Gun Show Loophole

[OLDNEWBIE]

14 hours ago, papa61 said:

well that's not as bad as I expected. Bad, just not as bad as expected.

Did I understand it's the SELLERS responsibility to determine if buyer is buying with intent to resell for profit? This is worse than expected I believe. What a big win for the anti gun lobby. Basically this law will make everyone skittish about selling privately to anyone except close friends or relatives. I invision a bill of sale form with verbage saying "buyer purchase with intent for personal use and will hold for a minimum of one year before resale"

[hipower]

So...what's the general feeling here guys? Do you feel we are totally Fubar at this point? 

I have been considering renting a table at a local show and attempting to sell off some things. Is this still a viable option?

[FUJIMO]

1 hour ago, hipower said:

So...what's the general feeling here guys? Do you feel we are totally Fubar at this point? Been FUBAR for a while now. Death of a 1000 cuts

I have been considering renting a table at a local show and attempting to sell off some things. Is this still a viable option? If you plan on selling anything and not wanting to appear like a dealer I'd say the sooner the better. Proceed with caution

 

Edited April 16 by FUJIMO

[gregintenn]

12 hours ago, btq96r said:

Gun owners pretending they weren't in business are the ones who brought this down.  As long as the background check system isn't a bogged down mess, I don't see this going away.  As @JohnSutton1980explained pretty well, Congress ceded this authority to the executive branch...they had fundraising to attend to, I'm sure.  Better to have something you pretend to care about when asking folks for money.

I don't care for this. Not for the "gun" reason, but because it puts these sellers at an unfair advantage over licensed dealers. These folks don't have to purchase an FFL, business license, mess with all the bound book keeping, or charge sales tax.

[Kano]

https://youtu.be/GSxU345wu9A

[AuEagle]

Well, since communists deal in instilling fear, I believe everyday people will cease setting up at gun shows. Attendance will be down & many promotors will go out of business.

I believe many will drop prices & liquidate their collections.

I believe there will be arrests both at homes & gun shows to bolster their agenda, make examples.

These tactics have been used in various states, especially the blue states.

I hope I'm wrong & these unconstitutional "laws" are overturned.

Some here have labeled President Trump a dictator, yeah right, there's a dictator & his minions in office now seeing to the destruction of our country.

Edited April 17 by AuEagle

[Grayfox54]

I'm concerned about this. I just turned 70 and am thinking it may be time to thin the herd. I have a large collection. My sons will keep some for themselves, but no way they'll want them all. I have been  seriously thinking about selling many of them off. First to save them the time and trouble after I'm gone. Secondly, they could use the money much more than the guns. I've even considered getting a table or two at a gun show to expedite the process.  According to this, I'm screwed. 

And that brings up another question, what about heirs who are needing to sell off an inherited collection? What will they do? 

[gary_boom]

I had two pistols on consignment at a local gun shop before this happened.  I didn’t want the aggravation of selling  on the e classified plus the possibility of being robbed and on top of that running a foul of the ATF and having to spend thousands to defend myself.  I am almost never able to sell for a profit and will probably take a loss of over $100 on each pistol. I posted one here and didn’t have any interest.

[Garufa]

I honesty think there is a lot of overreaction going on in response to this ruling.

It’s the unlicensed dealers this is targeted at.  Those guys who always have a couple  of tables minimum at gun shows who always have brand new in the box handguns, or ones that keep going back to the gun store to buy the same thing over and over again then flipping them, etc., and most importantly, promising to do so for others.

I have not been to a show in over 4 years but I do recall one of the regulars who always had lots of brand new stuff…all “private sale”.  If I’m not mistaken he made the news a few years ago after being busted for being “engaged in the business”.

Edited April 18 by Garufa

[Whisper]

14 hours ago, Garufa said:

It’s the unlicensed dealers this is targeted at.  Those guys who always have a couple  of tables minimum at gun shows who always have brand new in the box handguns, or ones that keep going back to the gun store to buy the same thing over and over again then flipping them, etc., and most importantly, promising to do so for others.

Yes, that's *mainly* who they're targeting, but it's the ATF, so if they can write a regulation that's wide enough to catch up more people in addition to the ones who are actually targeted, that's fine with them -- it improves their arrest stats, helps support the case that it was a widespread problem, and (like all poorly explained gun restrictions) has a chilling effect on honest gun owners who might decide to spend their money on something else instead of risking having their dogs and family members shot in a paramilitary raid.

 

[AuEagle]

There should be huge "overreaction" any time our rights are threatened or taken away.

[Kimber451911]

Smart folks are working on this. You can look at this thread alone and see that they’ve already caused gun owners to classify themselves as being in “different categories”.  Created animosity between gun-owners.. right here. Right here - I see the negative labeling of guys who are trading at gun shows.  
 

For me personally.. if those old retired guys at the shows make a few xtra bucks trading guns, they’re far less of a risk on a quickly diminishing society, than the anti-Israel mob - the blm looting and burning mobs - the democratic politicians destroying cities by taking on ILLEGALS by the 1000’s - the pro-baby-murder crowd - the folks who invite men into women’s restrooms alongside your wife or daughter - and on, and on, and on, and on ….  there’s not even any reasonable comparison. 
 

As most of us know, this ruling only serves to give a corrupt government a better chance at knowing what guns every individual owns, moving forward.  So.. a current corrupt government who has been instrumental in handing over millions of dollars worth of guns and military equipment to TERRORISTS overseas, is practicing communism in our country. And.. “we” as gun owners are immediately breaking off into groups to single out what the “other group” is doing wrong.  
 

As noted above, they have some smart folks working on how to cause us to support their bs cause, without us “knowing” we are supporting their bs cause. 

[AuEagle]

NEW: Trump-Appointed Judge Blocks Biden's ATF Rule Expanding Gun Background Checks | The Gateway Pundit | by Cristina Laila

[Rob Gray]

On 4/11/2024 at 2:02 PM, Tom B said:

Along these lines, I'm wondering if anyone else on here has gotten an email from the ATF in response to any 'for sale' ads?

I have an ad for a gun in the 'E-Classfieds', an Eastman buy/sell/trade site here in E TN. Been trying to sell it for a awhile and every few weeks I put the ad back up for a few days.

Got an email from a Hank Schrader of the ATF telling me of the penalties for selling guns without a license etc.

I'm wondering if someone sees my ads and thinks they are for all different guns?

I responded to the email, and they told me to contact my local office. Its in Greeneville, but I havent tried calling them yet.

I'm assuming they arent singling me out since I dont sell that many guns-lol. I see plenty of the same names on the 'for sale' sites all the time, those folks are selling a lot more guns than me.

I’ve been looking for information regarding this new law, to see if it has gone into affect yet or if it’s been defined. I have a couple of guns. I wouldn’t mind selling in the classifieds here, but I don’t wanna get on the wrong side of any law-enforcement or put on any list so to speak. Has any new information come around?

[Worriedman]

If you are a TFA Member, you are not subject to the new "rule", we, along with GOA joined Ken Paxton in their lawsuit (I am the named plaintiff in Tennessee) and we won the issue of gaining the temporary injunction.  Members of either TFA or GOA or the Virginia 2A group are protected for now.

I don't see how this stands.

 

From the TRO issued by the Texas Court.

TRO issued by Texas Court

Here, three organizations (GOA, TFA, and VCDL) count Tormey — who has standing —as a member. ECF No.16-3 at 2. Moreover, TFA and VCDL have provided declarations evidencing that they have specific members “who will be impacted [by the Final Rule] because they have . . . bought and resold firearms, and wish to do so in the future without being improperly labeled as a ‘dealer’ in firearms.” ECF No. 16-5 at 3 (Declaration of C. Richard Archie); ECF No. 16-6 at 3–4 (Declaration of Philip Van Cleave). The same holds true for GOF. See ECF No. 16-4 at 4 (Declaration of Erich M. Pratt). And the GOA describes a former FFL whose retirement savings are now frozen in unsellable inventory.

We are in a fight for our rights!

Edited June 11 by Worriedman

[Worriedman]

Issued today!

[AuEagle]

Federal Judge Blocks ATF Rule Expanding Definition Of Gun Dealer | ZeroHedge

[Worriedman]

3 hours ago, AuEagle said:

Federal Judge Blocks ATF Rule Expanding Definition Of Gun Dealer | ZeroHedge

I hope they do appeal it, going to the 5th Circuit Appeals will defiantly be in our favor.

[Rockmup]

The defeat of Chevron killed this because at the time of the Chevron decision, it was NOT in place at the time.

[QuackerSmacker]

18 minutes ago, Rockmup said:

The defeat of Chevron killed this because at the time of the Chevron decision, it was NOT in place at the time.

Could you please go into some detail about your comment, specifically about the "this" and about the "it?"  This stuff is confusing enough already.......thanks  

[Garufa]

37 minutes ago, QuackerSmacker said:

Could you please go into some detail about your comment, specifically about the "this" and about the "it?"  This stuff is confusing enough already.......thanks  

I’ve read it 8 times and still have no clue.

[Rockmup]

 

Federal Judge Blocks ATF Rule Expanding Definition Of Gun Dealer | ZeroHedge
Chevron is not retroactive, whats done is done

Except this was not yet in place as it got kicked back so, it will NOT stand

[Worriedman]

As of this date the Rule is in force for everyone NOT a member of Gun Owners of America, Gun Owners Foundation, Virginia Citizens Defense League, and Tennessee Firearms Association, alongside the states of Louisiana, Mississippi, Texas, and Utah.

[gregintenn]

On 7/2/2024 at 9:03 AM, Worriedman said:

As of this date the Rule is in force for everyone NOT a member of Gun Owners of America, Gun Owners Foundation, Virginia Citizens Defense League, and Tennessee Firearms Association, alongside the states of Louisiana, Mississippi, Texas, and Utah.

I wouldn't think that by it's self would pass legal muster. One rule for this group of people and another for everyone else. Should everyone not included in this file suit as well?

[Garufa]

2 hours ago, gregintenn said:

I wouldn't think that by it's self would pass legal muster. One rule for this group of people and another for everyone else. Should everyone not included in this file suit as well?

I don’t know what’s  worse; a federal agency “clarifying”  definitions of administrative “law” that only results in mass confusion and hysteria, or a federal judge that declares these new rules are on hold for some people, but still applies to others.