New Tennessee State Gun Legislation

[Defender]

20 hours ago, papa61 said:

I agree in theory. But consider this, does the business owner have the right to refuse service? We have decades of civil rights decisions that say no. I agree with Stan, if they don't want my money it's their loss.

Kind of.  Bear in mind that there are difference between civil 'rights' and civil 'liberties'.

[Defender]

4 minutes ago, Snaveba said:

Do they have the right to search a locked container bolted into the trunk, or just the trunk?

I dont think they have the right to search either. But id you GIVE them that right, then id imagine they could search whatever you agreed that they could search.

[chances R]

20 hours ago, papa61 said:

forgot to add; if I leave my firearm and patronize a business unarmed, how many are willing and able to provide for my defense? I have always wanted to ask owners of no firearms notices how they plan for my safety and if they are ready to take on that responsibility.

I remember when the law allowing businesses to ban carry was proposed, the language had security and metal detectors in there. can't recall the exact wording now.

those who feel unsafe around armed populace should realize that most of us are better with a handgun than are most LEO. Not throwing shade at any officers, but firearms training and use is secondary to what most see as their job. When I was in the military, I would come in just under the max time during PT tests, push ups, sit ups and running two miles were low on my list of needed skills. Firearms qualification was always expert, since I not only felt it necessary to my survival but fun.

respectfully disagree with some of your generalizations.  "most of us" maybe, but not the generally untrained, incompetent permit holders.  I'll take my chances with LEO in comparison.  You are responsible for your own safety and are your own 1st responder.  If a business chooses to post their property, you have the choice not to go into that business.  Take the USPS for example, no different than any other business except it is illegal to possess or carry on their property.  Property owners rights must be respected, as is your choice.  I do agree that the carry past signage should be a simple trespass at most.

[papa61]

17 minutes ago, chances R said:

respectfully disagree with some of your generalizations.  "most of us" maybe, but not the generally untrained, incompetent permit holders.  I'll take my chances with LEO in comparison.  You are responsible for your own safety and are your own 1st responder.  If a business chooses to post their property, you have the choice not to go into that business.  Take the USPS for example, no different than any other business except it is illegal to possess or carry on their property.  Property owners rights must be respected, as is your choice.  I do agree that the carry past signage should be a simple trespass at most.

As I have stated, I see both side of this and I agree it should be a leave or misdemeanor trespass. I believe in a property owners rights but I also consider a business as public. It's not the same as one's home and property, you are basically inviting everyone in. We as a people have made it clear that you cannot refuse service based on race, religion, color, sexual orientation etc. There are exceptions based on appropriate age such as R rated movies, bars, tobacco but I do not believe ther should be an exception for exercising one's God given rights. The assumption made is if the business is posted you can choose not to got there. Suppose now that it is your place of employment, your choices are narrowed. If my employer has a dress code that does not conflict with anyone's religious beliefs, ok fine, it's not going to kill you to dress properly to convey your professional status. My office is a stones throw from Hickory Hollow Mall, what if my business posts no guns? Sure, I can change jobs but we have allowed the vilification of guns to overcome common sense in this case. The rally cry is honest citizens are disarmed and defenseless while criminals do not obey the laws and signs.

I stand firmly by my generalizations. MOST firearms enthusiasts are better marksmen than most LEO. Law enforcement has a huge amount of responsibility on their collective shoulders, much of which is not law enforcement. They are by Federal court rulings not responsible for your personal safety. It is their job to arrest criminals. I can't quote case law on this but ther have been more than one. The trend of asking cops to be social workers, public relations agents, dispute mediators and all the rest needs to end. 

[Defender]

8 hours ago, Snaveba said:

Do they have the right to search a locked container bolted into the trunk, or just the trunk?

I am not a lawyer.  But I think they have no right to search either one unless you agree to let them.  Of course, you refuse, you get fired, as is their right.  Then you could try a lawsuit for unlawful termination, but again, Tennessee is a right to work state, so…

[Garufa]

The legislature needs to slow their roll.  

Business owners, you know their major supporters, are not going to be cool with this.

[Defender]

Tennessee’s total system of adhoc gun laws need a complete overhaul.  This ‘defense ‘to going armed is pure nonsense.  Permitless carry is another.  Damn politicians can even make common sense nonsensical.  
This gun buster crappola is another piece of nonsense,  the prohibition of carrying a gun inside a posted business is pure crazy.  Do business owners really believe that criminals see those signs and say uh-oh, a gun buster sign, let’s go put our guns back in the car!   The further we get from the constitution the more we are like sheep, crying out for the gummint to protect us, please.  I mean the world don’t eat all the sheep right?   They get the weaker ones so if we stay in safe places we won’t get eaten, right?  

Seriously, I know some are after true constitutional carry as the main thrust of changing legislation, and while I’m all for that, I think it’s time to start doing other things while we work towards that goal, and rather than allowing liberal newspapers to color the conversation on this most recent bill, why can’t we be proactive and get it explained correctly.  I don’t think it’s a bad idea at all.  It seems to me that businesses or property owners still get the say so on if guns can be carried on their premises.

[300winmag]

Reading the bill text is important.

The bill makes some good changes because it removes the weapons crime of the no guns signs in Tennessee.  Most states do not have weapons crimes for no guns signs, especially for people with concealed pistol licenses or handgun permits.  No gun signs are generally treated as a trespass issue in most other states.

The bill does not force private property owners to allow guns on their properties. Private property owners can still ask people to not bring firearms on their properties and can still ask people to leave when found with firearms.

People forget that some of the state government offices put up these no gun signs, not just private property, and this bill fixes that problem.

If you regularly carry a concealed handgun, I don't know why you would not want this bill to pass. 

Do we know if the state and national pro gun organizations are getting behind this bill?