Do you think Mike Rowe is right about US consumers?

[Erik88]

On 2/4/2024 at 3:06 AM, derf said:

I’ll bite. Our generation is quickly being pushed aside and generations younger have an entitlement personality that requires immediate fulfillment. I can’t lay all this at their feet because of the way we have enabled the younger generations. 

I don't know what this has to do with anything. What generation of people do you think moved all the manufacturing overseas the last 50+ years? Here's a hint- it wasn't young people. 

 

 

[ed Zeppelin]

Less than 25 percent probably more like 10 percent 

People talk the talk but very rarely walk it 

My parents used to tell me always buy made in the USA but of course now that's so muddied up with assembled in the USA etc it takes work to find true made here items

[BigK]

 

On 2/4/2024 at 10:46 AM, deerslayer said:

On 2/4/2024 at 10:32 AM, Spiffy said:

Is the item higher quality for the 10% more or is it the same crappy item from Cy-NA! just at a higher price? Not much difference in Ping-Ping sewing  a pair of pants  and Mary Sue sewing a pair of pants out of the same exact material. 

If it is the same quality (assuming both are decent quality), I'm still paying the 10% to help Mary Sue in TN have a job vs. some third grader in Zingzang Factory No. 38.  

I think the spirit of what Mike Rowe was saying is that all things being equal will you pay more just to avoid imported goods, right? 

You won't get a skilled US worker with a strong work ethic to build something that's only 10% that it costs to be made in China and shipped halfway around the world, right? 

[deerslayer]

7 minutes ago, BigK said:

 

I think the spirit of what Mike Rowe was saying is that all things being equal will you pay more just to avoid imported goods, right? 

Yes, I think that’s what he was asking, and my answer would be yes. 
 

7 minutes ago, BigK said:

You won't get a skilled US worker with a strong work ethic to build something that's only 10% that it costs to be made in China and shipped halfway around the world, right? 

That is pretty much the point I made earlier - only 10% extra is probably not realistic.  I’ll pay 10% extra all day to buy American if the quality is as good as or better.  

[NoBanStan]

21 minutes ago, BigK said:

 

I think the spirit of what Mike Rowe was saying is that all things being equal will you pay more just to avoid imported goods, right? 

You won't get a skilled US worker with a strong work ethic to build something that's only 10% that it costs to be made in China and shipped halfway around the world, right? 

This is assuming businesses would hire "skilled US workers". Sadly, made in USA doesn't necessarily mean it's made by Bobby and Susie craftsman from our neighborhoods. It'll be the absolute cheapest labor they can get.

[Scotty]

22 minutes ago, NoBanStan said:

This is assuming businesses would hire "skilled US workers". Sadly, made in USA doesn't necessarily mean it's made by Bobby and Susie craftsman from our neighborhoods. It'll be the absolute cheapest labor they can get.

This. A thousand times this. 
 

I just changed jobs in the trades and had to stand hard on my ask for salary. This is even after the fact that they said they had multiple positions to fill and were running a skeleton crew. 
 

I am qualified. I know my worth. I asked 15% higher than they offered and you would have thought my meager salary would bankrupt the company. Took three back and forths of me not budging on my ask. Come to find out the guy in my position before was under qualified and now every dark corner I peek in I’m blown away and puzzled. It’s costing them more for me to fix things right and order replacement parts than if they’d shelled out an extra $4 an hour ($8k a year) in compensation to someone qualified.

 

You’ve got to tip your hat to the costcos, chic-fil-a, darned tough, etc that will hire, train, and hold people accountable to quality control, brand prestige and company values. In return they’ve got a customer for life from me and many others. And I’ll gladly pay the markup knowing it’s made correctly and people are paid a living wage for giving decent labor. The older I get the more I’ll never give a company money who openly hates my values. 
 

From a firearm standard if you pay Gallatin TN wages you get Gallatin TN Berettas. If you’ve ever seen the Beretta factory tours in Italy… that’s the reason you’re going to pay more for their higher end products. They invested in their people and retain them. 

[gun sane]

11 minutes ago, Scotty said:

From a firearm standard if you pay Gallatin TN wages you get Gallatin TN Berettas. If you’ve ever seen the Beretta factory tours in Italy… that’s the reason you’re going to pay more for their higher end products. They invested in their people and retain them. 

Dang, I'm not sure I want to get a Maryville-made S&W now.  A friend of mine almost got hired when they opened the factory here last year but something fell through.  I talked with a local gun dealer and he said that there are S&W assembly workers who are only making about $16/hr.  My friend got a mechanic's job at a car dealership and is making a lot more than that.

[Erik88]

7 hours ago, gun sane said:

Dang, I'm not sure I want to get a Maryville-made S&W now.  A friend of mine almost got hired when they opened the factory here last year but something fell through.  I talked with a local gun dealer and he said that there are S&W assembly workers who are only making about $16/hr. 

Companies like this aren't moving to TN out of kindness or some love for our state. They are doing it for cheap labor and a lower tax burden. Our pay here is substantially less than other parts of the country. As long as people keep walking in the door willing to assemble guns for $16/hour, they don't have to pay more. My friend left TN and moved to Washington St where he makes over $120k as a nurse. The same job in TN was paying him $55k. 

[Sleep profit]

12 hours ago, ed Zeppelin said:

Less than 25 percent probably more like 10 percent 

People talk the talk but very rarely walk it 

My parents used to tell me always buy made in the USA but of course now that's so muddied up with assembled in the USA etc it takes work to find true made here items

Your parents were right. Buy American from Americans  Support your local community  

[ed Zeppelin]

I wonder if it's the work force having no pride 

 I get that they don't want to give 110 percent for 15 bucks an hour but on the other hand the newest entries into the workforce are entitled and lazy 

 Yes I see it every day

 I told my son a little advice about his job when told me the place was a disaster 

I said you have to be there for 8 hours make em count and you'll see it will make a difference

Don't be like most and just get by be proud be good and you'll always have a job

 He's seen a few cut loose

[Johnny Rotten]

2 hours ago, Erik88 said:

Companies like this aren't moving to TN out of kindness or some love for our state. They are doing it for cheap labor and a lower tax burden. Our pay here is substantially less than other parts of the country. As long as people keep walking in the door willing to assemble guns for $16/hour, they don't have to pay more. My friend left TN and moved to Washington St where he makes over $120k as a nurse. The same job in TN was paying him $55k. 

Cost of living is way different in Washington ST than TN, he net'd more monies but not double..

27yr Ca transplant from San Diego, I took a massive pay cut moving here and I'm 100x better off

[Erik88]

2 minutes ago, Johnny Rotten said:

Cost of living is way different in Washington ST than TN, he net'd more monies but not double..

27yr Ca transplant from San Diego, I took a massive pay cut moving here and I'm 100x better off

It's not remotely close to double. He paid the same amount for a house as I did in Knoxville and like TN, they have no state tax. His life is quite a bit better there than here. Who would want to do the same hard job for 50% less? 

[Johnny Rotten]

1 hour ago, Erik88 said:

It's not remotely close to double. He paid the same amount for a house as I did in Knoxville and like TN, they have no state tax. His life is quite a bit better there than here. Who would want to do the same hard job for 50% less? 

Not me!

didn't know about the state income tax, kind of odd for a blue state on the west coast.

[peejman]

15 hours ago, gun sane said:

Dang, I'm not sure I want to get a Maryville-made S&W now.  A friend of mine almost got hired when they opened the factory here last year but something fell through.  I talked with a local gun dealer and he said that there are S&W assembly workers who are only making about $16/hr.  My friend got a mechanic's job at a car dealership and is making a lot more than that.

S&W has to compete with Denso, Arconic, Clayton, etc. in the local job market who pay $17-$18/hr for unskilled labor. They're getting away with paying a little less because of the cool factor about building guns. Its only a little more tham fast food pays.

That cool factor will wear off for folks and they'll have continuing turnover at the lower levels.  Depending on how well their quality control systems are set up, that leads to problems and inefficiencies. 

[BigK]

12 hours ago, Erik88 said:

Companies like this aren't moving to TN out of kindness or some love for our state. They are doing it for cheap labor and a lower tax burden. Our pay here is substantially less than other parts of the country. As long as people keep walking in the door willing to assemble guns for $16/hour, they don't have to pay more. My friend left TN and moved to Washington St where he makes over $120k as a nurse. The same job in TN was paying him $55k. 

I've seen some of my co-workers in IT do it right and do it wrong. One guy moved from Nashville to Phoenix and stayed with the same company, working remotely and taking a beating for 2 years before he finally got a local job that paid enough to cover the increased cost of living. I saw another co-worker do it smarter. He get hired in Nashville and moved to a cabin in the woods and made a killing on the cost of living change. Another got hired remotely and is paid a lot because he lived in Miami, then he moved to KY. The company tried to cut his pay based on his new cost of living and he said never mind, he'd stay in Miami. A little while later he moved to KY and didn't tell them. LOL He just changed his address in our payroll app and never told HR he moved.

Edited February 7 by BigK

[gregintenn]

9 minutes ago, BigK said:

I've seen some of my co-workers in IT do it right and do it wrong. One guy moved from Nashville to Phoenix and stayed with the same company, working remotely and taking a beating for 2 years before he finally got a local job that paid enough to cover the increased cost of living. I saw another co-worker do it smarter. He get hired in Nashville and moved to a cabin in the woods and made a killing on the cost of living change. Another got hired remotely and is paid a lot because he lived in Miami, then he moved to KY. The company tried to cut his pay based on his new cost of living and he said never mind, he'd stay in Miami. A little while later he moved to KY and didn't tell them. LOL He just changed his address in our payroll app and never told HR he moved.

I can’t imagine where he lives would have anything to do with what he’s paid considering he’s working remotely. That’s bullchit.

[BigK]

3 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

I can’t imagine where he lives would have anything to do with what he’s paid considering he’s working remotely. That’s bullchit.

I agree, but I have 4X the experience as him and can code circles around him, but he gets paid about the same as me because of the labor market where he lives. 

[gregintenn]

27 minutes ago, BigK said:

I agree, but I have 4X the experience as him and can code circles around him, but he gets paid about the same as me because of the labor market where he lives. 

You’d think they’d be concerned with an employee’s ability and what they produce rather than where they live.

[MacGyver]

34 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

I can’t imagine where he lives would have anything to do with what he’s paid considering he’s working remotely. That’s bullchit.

That can actually create major issues due to wage and reporting laws in different states - so that's probably the reason they want to know.  But I agree - companies should pay for the job being done and if they're hiring remotely should pay the same regardless.

[btq96r]

I think we've been running this experiment for almost a generation now, and cheap goods has clearly proven itself in staying power.

[BigK]

20 hours ago, MacGyver said:

That can actually create major issues due to wage and reporting laws in different states - so that's probably the reason they want to know.  But I agree - companies should pay for the job being done and if they're hiring remotely should pay the same regardless.

I see where you're coming from for sure, but we had to resort to looking outside our geographic area to find qualified candidates and we couldn't hire them based on Nashville wages and we had to fill the position...capitalism in perfect form.

[MacGyver]

18 hours ago, BigK said:

I see where you're coming from for sure, but we had to resort to looking outside our geographic area to find qualified candidates and we couldn't hire them based on Nashville wages and we had to fill the position...capitalism in perfect form.

For sure.

I’ve hired people the world over because they've got the best skills for the job.  I mostly don’t care where they want to live.

I’m firmly of the old Jack Welch school - “on Friday afternoon everyone should leave square.”  The company has gotten good value for their money and the employee has been paid fairly for their time.”

If I take advantage of my employees - or they take advantage of my trust - the relationship just isn’t going to last.

Of course, I’m a small business.  There are plenty of big companies that have made a business model of taking advantage of their employees by essentially commodifying them.  They’ve broken that contract - or at very least changed the conditions of said contract.  It shouldn’t surprise them when their employees don’t hold them in the same regard. 

[tercel89]

I would not pay it. The Toyota truck was made in Japan in the 80's. The newer ones are now made in Mexico and the reliability and workmanship is not as good. I would pay extra for Toyota's to be made in Japan. I have a 24 year old Mazda made COMPLETELY 100% in Japan. I still have it and it's going on 300,000 miles. It doesn't burn any oil at all . I also have an old Nissan Xterra that's 23 years old  (for sale on here) , and it's running as great as the Toyota because it was made as good as good as the old Nissan Hardbody's before them by the same design and engines. The newer stuff is unreliable. I hate to say it but Americans can't build anything reliable these days. The last few things that I know were built reliable by Americans was the Ford F100 straight six and the Bell "Huey" helicopter. But that's my $.02. 

[btq96r]

On 2/7/2024 at 9:19 PM, MacGyver said:

Of course, I’m a small business.  There are plenty of big companies that have made a business model of taking advantage of their employees by essentially commodifying them.  They’ve broken that contract - or at very least changed the conditions of said contract.  It shouldn’t surprise them when their employees don’t hold them in the same regard. 

Labor arbitrage is a hell of a drug.

[MacGyver]

2 minutes ago, btq96r said:

Labor arbitrage is a hell of a drug.

And of course the crazy thing is, there is no line on a P&L, there's no one in any boardroom of any publicly traded company anywhere that says this is a bad decision.  To the contrary, to everyone who cares, it looks like a good decision.

But then one day you wake up - and you've lost core capabilities.  You literally cannot do those critical things anymore.  You get to a point where not only have you taken advantage of your employees - but now your business model depends on that low cost labor because management has looted every last dollar and there's nothing left.

Once storied brands are now shells of their former selves.

And of course consumers are mostly okay with that.  Yeah, we complain about it.  But we also like paying $17.99 for a pair of jeans.

And as it turns out - when 70% of GDP is consumer spending - this whole late stage capitalism thing kind of depends it.