain't on it, it's near it.

[Guest Mugster]

Exactly. It's a psychological thing.

Not necessarily going for your gun, but if I was pocket carrying and someone made me feel nervous I'd sure have my hand on the grip out of sight. Watch Cops sometime and let me know where the officer's gun hand is most of the time while talking to an irate suspect. If it ain't on it, it's near it.

Their handguns are in plain sight.

I was waiting to see if anyone pointed out that the OP wound up in the following tactical position:

1. Back to a large parking lot.

2. Standing in the middle of the street, motionless.

3. One hand in a pocket and one hand out, probably because his hand was cold.

A better bet is not to reach for a weapon until you decide to use it. Another better bet is to not reply to solicitors and keep moving.

In dangerous places (and we may get that way here yet if unemployment stays up there), a crew might work like that. Have a distraction, possibly a hooker...pull you or stop you where they want you and stick a knife in your ribs. Or ducktape you to a pole and throw you in a van.

Shrug. Anything shy of the wall is a great landing. And I'm not totally convinced dude didn't just need a jump. Although that does spark my BS-o-meter slightly.

I think the sheepdog thing is st00pid, but thats just me.

[Guest justme]

Its your demeanor...has nothing to do with you carrying

Look folks in the eye, stand tall, acknowledge folks...

There is a demeanor, an ora if you will that tells people not to screw with you.

Displaying a gun says nothing about whether you are a sheepdog.

100% true--I honestly never gave it a lot of thought, but after reading what you wrote, you are absolutely right.

[E4 No More]

Which begs the question, how can you make yourself appear less like a sheep and more like a sheepdog.

I'm sure someone will say that open carry is a solution, so let's just set that aside and agree that not everyone wants to open carry or believes that it's the right way to carry. So what else?

Personally, I find that eye contact sends the distinct message that I am not a sheep. I do not mean menacing eye contact, but simply "I'm aware of my surroundings" type eye contact. Sheep stare at the ground or are focused only on their immediate path.

In fairness, it could just be because I'm 6' 3.5" at 290 lbs too.

[Guest Ggun]

Exactly. It's a psychological thing.

Not necessarily going for your gun, but if I was pocket carrying and someone made me feel nervous I'd sure have my hand on the grip out of sight. Watch Cops sometime and let me know where the officer's gun hand is most of the time while talking to an irate suspect. If it ain't on it, it's near it.

I don't know, being nervous around strangers on the street isn't the same as being in imminent fear...

For instance, I walk to my workplace through a short but bad stretch. It makes me nervous. I'm situationally aware, but I'm not gripping my gun. But, if your point is being near it sufficient to draw if needed, then I'm with you.

[Punisher84]

I don't know, being nervous around strangers on the street isn't the same as being in imminent fear...

For instance, I walk to my workplace through a short but bad stretch. It makes me nervous. I'm situationally aware, but I'm not gripping my gun. But, if your point is being near it sufficient to draw if needed, then I'm with you.

Yea I get what you're saying and agree completely. I can see someone coming out of the Wal-Mart, a guy asks them for a light and they drop the groceries, yell "CONTACT!", do a barrel roll, and start screaming "I feel threatened" while gripping their Hi-point lol.

My point is what you prefaced above about just being near it. I.E if my hinky meter is starting to wobble I'm probably gonna at least make sure my right hand is free and I'm paying more attention to what is going on around me.

Mugster you made a good point as well about crews man. Never assume there is just one.

[BrandonTN]

Their handguns are in plain sight.

I was waiting to see if anyone pointed out that the OP wound up in the following tactical position:

1. Back to a large parking lot.

2. Standing in the middle of the street, motionless.

3. One hand in a pocket and one hand out, probably because his hand was cold.

A better bet is not to reach for a weapon until you decide to use it. Another better bet is to not reply to solicitors and keep moving.

In dangerous places (and we may get that way here yet if unemployment stays up there), a crew might work like that. Have a distraction, possibly a hooker...pull you or stop you where they want you and stick a knife in your ribs. Or ducktape you to a pole and throw you in a van.

Shrug. Anything shy of the wall is a great landing. And I'm not totally convinced dude didn't just need a jump. Although that does spark my BS-o-meter slightly.

I think the sheepdog thing is st00pid, but thats just me.

For the record, my back was actually to the store entrance with my peripheral outwards towards the parking lot (which was fairly empty and wide open) and sides of the building up until the point the guy yelled at me. The way I turned, someone would have had to run at me from behind from an almost empty parking lot...I was not near any parked cars. Not sure how I would have handled it differently, guess turning was a knee jerk reaction. I do see what you're saying about people working in teams though. My biggest fear from not turning around was thinking the guy could have been closing in after me and I wouldn't think I'd want my back to that. As far as my hand reaching in my pocket...probably just instinct from not feeling quite right about the situation. Thanks for all the comments guys, its always nice to see other points of views and things which I may not have considered.

Edited April 21, 2009 by BrandonTN

[Guest Whiskers]

Most criminals who have spent time in jail have learned from other criminals.... Remember, they are not all dumb. Most of them when surprised have a "line" to throw....

Many years ago I caught two guys looking through my garage window. When I walked around the corner of my house armed, one of them quickly said, "Hey, man, we thought we saw smoke coming out of your house."" The same two guys were arrested a few weeks later for breaking into a neighbors house.

[Guest archerdr1]

I wouldn't be so quick to complain about the OP putting his hand in his pocket on his pistol. If he waited to do so until he was in imminent danger, there is a chance that he could not get his hand in his pocket quickly enough to get it out. Sometimes, I have trouble getting my hand in there to get change out, so as soon as I was a little nervous, I think I would put my hand in there, hold on to the gun, and done the same thing that he did. That way, If I did find myself in the position to draw, I would be ready. It is not like my waist holster where all I have to do is use my thumb to lift up my shirt tail and draw in the same motion.

[Guest kingtone]

...if my hinky meter is starting to wobble I'm probably gonna at least make sure my right hand is free and I'm paying more attention to what is going on around me...

that's gold right there!

can i use that?

Hinky Meter Wobble.

[Punisher84]

that's gold right there!

can i use that?

Hinky Meter Wobble.

You may use it at your leisure good Sir!