Blackjacks, Saps, Batons, etc

[Grayfox54]

Subject came up on another board I visit.  I know its been covered here before, but I can't find it. 

I kinda like the idea of a less than lethal weapon, but as I understand it, the law in Tennessee is basically against the carry or use of such things. I do own a collapsible baton, but have been told its illegal to carry it. So, what are the rules for use of such items? 

[Spots]

You have to take a baton class and carry a certification card from the class with you. My pops used to carry a sap with an egg shaped lead weight in it but he quit years ago

[leroy]

RE: Collapsible baton.  As I remember, ya need a training course to carry .  That said, look at the " Mean Gene Leather " sap type change purses.  I carry one from time to time.  They are well made and reasonably priced.

leroy...

 

[BigK]

I also like the idea of saps and collapsible batons, but even if legal, I wonder at what point the choice of using less-than-lethal force becomes an even bigger lawsuit magnet than a firearm.

Edited March 9 by BigK

[Pain103]

TCA 39-17-1307 Make carrying club misdemeanor. TCA 39-17-1308 is the defenses which list what has been already mentioned. 

I carried one for several years only really used it to get something that fell under a patrol car or break windows. I always just went to hard hand/ strikes same level. Carrying oc spray doesn't require any cert if I recall and that will make most people not having a mental issue or drug issue eyes clamp down and they typically aren't as aggressive physically anymore. 

[Defender]

I remember reading one time about a case in Tennessee where someone used to carry a golf club on walks for protection.  Can’t remember all the details of the cas neut seems like he used it and admitted to carrying for self defense, and was charged for carrying a weapon.  In another case it was a baseball bat in a car or truck that was used, and someone said if you carry a ball bat in your truck, make sure you also carry a glove and ball, LOL.  It’s sad kinda that less lethal isn’t a legal option before firearms use.

[Spots]

This is one area that had always struck me as odd, especially when the laws changed on knives and firearms carry. You can carry any knife you want, anyway you want to, same with a gun. OC spray and taser are socially and lawfully carried most places, but a stick, the most basic of weapons, cant be carried without an arbitrary piece of paper saying you know how to use it. I wish TN would just go ahead an open it up and allow any self defense to be carried by law abiding citizens, and make the prison term so sever for commiting a crime with a weapon that criminals actively avoided the state

[BigK]

22 minutes ago, Spots said:

This is one area that had always struck me as odd, especially when the laws changed on knives and firearms carry. You can carry any knife you want, anyway you want to, same with a gun. OC spray and taser are socially and lawfully carried most places, but a stick, the most basic of weapons, cant be carried without an arbitrary piece of paper saying you know how to use it. I wish TN would just go ahead an open it up and allow any self defense to be carried by law abiding citizens, and make the prison term so sever for commiting a crime with a weapon that criminals actively avoided the state

I couldn't possibly agree more! The law makes no sense whatsoever. I think we should be allowed to carry a morning star in one hand and a spiked club in the other...not kidding, nobody wants to get hit with a morning star.

[derf]

Carry a cane and get SD training on how to use it. The ADA protects this to a point that even an airline can’t take it from you. There are many that are designed not only for that weak hip, wink wink, but also for self defense. 

[Jeb48]

When I went off to college many, many years ago, my Dad gave me a this big A$$ wrench, about 18" long and probably for about a 2" nut that was extra thick like something they made pre WW-1 to work on a steam engine and weighed about 4 lbs all nicely painted.  I carried it under the drivers seat till after graduations but never needed it. He figured it was legal, but didn't fit anything on the car, so not sure it would hold up in court.  Still have it but it just sits in my shop now.

[LangdoniousRex]

So much less liability if you smoke an MFer than bludgeon them and allow them to live. This is simply the reality of modern law and how it is interpreted.

Edited March 10 by LangdoniousRex

[Jamie Jackson]

Is this the thread you are referencing @Grayfox54?

@Spots is right.

Randy does an excellent job discussing the legality and intricacies of carrying an impact under current TN law. At least current as far as I know.

I still carry a sap even thought the class we hosted was in 2006. No problems since.

But it can very easily run into a lethal force option/situation. 

I'd recommend talking to Randy, even better taking a class with him. But that's just me. 

[mikegideon]

AFIK, I can carry all that stuff with my Kentucky license. The laws are real different here. It's called a Concealed Deadly Weapons License. I don't have to pass a background check when I buy a gun either.

[Alleycat72]

So my pickaxe handle in my Jeep is illegal. Guess I'll just use my shotgun . 

[Spots]

4 minutes ago, Alleycat72 said:

So my pickaxe handle in my Jeep is illegal. Guess I'll just use my shotgun . 

I used to carry a boys axe handle in my truck. Easy sell since I cut trees on the side and usually had at least on saw in the bed. A 28" boys axe handle is one of the best clubs Ive handled

[Grayfox54]

Thanks for posting the link Jamie. Lots of good stuff there. 

I remember a time when the souvenir baseball bats were quite popular. My wife kept one of those in her car for many years. In fact, I have several of them around here. I wonder if the old Chicks or the now Redbirds felt they were protecting people when they gave those out? Of course, I doubt they've given those away in years. Probably considered weapons ya know. 

Ok, so there are very few restrictions on blades anymore. So, are sword canes legal? 

[Garufa]

33 minutes ago, Grayfox54 said:

I remember a time when the souvenir baseball bats were quite popular. My wife kept one of those in her car for many years. In fact, I have several of them around here. I wonder if the old Chicks or the now Redbirds felt they were protecting people when they gave those out? Of course, I doubt they've given those away in years. Probably considered weapons ya know. 

I have one of those old Chicks minibats.  It’s a dandy, unassuming, little thumper.

[papa61]

tire billy's and hitch ball wrenches have a good heft and length. I have had worn down camshafts and large pipe wrenches at times. As long as it is something I would normally have use for I feel fine. Though I do not keep anything in the car now. Rather not have someone that close to me.

[Pain103]

3 hours ago, Alleycat72 said:

So my pickaxe handle in my Jeep is illegal. Guess I'll just use my shotgun . 

You mean your walking stick sir. Just haven't gotten around to carving it down. 

[monkeylizard]

6 hours ago, Grayfox54 said:

Ok, so there are very few restrictions on blades anymore. So, are sword canes legal? 

You don't actually have to hide the sword in a cane. It would be perfectly legal to have a full sword, Katana, heck even a Broadsword. Go crazy and carry one of those Scottish Claymores 

[BigK]

On 3/9/2024 at 8:51 PM, Jeb48 said:

When I went off to college many, many years ago, my Dad gave me a this big A$$ wrench, about 18" long and probably for about a 2" nut that was extra thick like something they made pre WW-1 to work on a steam engine and weighed about 4 lbs all nicely painted.  I carried it under the drivers seat till after graduations but never needed it. He figured it was legal, but didn't fit anything on the car, so not sure it would hold up in court.  Still have it but it just sits in my shop now.

I watched a show about outlaw bikers and it said the ones w/ felony records couldn't carry any kind of weapon, so they carried wrenches, hammers, long screwdrivers, etc. instead. It kept them from catching a charge for carrying a weapon.

I also like the idea I heard somewhere of carrying a bicycle chain with a padlock. I bet that lock would put a hitch in a bad guy's giddy-up.

[Spots]

4 hours ago, BigK said:

I watched a show about outlaw bikers and it said the ones w/ felony records couldn't carry any kind of weapon, so they carried wrenches, hammers, long screwdrivers, etc. instead. It kept them from catching a charge for carrying a weapon.

I also like the idea I heard somewhere of carrying a bicycle chain with a padlock. I bet that lock would put a hitch in a bad guy's giddy-up.

I have been known to carry a bandana with a padlock. I carried a brake disc style lock made just for locking up a motorcycle with a bandana threaded through it in my back pocket when riding. They have a lot of weight and I damn sure wouldnt wanna be hit by one.

[Alleycat72]

My Daughter always checks her tires the old fashioned way. Just can't get her to use a gauge. 

 

[E4 No More]

On 3/9/2024 at 3:40 PM, Pain103 said:

TCA 39-17-1307 Make carrying club misdemeanor. TCA 39-17-1308 is the defenses which list what has been already mentioned. 

I carried one for several years only really used it to get something that fell under a patrol car or break windows. I always just went to hard hand/ strikes same level. Carrying oc spray doesn't require any cert if I recall and that will make most people not having a mental issue or drug issue eyes clamp down and they typically aren't as aggressive physically anymore. 

Ya just have to make sure that you aren't downwind. It ain't fun when even a little blows back into your face.

[BHunted]

On 3/9/2024 at 3:40 PM, Pain103 said:

TCA 39-17-1307 Make carrying club misdemeanor. TCA 39-17-1308 is the defenses which list what has been already mentioned. 

I carried one for several years only really used it to get something that fell under a patrol car or break windows. I always just went to hard hand/ strikes same level. Carrying oc spray doesn't require any cert if I recall and that will make most people not having a mental issue or drug issue eyes clamp down and they typically aren't as aggressive physically anymore. 

When I got certified for ASP, it did not require recert. BUT, when getting cert for OC Spray, once a year, you had to get sprayed. Their logic is they want you to know what it feels like. My response was and still is, I'll never forget the barfing, burning and such. Don't know if it's a local/state requirement for OC cert. But getting hit with a baton to me is also hard to forget unless you are drugged or just numb... lol...
Still got my orig night stick and asp baton.