Apartments & Guns

[hkusp40cal]

As with any lease you can have that clause removed before you sign. The best way to handle that is to ask the landlord if they are willing to assume pecuniary liability should a resident be injured or killed in the event they are unable to defend themselves per the lease during a home invasion or burglary.

(Taken from PA gun owners board)

Edited April 21, 2009 by hkusp40cal
added cite

[9teeneleven]

Restricting a Constitutional right? Could they also restrict Time or Newsweek magizine, the Bible? Restrict conservative talk radio programs from being aired etc?

I know many people don't see gun rights as the same as speech, religion, or privacy like we do but according to the Bill of Rights, it is illegal to restrict possession of firearms. If a tenant has the time or money it would be worth a law suit. Apartments are dwellings for people to live in, I just don't see how they can legally restrict a Constitutional right.

You are incorrect. The constitution does not apply to private individuals making restrictions on their private property. There are plenty of restrictions on free speech, just none (few) originating with the government. This afternoon, see if you have a right to protest or hold church service on your neighbor's front lawn. All the constitution protects you from is government infringement of your rights.

[Guest mikedwood]

You have an unlimited right to contract. So you can sign away your constitutional rights. Much like a non disclosure agreement would be signing away your right to free speech.

But that would be a civil and not criminal matter if you broke it, unless you commited a crime with the gun, or disclosed government information (say you had that in your job).

With breaking the lease they would probably just evict you and "may" go after the money owed from the remainer of the lease.

But there are other laws that don't allow for discrinination against religion or race. So if you were to have a lease that said someone couldn't go to church or had to go to a specific one, that wouldn't fly. Or if they had in a lease that you couldn't have minorities visit you that wouldn't work as well.

If it's in the lease as guns not allowed they can evict you if you are found to have guns (if you were paying rent and a good guy they would probably ask you to store them elsewhere or get rid of them off the property in some fashion).

You can try and have them take it out of the lease.

But I'm a computer tech not a laywer.

[Fallguy]

As with any lease you can have that clause removed before you sign. The best way to handle that is to ask the landlord if they are willing to assume pecuniary liability should a resident be injured or killed in the event they are unable to defend themselves per the lease during a home invasion or burglary.

(Taken from PA gun owners board)

Good idea.

The place I'm renting know actually had a "No Motorcycle" clause in the lease. The landlord said it was what her parents had on there before she ever started running it. I got her to strike that paragraph out, initial it and sign it, before I rented the place. I have kept that copy just in case.

As others said, it wouldn't be "illegal" but it would violate the lease and could get you evicted unless you can get them to make an exception.

[threeshot]

Is it illegal for a apartment complex to not allow you to keep a gun in your rented apartment.

My lease says no guns allowed. I really don't want to ask for details because I don't want them asking questions.

What is the name of the apartment complex that is making this restriction?

[K191145]

You are incorrect. The constitution does not apply to private individuals making restrictions on their private property. There are plenty of restrictions on free speech, just none (few) originating with the government. This afternoon, see if you have a right to protest or hold church service on your neighbor's front lawn. All the constitution protects you from is government infringement of your rights.

Try banning Korans or restrict women from wearing veils at an apartment complex and see how fast the ACLU slaps a lawsuit on them.

[Guest bkelm18]

Try banning Korans or restrict women from wearing veils at an apartment complex and see how fast the ACLU slaps a lawsuit on them.

And that proves what? The ACLU is about publicity, they do not care if their lawsuits have any legal ground or not. I hate to break it to you, but on private property, the property owner is king, not the constitution. As mrnick said, go hold a religious service on your neighbors lawn without permission. We'll see what the cops say when they arrest you for trespassing.

[mhm2a]

I work for a Property Management Company in Murfreesboro that manages around 1500 units in Rutherford County. If you are paying your rent on time and are otherwise minding your own business no landlord will pursue evicting you for having a firearm in plain view inside your apartment.

If you answer the door while pointing said weapon at the property manager or are out in the parking lot waiving it around you should prepare to be evicted. It seems that common sense is not so common anymore and that is why it is standard to have that clause in the lease.

Most large Management Companies use the same lease and it is prepared by the National Apartment Association and is written and defended by Attorney's around the country. You can usually negotiate the terms to some degree, but during a strong market they may not budge on policy.

Another word of caution about the clauses in the lease. Please be sure that you agree with or otherwise amend the policies of the lease prior to putting down earnest money or a deposit, because if you change your mind and choose not to lease their unit due to their policies or clauses in their lease your earnest money or deposit is not refundable.

[Guest Patty]

He wouldn't lose his right to carry. They'd just evict him. Breaking the rules of a rental agreement isn't even criminal. It just means they can evict him if they choose.

I think you need to review the Tennessee Codes, if you break a rule in a written agreement concerning fireams, in any contract. You are breaking a law, that will result in the right for you to carry to be revoked. But that would be up for a Judge to say, in his court. Once you accepted this right to carry, you agreed to follow all rules concerning firearms in any contract.

[Oh Shoot]

I think you need to review the Tennessee Codes, if you break a rule in a written agreement concerning fireams, in any contract. You are breaking a law, that will result in the right for you to carry to be revoked. But that would be up for a Judge to say, in his court. Once you accepted this right to carry, you agreed to follow all rules concerning firearms in any contract.

Ummm...what would you be doing in front of a judge in the first place over a broken lease?

- OS

[Guest bkelm18]

I think you need to review the Tennessee Codes, if you break a rule in a written agreement concerning fireams, in any contract. You are breaking a law, that will result in the right for you to carry to be revoked. But that would be up for a Judge to say, in his court. Once you accepted this right to carry, you agreed to follow all rules concerning firearms in any contract.

Not saying what you say is incorrect, but could you point to the code that says this?

[Fallguy]

Not saying what you say is incorrect, but could you point to the code that says this?

+1

[Guest Xd9]

JUST DONT LIVE THERE:rolleyes:

[Guest KWW67]

Ummm...what would you be doing in front of a judge in the first place over a broken lease?

- OS

You could most certainly face a judge over a broken lease should the plaintiff decide to go that route. But it would be on the civil end of the courts so a loss of carry privledge would not enter the equation and would be non-issue..

[Punisher84]

I think you need to review the Tennessee Codes, if you break a rule in a written agreement concerning fireams, in any contract. You are breaking a law, that will result in the right for you to carry to be revoked. But that would be up for a Judge to say, in his court. Once you accepted this right to carry, you agreed to follow all rules concerning firearms in any contract.

No offense, but I deal with this every day and I think you either got bad information or you are confusing laws.

If your company tells you firearms are not allowed on company property and you carry anyway and are caught, you get fired. Not arrested or prosecuted.

Breaking a contract is not necessarily a criminal act and I know of no such TCA that states anything about a written agreement and firearms. If you can provide evidence to support your claim I will happily review it.

[Oh Shoot]

You could most certainly face a judge over a broken lease should the plaintiff decide to go that route. ...

Oh, meaning you stiffed them for the rest of the lease period.

Yeah, I guess I could see that...

- OS

[Guest Patty]

Not saying what you say is incorrect, but could you point to the code that says this?

Hmmmm, I could, but then you could look yourself. Not saying you don't know how to, but could you at least try.

[Fallguy]

Hmmmm, I could, but then you could look yourself. Not saying you don't know how to, but could you at least try.

A few of us on here know how to look up T.C.A. and regularly do. That is why we believe there is no law that says what you are claiming and are asking you to provide us with what you are saying so we can all eat a big plate of crow.....

As KWW67 said, if you violate a contract (lease) the person violated has civil remedies they can pursue. But that is not criminal and has nothing to do with the carry of a handgun.

Also if you violate 39-17-1359 you could have your HCP suspended or revoked, but that statute has specific posting requirements and would not include a paragraph in a contract or lease.

[Guest Patty]

There is not any point in eating crow, we can either choose to follow the codes as they are written, and be that which we should be. Or we can choose to not too and become subject to a judge's choice of his interpretation. It appears that the code I am suggesting, is clear on this. If the contract that you sign has this rule written into the contract, then said contract is clearly posted, for this code to be applied.

A few of us on here know how to look up T.C.A. and regularly do. That is why we believe there is no law that says what you are claiming and are asking you to provide us with what you are saying so we can all eat a big plate of crow.....

As KWW67 said, if you violate a contract (lease) the person violated has civil remedies they can pursue. But that is not criminal and has nothing to do with the carry of a handgun.

Also if you violate 39-17-1359 you could have your HCP suspended or revoked, but that statute has specific posting requirements and would not include a paragraph in a contract or lease.

Edited April 22, 2009 by Patty

[Guest bkelm18]

Hmmmm, I could, but then you could look yourself. Not saying you don't know how to, but could you at least try.

I just went through all of 39-17-13xx and didn't see anything like that. That's the entire section dealing with firearms.

[Oh Shoot]

,,,, If the contract that you sign has this rule written into the contract, then said contract is clearly posted, for this code to be applied.

Not even in the ballpark of carrying at a posted location, as you suggest.

Indeed, it would be perfectly okay for me to carry a gun to visit you in your "no firearms allowed" leased apartment, assuming the apartment building is not posted compliant to TCA, and not being a resident, I signed no lease agreement. You, as a resident, would not be in violation of the "posted property" statute either, only in violation of the lease agreement.

- OS

[Guest bkelm18]

Not to mention the law states that a posting must be substantially similar to... yadda yadda yadda. A "No Firearms" clause would not suffice just as a store with a sign that said "No Firearms" would not suffice as proper posting. As well as every entrance to the building must be posted with signs.

[Fallguy]

There is not any point in eating crow, we can either choose to follow the codes as they are written, and be that which we should be. Or we can choose to not too and become subject to a judge's choice of his interpretation. It appears that the code I am suggesting, is clear on this. If the contract that you sign has this rule written into the contract, then said contract is clearly posted, for this code to be applied.

Ok...let us know what code we need to follow......

Again, if you are talking about 39-17-1359 that in no way applies to a contract between landlord and tenant.

Now if the landlord had a sign(s) posted that met the requirents as laid out in 39-17-1359 that would be different.

Edited April 23, 2009 by Fallguy

[Guest bkelm18]

There is not any point in eating crow, we can either choose to follow the codes as they are written, and be that which we should be. Or we can choose to not too and become subject to a judge's choice of his interpretation. It appears that the code I am suggesting, is clear on this. If the contract that you sign has this rule written into the contract, then said contract is clearly posted, for this code to be applied.

You obviously know something that we do not, something that could cost people their right to carry, could you post the TCA so we can know at least?

[Punisher84]

Flag on the play. 10 posts, no credibility. Penalty, defense gets the ball.

I must also add that 5 out of 10 posts (including the first post) from Patty have been inflammatory shall we say?

Patty, if you would kindly show us the TCA code you refer too. Please also keep in mind you are on a board with people who work in the firearms training industry, lawyers, police officers, and other individuals who can quote TCA in their sleep. *coughFallguycough*

Edited April 23, 2009 by Punisher84