Thoughts on the recent Hybrid / EV registration penalty?

[Erich]

So we got our registration for our vehicles the other day, wife's was $29 as expected, mine is $129 for my F-150.

I don't follow most politics, but a quick google led to a umbrella cash grab under the name The Transportation Modernization Act of 2023. Apparently mine is a penalty intended to replace "lost revenue" from these vehicles that are solely responsible for depriving  TN of funds needed for road repairs. 

My F-150 is technically a hybrid. It was the ONLY way to get the 7.2 kw on-board generator. But with MPG in the 20-22 MPG range, it does not deliver any better mileage than it's 100% ICE brethren. It's a big ass 6000 lb truck, it gulps down gas like a fat kid downs cake. 

But the state seems to think my truck is knocking down 60 MPG! How lucky am I ?!

Looks like a number of self-identified intellectuals at UT and Tennessee Advisory Commission on Intergovernmental Relations (TACIR) misrepresented some numbers, misused statics, and help make some leaps in logic IMO. Leading to a blanket approach that does not actually go after some of the real culprits and instead punishes those it shouldn't. Almost sounds a little like gun control LOL. Graphically they presented this hot mess:

 

So average a bunch of stuff without thinking about it and jump to some conclusions. I still cant get over I'm getting 60 MPG

So Hybrids knock down 60??? Do they though? Published actual numbers from .gov below. Only 2 or 3 of the dozens get even close.

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/byfuel/Hybrid2022.shtml

What am I missing in their numbers?

Seems to me, with their (misguided) logic,  this should be a war on ANY care that gets over, lets say, 30MPG. That would be a good chunk of most ICE only newer sedans today. That's simply modernization, like the act is named.

What about those that work from home that dont put up the avg mileage of 13k?

You gotta love made up numbers!

 

 

 

[gregintenn]

Ain’t the government fabulous?

[NoBanStan]

It's probably work done by interns and someone up the food chain just said "that's great, publish it".

In my line of work I can't tell you how many times I've seen some ninja bullshido figures make it into a budget or proposal. Heck, sometimes it's just an outright lie because it looks good. Often from folks looking to get a promotion or to snag funding.

[papa61]

Damn, average Tennessean only getting 24 MPG? Guess I need to drive my truck more to fill those potholes since 120 miles per day at 30 MPG isn't paying my fair share. I didn't know they were hitting them so hard. Consider this, the average EV owner has higher income level and this tax will not sting them as badly as the working class commuters who drive hybrids by necessity.

[FUJIMO]

Titans new stadium ain't gonna build itself.

Choice lanes.

Private school vouchers.

Raises for gvt employees

Got to pay for it all somehow

 

Edited January 28 by FUJIMO

[Garufa]

The cumulative IQ of the TN State government is that of Forrest Gump.

I get hitting EV’s with an added fee to make up for the loss of gas tax revenue because lord knows TDOT needs more money to build new roads rather than maintaining the ones we have, or investing in other forms transportation, but I think they are grossly overestimating the impact of hybrids on loss of revenue.  

[Wheelgunner]

The problem with asking government to make responsible decisions with finances is that they can require people to give more revenue in the future to cover whatever costs are chosen.

In a private company,  the revenue is what you have and you have to work within those limitations.  It requires a bit more ingenuity.

Consider the Victory Memorial Bridge in Nashville.  It has a flex lane whose direction changes depending on time of day (i.e. which way most people need to travel). That provides the value of two lanes of traffic but at the cost of only one.

We don't need more fees and taxes.  We need more ingenuity. 

[jaytex1969]

If it were mileage based to be fair, it would be ok.

My wife drives maybe 100 miles a week in her Leaf. She will now be paying more than her fair share of "tax" revenue.

[Johnny Rotten]

Carbon Credits paying themselves FW.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Darrell]

Well, I'm going to cut across the grain here and say that I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect those who drive electric vehicles to pay more for the tags, exactly for the reason the state gave, they aren't paying gas taxes but are still using the gas-tax-funded roads.

But  I'll add the caveat that in Erich's case as he states it, there's something wrong. He's getting stuck with an extra tax, not something that makes up for not paying gas tax.

I imagine it would be pretty tough to go through all the possible models of vehicles to figure out some kind of graduated system for paying more for tags, so maybe the state did what they could. Erich, maybe it would be worth contacting your state representative to point out that your particular hybrid shouldn't be on the electric-vehicle list. I might even think of writing to Ford and asking if they'll help.

And on a positive note, I moved here from Washington, and I would have done backflips of happiness with a $129 tag while I lived there. I was floored when I found out how little I had to pay for a tag when I got here five years ago. We live in a state where license tabs are very, very reasonable. So, Erich, just average the tags together and divide by two and it won't seem so bad.

[jaytex1969]

My point was that paying the tax when you buy the gas is, in effect, mileage based and reasonable.

Just slapping an extra $200 on the EV registration, as TN has done effective this year, does not accurately coincide with the vehicle's usage and, for low mileage drivers, becomes a penalty, not a fair use rate.

If they want to do this, then they should cancel the gas tax and add the arbitrary additional amount to every vehicle registration. Then we can all be upset together!

[RED333]

We should be paying by the mile for road use, regardless of what you drive, or ride. Yes peddle bikes, EV scooters and all the like should pay my miles as well. If the latter do not have some kind of trip meter than charge a flat rate.

[Erich]

I don’t think that’s totally cutting against the grain  @Darrell.

The tax base as implemented is disproportionate and based on invalid data / justification. 

TN is doing the as many other states have already had these fees in effect. TN’s are some of the highest in the nation. And the tiered structure is set to increase over the next 3 years. Flat for hybrids, which I read as an admission they knew they are making things up for them and more folks have them (according suns pushback)

I really meant to focus on the hybrid side of it as it’s so obviously ludicrous with there assumed MPG. Their premise to tax is heavily biased by MPG, so it should be fact based. 

Figuring out which vehicles to tax would actually be quite simple. All vehicles sold in the US are required to have their fuel economy provided to the EPA. It’s published data that is readily available, just like the link provided. 

No need to hire a think tank to generate inaccurate graphs. A temp could grab the data in less than 5 minutes.  

I came from CA, my last truck’s reg fee in 2018 was almost $700. I left that state for such reasons. It’s not about the $$ as much as it’s an unfair tax based on the states own rationale.

I think it’s a group that is easy to get voters polarized against. They are the minority and people are not going to vote/campaign in a tax on themselves when they can get ‘those yahoos in dem lefty cars’ to pay for their share.  

I do plan to reach out to a rep with that hybrid EPA link of actual mileage. Since it’s $$$ for the state and others states get away with it, I know it won’t matter, but gotta do it.

 

 

 

[papa61]

3 hours ago, RED333 said:

We should be paying by the mile for road use, regardless of what you drive, or ride. Yes peddle bikes, EV scooters and all the like should pay my miles as well. If the latter do not have some kind of trip meter than charge a flat rate.

maybe tax by the pound since heavier vehicles put more stress on the pavement. I like hybrid vehicles, I think they are the long term solution to pollution and oil. But I do not agree with giving any vehicle lane priority or tax breaks. Maybe our state needs to tax all of the freight hubs rather than giving them tax incentives. They will build where it is most convenient for their interests. Bribing companies to locate in our state has caused the current road/traffic issues, not hybrids an EVs.

nope, I am not progressive.

[RED333]

1 hour ago, papa61 said:

I think they are the long term solution to pollution and oil.

A modern engine put out way less pollution, The US is way ahead of the rest of the world with this. On the EV thing, I want .gov out of them, let private company's run the research. I will get in line to buy an EV when the battery holds a charge in below 0 temps and 100 plus temps and is covered for a life time free replacement.

[papa61]

8 minutes ago, RED333 said:

A modern engine put out way less pollution, The US is way ahead of the rest of the world with this. On the EV thing, I want .gov out of them, let private company's run the research. I will get in line to buy an EV when the battery holds a charge in below 0 temps and 100 plus temps and is covered for a life time free replacement.

I'm a hard no on pure EV. I know Toyota has said they are close on solid state batteries that would solve many of the issues of electric vehicles. I just refuse to sign on to moving the pollution and oil dependance around so that it appears we are making progress. I totally agree with getting @gov out of the picture though. It takes time and miles to lower the carbon footprint of an EV to below that of ICE. Most EVs are being traded before that equalization. If I recall correctly, two years by the average American driver. Therefore, EVs are greater pollutants at this time than EVs. Meaning the extra energy required to build EV is higher than that of an ICE. This is all before the used up batteries are factored in. This doesn't factor in where we would get the power needed to charge all of them. A hybrid with the modern ICE efficiencies you mention overcomes these issues.