not changing your EDC pistol?

[1gewehr]

On 9/3/2024 at 12:59 PM, TGO David said:

There have been enough advancements in the past few years that a person who hasn't revisited their carry-options in 10-years or more really ought to look at what is available today.

Having 17-rounds of 9mm available in an optics-ready, micro-compact format like the Sig P365 Macro wasn't possible a decade ago.  If you wanted 17-rounds and a red dot sight back then, you were toting a full-size pistol.

 

True, but:

Keep in mind that a lot of firearm operation is based on muscle memory gained through training and MANY repetitions.  When you change your weapon, you need to also change that the way you operate.

When I changed from a Star PD .45 to a Springfield XDs .45, the differences were minor, but crucial.  The grip was slightly different, no thumb safety, very different trigger pull, magazine changes were slightly different, and many other more subtle differences.

After the many years of operating standard iron sights, I have no desire to transition to a red dot.  Add in my inbred distrust of electronic and optical devices that I have seen fail MANY times when you need them most, and I'll stick with 'old reliable' irons.

[Choatecav]

6 hours ago, 1gewehr said:

True, but:

Keep in mind that a lot of firearm operation is based on muscle memory gained through training and MANY repetitions.  When you change your weapon, you need to also change that the way you operate.

When I changed from a Star PD .45 to a Springfield XDs .45, the differences were minor, but crucial.  The grip was slightly different, no thumb safety, very different trigger pull, magazine changes were slightly different, and many other more subtle differences.

After the many years of operating standard iron sights, I have no desire to transition to a red dot.  Add in my inbred distrust of electronic and optical devices that I have seen fail MANY times when you need them most, and I'll stick with 'old reliable' irons.

This is very true and is well stated.   

I too switched several years ago to a XDs .45 and have run thousands of rounds through it.  The acquisition of this firearm, the feel, the familiarity, the reliability and the fact that it is muscle memory rather than only thought to bring it to bear, far exceeds the benefits of a few more rounds or a red dot or a rail system or anything else. 

Everyday carry (EDC) is for one purpose..... to save my life and the lives of my loved ones.  It represents the most hallowed position that can be held in the realm of firearms.

This is in no way a put down of the newer technology that is available or the cool features, etc., etc., etc.  I enjoy those as much as most others.  

[TGO David]

23 hours ago, 1gewehr said:

After the many years of operating standard iron sights, I have no desire to transition to a red dot.  Add in my inbred distrust of electronic and optical devices that I have seen fail MANY times when you need them most, and I'll stick with 'old reliable' irons.

I've helped a lot of people over that mental hump in the past 6-8 years.  Once they saw what they could do with a dot, and how it improved their shooting with iron sights, they all admitted that their previous apprehension was unfounded.

I shoot faster and more accurate with a dot than I ever did with irons, and I wasn't shabby with irons in the first place.  I hope that we all can agree that speed with accuracy, or improved accuracy alone, are what we want from our defensive shooting abilities.

You can't miss fast enough to win a gunfight, but you also literally have the rest of your life to get shots on target when the fight begins.

 

[JeffL]

On 9/6/2024 at 11:04 AM, 1gewehr said:

True, but:

Keep in mind that a lot of firearm operation is based on muscle memory gained through training and MANY repetitions.  When you change your weapon, you need to also change that the way you operate.

When I changed from a Star PD .45 to a Springfield XDs .45, the differences were minor, but crucial.  The grip was slightly different, no thumb safety, very different trigger pull, magazine changes were slightly different, and many other more subtle differences.

After the many years of operating standard iron sights, I have no desire to transition to a red dot.  Add in my inbred distrust of electronic and optical devices that I have seen fail MANY times when you need them most, and I'll stick with 'old reliable' irons.

So hit the range and do some training. I want red dots on all the handguns now.

[papa61]

On 9/8/2024 at 9:46 PM, JeffL said:

So hit the range and do some training. I want red dots on all the handguns now.

I encourage everyone to pick what they are comfortable with and practice, practice, practice then practice some more. But for the cost of a new pistol and optic I could shoot what I have enough to rival Jelly Bryce. 

[papa61]

On 9/7/2024 at 10:15 AM, TGO David said:

I've helped a lot of people over that mental hump in the past 6-8 years.  Once they saw what they could do with a dot, and how it improved their shooting with iron sights, they all admitted that their previous apprehension was unfounded.

I shoot faster and more accurate with a dot than I ever did with irons, and I wasn't shabby with irons in the first place.  I hope that we all can agree that speed with accuracy, or improved accuracy alone, are what we want from our defensive shooting abilities.

You can't miss fast enough to win a gunfight, but you also literally have the rest of your life to get shots on target when the fight begins.

 

For myself it isn't a mental hump. I have used red dots and don't care for them. Inside of the 7 yard line it's point and squeeze. Sights are not a thought. The way I was taught and practice does not rely on aligning sights in short range defensive use. I'm not advocating that for anyone, but it works for me, quite well. I don't use any optics unless I need magnification. Extreme astigmatism will cause issues for me at times with any optic. and as @1gewehr stated, electronics will fail. That may never be an issue but you fight the way you train. If that one in however many chance hits in a gunfight you're going to hesitate and we know what happens there.

I have only recently picked up polymer framed pistols (other than my P32 which is over 30). I prefer heavier handguns for shooting. Recovery is just quicker and easier. All metal pistols are a pain to carry at times but as I have said, there's always a trade off. all that to say if we are going to lighter poly frame cut slide pistols for carry comfort, why add ounces back into the holster? Add to all of the cost involved choosing something that fits an optic you're comfy with and finding a comfy holster. It all adds time and expense that I don't want or need.

[Choatecav]

Many you may have read this as it just came out in the NRA Shooting Illustrated, but it is germane to the topic of this thread.  Hope you enjoy it:

Ditch the “Carry Rotation” | An Official Journal Of The NRA (shootingillustrated.com)

 

[pop pop]

I have carried the same setup for years. See no need to change now. My practice is always the same. Have often thought of changing to a larger compacity but just haven't seen the need to. Seven rounds in a revolver seems adequate to me. Hope/pray no running gun battles are in my future. 

[JustEd]

On 9/10/2024 at 7:02 PM, papa61 said:

For myself it isn't a mental hump. I have used red dots and don't care for them. Inside of the 7 yard line it's point and squeeze. Sights are not a thought. The way I was taught and practice does not rely on aligning sights in short range defensive use. I'm not advocating that for anyone, but it works for me, quite well. I don't use any optics unless I need magnification. Extreme astigmatism will cause issues for me at times with any optic. and as @1gewehr stated, electronics will fail. That may never be an issue but you fight the way you train. If that one in however many chance hits in a gunfight you're going to hesitate and we know what happens there.

I have only recently picked up polymer framed pistols (other than my P32 which is over 30). I prefer heavier handguns for shooting. Recovery is just quicker and easier. All metal pistols are a pain to carry at times but as I have said, there's always a trade off. all that to say if we are going to lighter poly frame cut slide pistols for carry comfort, why add ounces back into the holster? Add to all of the cost involved choosing something that fits an optic you're comfy with and finding a comfy holster. It all adds time and expense that I don't want or need.

100% agree on sights not needed within 21 feet. Point and shoot. Ok if your threat is a small rodent then possibly use sights

 

thanks for posting

Edited Saturday at 12:17 PM by JustEd

[JustEd]

Just to add, for me within 10 yards a red dot sight gets in the way.

Am talking personal defense. For any competitive event or fun plinking, then use a dot

[pop pop]

At what distance, self defense?

When my event happened, while walking to the mail box, I was within 21 feet of the closest thug. The other was within 50 feet while advancing fast toward me, and another was still in the truck. It started at a much further distance, but very soon got to within just a few feet. Not saying one will ever need to practice self defense at longer distances, but if one does one will need to be doing a lot of explaining when the event is over.

I am not a fan of electronic devices in serious/L-D situations.  Red Dots may/are fun to play with, but! JMHO, and yours is OK also. 

Total familiarity is a must with your EDC. For sure for us old folks. Changing EDC often is something that burns a lot of ammo if you stay proficient with them all. I can see carrying a larger handgun IWB, and a backup in the pocket, however one needs to practice with both, OFTEN. Many carry the same configuration, but the pocket one much smaller. I have done it both ways. Pistol IWB, and revolver pocket carry as backup. Or 2 pistols, one 16 rounds on board IWB and 13 pocket carry. Its a your choice thing, IMO.

Edited to add; I had a 2" 7 shot revolver in my pocket the day the 3 thugs confronted me. Just thankful I did not need to pull it and see if 7 was enough. It was for that day. My neighbor wasn't as fortunate.   

Edited Saturday at 01:06 PM by pop pop

[leroy]

I'll second pop pop's story RE. " Close range confrontation ". 

I've pulled my pistola twice in recent years to calm down threats.  I saw them starting a good way away from me. 

They ended pretty close when they heard the last warning to stop n saw the pistola pointed. 

I'ma guessin in one case about 10 yards and the other about 5 yards.  

For what it's worth.

leroy...

[deerslayer]

On 9/12/2024 at 6:50 PM, Choatecav said:

Many you may have read this as it just came out in the NRA Shooting Illustrated, but it is germane to the topic of this thread.  Hope you enjoy it:

Ditch the “Carry Rotation” | An Official Journal Of The NRA (shootingillustrated.com)

 

Lots of wisdom in that article.  I shake my head every time I see such a "carry rotation."  The only guy who could pull it off is Ben Stoeger.  

[papa61]

4 hours ago, JustEd said:

100% agree on sights not needed within 21 feet. Point and shoot. Ok if your threat is a small rodent then possibly use sights

 

thanks for posting

I used to carry a Jennings 22 fishing, I don't fish anymore but I wouldn't carry a 22 fishing anymore. 4 Stingers at 2 yards and the damned copperhead was still coming. Not very fast but it was coming. Long story short the hoe took care of it and all four slugs hit the mark. Shoot for the head of the snake guys. And carry a big enough pistol. One shot to the head would have stopped it but again, we fight like we train and all 4 rounds went center mass.

I'm not afraid of snakes, except copperhead. And my two youngest boys and ex wife were there. The boys had stepped OVER the snake so it was fight time.

Edited Saturday at 04:28 PM by papa61
added info

[pop pop]

Just as the fellow suggest in the NRA article, I have concentrated on S W MP 2.0 Pistol line. Have several in different sizes. I own 3 Glocks but preferer the SW's. My revolvers are the same also. All 7 shot 2" brl 38/357's. Also have a 3' 7 shot revolver but too long to pocket carry so it goes on the hip. IMO, this is wise. 

That is my EDC combination. All the rest of my handguns are just for fun. 

[Choatecav]

All good, folks.  Just always remember that familiarity and smooth/speedy deployment are just as important as shooting accuracy.  Maybe even more under a stressful, life-threatening situation.